Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Anouck]

If you are going to look at bigger organizations, it won't take long to discover flaws and bad business. Please, let's keep in mind what the Stormcloaks have done, and those are not even close to the size of the Imperial Legion, nor have they been around for that long.
I don't think the Empire 'provoked' the Thalmor. How do you mean provoking?

You give me ranter. Ranter means that you are going on and on and on about a subject, but this is one of my first posts, so how did I get a ranter rating?

I just asked you a question. I was actually interested in your opinion because I didn't know what you mean. Sorry for showing interest?

Sorry, I'm clumsy. I didnt mean to.

lol. I know all about being clumsy.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The White Gold Concordant is entirely valid if you look at it terms that the Dominion wants retribution for incidents and atrocities committed by the empire.

Not much about the White-Gold Concordat is known, especially all it's terms. I'm not sure where you're getting retribution for atrocities, when the Dominion were the ones who committed such acts during the war.

Which incidents and atrocities are you talking about?

 

[NENALATA]

Ok then.

Dradin, you have made your point and I appreciate you for being the voice of reason.

Besides, I already took an oath to the Dominion in the very beginning so I guess I can't have it both ways.

I agree with Dradin on all points in this matter, as I pretty much always have.

LONG LIVE THE DOMINION​

 

[Dradin]

Ok then.

Dradin, you have made your point and I appreciate you for being the voice of reason.

Besides, I already took an oath to the Dominion in the very beginning so I guess I can't have it both ways.

I agree with Dradin on all points in this matter, as I pretty much always have.

LONG LIVE THE DOMINION​

Interesting change of events. I'm glad to have another mer of the Dominion on my side.

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

Ok then.​

​

Dradin, you have made your point and I appreciate you for being the voice of reason.​

​

Besides, I already took an oath to the Dominion in the very beginning so I guess I can't have it both ways.​

​

I agree with Dradin on all points in this matter, as I pretty much always have.​

​

​

LONG LIVE THE DOMINION​

Interesting change of events. I'm glad to have another mer of the Dominion on my side.

True I have helped the Empire before, however so has the Thalmor in Skyrim. Risking their own lives fighting the cloaks.

I guess that's the point here that maybe I overlooked. It's one thing to help your neighbor get back on his feet, it's another to become your neighbor.

And that's just it. I like DrunkenMage and crew. You guys are alright.

However, I don't share your opinions on everything. My ONLY real reason for trying to help the Empire in Skyrim is because I support the Nords right to choose their own fate freely.

That should have included the Stormcloaks however for people supposedly fighting for freedom, they seem to be taking away everyone else's.

That is, I don't care for Ulfric's attack on Whiterun, I don't care for the Nord's plan of enslaving the Forsworn, don't like to see all those butchered Elves and Kahjits in the Nord Castles and I don't like the racial economic oppression that's readily apparent at Windhelm.

So, I choose to save the Empire. However, I'm not an Imperial.

Furthermore, IF it came down to the Empire or Akavir invading the Dominion, I would forsake ANY agreement or affiliation to be on the wall stopping them.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

All in all, the story seems a lot more black and white than it first seemed...

 

[NENALATA]

All in all, the story seems a lot more black and white than it first seemed...

Story's always been Black and Gold my friend. Now, as part of the WGC, the Thalmor are offering all Imperial Citizens a free pair of Rose-Colored glasses to help with the transition. You just have to pay $2.99 + (shipping & handling).

They come in Regular and Extra-Strength.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I'm still curious on what the mean old Empire did to the Aldmeri Dominion?

Second Era, Aldmeri Dominion is formed, drives back Colovian Armies unprovoked. Third Empire is forming, Tiber Septim hasn't made any move against the Aldmeri lands. Until Cyrodiil is then attacked, Aldmeri troops probing Imperial defenses. Border skirmishes, then in the Fourth Era they stage a Military coup quickly slaughtering Imperial forces and causing them to retreat in Valenwood. Starts funding bandits in Cyrodiil that prey on innocents taking their heads as trophies.

Dominion started all the conflicts, and suddenly they're victims? The Aldmeri Dominion want total war with Tamriel, they can have it. An unprepared weakened Empire stood against them, fought them and defeated them in Cyrodiil and left them weakened and on the run in Hammerfell.

Lets see how they fare against an Empire prepared for war. There is only one force on Nirn that can stop the Imperial Empire on the attack, and they don't live in Tamriel.

 

[Jeremius]

All in all, the story seems a lot more black and white than it first seemed...

It is black and white, on the forums. Playing the game, and I mean ACTUALLY playing the game, as in RPing, the story becomes a lot more grey.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

All in all, the story seems a lot more black and white than it first seemed...

It is black and white, on the forums. Playing the game, and I mean ACTUALLY playing the game, as in RPing, the story becomes a lot more grey.

I am glad it does for you, but the only grey area for me is choosing between Ralof and Hadvar... I do a lot of RPing, but I have never been able to justify joining the Stormcloaks because of the massive amount of evidence presented in the game against it, which I can't just ignore.

 

[DrunkenMage]

It isn't black and white, both sides have their reasons. Both good reasons. Just on the forums, people don't really defend the Stormcloaks properly.

Preferring to mostly deny in-game information, or go "I can just RP this" or "It's my opinion".

There is a lot of things that can support the Stormcloaks. I just don't mention them, nor should I. It isn't my chosen side to defend.

 

[Jeremius]

All in all, the story seems a lot more black and white than it first seemed...

It is black and white, on the forums. Playing the game, and I mean ACTUALLY playing the game, as in RPing, the story becomes a lot more grey.

I am glad it does for you, but the only grey area for me is choosing between Ralof and Hadvar... I do a lot of RPing, but I have never been able to justify joining the Stormcloaks because of the massive amount of evidence presented in the game against it, which I can't just ignore.

Then you are not truly RPing. When it comes down to it, Ulfric has the right to do whatever he wants in his city. The only problem I have RPing in that he uses the voice in a duel. But the racism/segregation? I see that as more about the dunmer being ticked off that they have to listen to the Nords, who are the ones in power, and no longer have any power to rule.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

It isn't black and white, both sides have their reasons. Both good reasons. Just on the forums, people don't really defend the Stormcloaks properly.

Preferring to mostly deny in-game information, or go "I can just RP this" or "It's my opinion".

There is a lot of things that can support the Stormcloaks. I just don't mention them, nor should I. It isn't my chosen side to defend.

This makes me curious, but I have seen actual evidence brought forward in here and destroyed. And points brought up about Ulfric which Stormcloak try to salvage and then really get destroyed. In my opinion, this is case closed. there's no more reason to keep beating a dead horse like this. Just about everything has been explored, and what's left isn't substantial enough to be good reason to choose the Stormcloaks over the Empire.

 

[DrunkenMage]

This makes me curious, but I have seen actual evidence brought forward in here and destroyed. And points brought up about Ulfric which Stormcloak try to salvage and then really get destroyed. In my opinion, this is case closed. there's no more reason to keep beating a dead horse like this. Just about everything has been explored, and what's left isn't substantial enough to be good reason to choose the Stormcloaks over the Empire.

"Just between you and me, a lot of what Ulfric says about the Empire is true." - General Tullius

 

[Jeremius]

It isn't black and white, both sides have their reasons. Both good reasons. Just on the forums, people don't really defend the Stormcloaks properly.

Preferring to mostly deny in-game information, or go "I can just RP this" or "It's my opinion".

There is a lot of things that can support the Stormcloaks. I just don't mention them, nor should I. It isn't my chosen side to defend.

This makes me curious, but I have seen actual evidence brought forward in here and destroyed. And points brought up about Ulfric which Stormcloak try to salvage and then really get destroyed. In my opinion, this is case closed. there's no more reason to keep beating a dead horse like this. Just about everything has been explored, and what's left isn't substantial enough to be good reason to choose the Stormcloaks over the Empire.

It is simple. You like one side or the other. it does not matter what people come here and say then destroy/salvage. The stormcloaks have the right to do whatever they want in their holds because they are the ruling power in those holds. If the Empire had full control of Skyrim and Ulfric was just some nobleman without control, I would agree that the segregation is bad, but with him in charge, it is his right to do whatever, and we here cannot argue the constitutionality of that.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

It is black and white, on the forums. Playing the game, and I mean ACTUALLY playing the game, as in RPing, the story becomes a lot more grey.

I am glad it does for you, but the only grey area for me is choosing between Ralof and Hadvar... I do a lot of RPing, but I have never been able to justify joining the Stormcloaks because of the massive amount of evidence presented in the game against it, which I can't just ignore.

Then you are not truly RPing. When it comes down to it, Ulfric has the right to do whatever he wants in his city. The only problem I have RPing in that he uses the voice in a duel. But the racism/segregation? I see that as more about the dunmer being ticked off that they have to listen to the Nords, who are the ones in power, and no longer have any power to rule.

You have no idea how patronizing that sounds :/ "Not truly RPing"? And it's because it's his city the has a responsibility to ALL of the people living there. Not only that, but if they win the war it effects many of the other races too. Basically all of the non nord shops in whiterun claim they are going to have to shut down and move out.

 

[DrunkenMage]

It is simple. You like one side or the other. it does not matter what people come here and say then destroy/salvage. The stormcloaks have the right to do whatever they want in their holds because they are the ruling power in those holds. If the Empire had full control of Skyrim and Ulfric was just some nobleman without control, I would agree that the segregation is bad, but with him in charge, it is his right to do whatever, and we here cannot argue the constitutionality of that.

By your logic, WW2 and the actions of Nazi Germany shouldn't be argued because it was Hitler's right?

Or other examples throughout history, slavery was the right of a government because they ruled. You can't argue against it. Slaughtering children in Africa is their right, the Crusades was the Churches right. You can't argue against what someone does in power because it is their right?

You have a strange moral compass.

 

[Jeremius]

I am glad it does for you, but the only grey area for me is choosing between Ralof and Hadvar... I do a lot of RPing, but I have never been able to justify joining the Stormcloaks because of the massive amount of evidence presented in the game against it, which I can't just ignore.

Then you are not truly RPing. When it comes down to it, Ulfric has the right to do whatever he wants in his city. The only problem I have RPing in that he uses the voice in a duel. But the racism/segregation? I see that as more about the dunmer being ticked off that they have to listen to the Nords, who are the ones in power, and no longer have any power to rule.

You have no idea how patronizing that sounds :/ "Not truly RPing"? And it's because it's his city the has a responsibility to ALL of the people living there. Not only that, but if they win the war it effects many of the other races too. Basically all of the non nord shops in whiterun claim they are going to have to shut down and move out.

It is also his right to do what he sees fit about that responsibility. We can argue all day about this, it won't change. Ulfric has the right to do whatever. Those that support him have that same right. you have someone who does not like the non-nords, they will have policies more "racist" than the ones who do like the non-nords.

 

[DrunkenMage]

You have no idea how patronizing that sounds :/ "Not truly RPing"?

You have to deny stuff and make up things to be "Truly RPing"

 

[Jeremius]

It is simple. You like one side or the other. it does not matter what people come here and say then destroy/salvage. The stormcloaks have the right to do whatever they want in their holds because they are the ruling power in those holds. If the Empire had full control of Skyrim and Ulfric was just some nobleman without control, I would agree that the segregation is bad, but with him in charge, it is his right to do whatever, and we here cannot argue the constitutionality of that.

By your logic, WW2 and the actions of Nazi Germany shouldn't be argued because it was Hitler's right?

Or other examples throughout history, slavery was the right of a government because they ruled. You can't argue against it. Slaughtering children in Africa is their right, the Crusades was the Churches right. You can't argue against what someone does in power because it is their right?

You have a strange moral compass.

I hat all that you said, but do I have the right to insult Ulfric to his face telling him that he CANNOT do what he wants because he is the ruler of his city? I do not, nor do the dunmer. They have no rights under someone who won't care for them, because in a country/province like Skyrim, the common folk are nothing but ants to the ones who are ruling.