Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Failed Reaper]

Yea, cause religion is way more important then making sure your people have food, shelter, and safety. If Skyrim breaks free from the Empire, they would lose many resources and support. I know I heard in Solitude that Skyrim gets a lot of imported goods from all over Tamerial because of the Empire. All that would be gone if Skyrim breaks free.

And also, Talos was worshiped in Cryodiil as well. Not just Skyrim.

I have to agree basing a decision entirely around the worship of Talos is pretty foolish, and I do see the lose of many resources from other provinces of Tamriel to be a bit of a nut shot to Skyrim.

In my mind I have to believe that what is happening in Skyrim may also be happening in other parts of Tamriel...just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean it isn't happening, or did happen, or will happen. If the Thalmor has their hand in the Empire's pocket, then whose to say that they aren't oppressing High Rock, or Black Marsh, etc...perhaps not in the same way as Skyrim, but in an equally offensive way to that particular province. Again, this is what I imagine and picture in my own mind. It's not necessarily true, but it gives me a more broad outlook on what is going on around Tamriel.

So let's say what I mentioned is happening (even if it isn't), then that means that there are groups like the Stormcloaks in other regions of Tamriel fighting for the same reason, to free themselves not necessarily from the Empire, but rather from a Thalmor controlled Empire. So for those who are fighting a resistance, there will always be some sort of help resource wise to where resources from other regions aren't coming to a halt.

(I deeply apologize for this post as it is long and probably makes no sense )

 

[theoperation]

I have to agree basing a decision entirely around the worship of Talos is pretty foolish, and I do see the lose of many resources from other provinces of Tamriel to be a bit of a nut shot to Skyrim.

In my mind I have to believe that what is happening in Skyrim may also be happening in other parts of Tamriel...just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean it isn't happening, or did happen, or will happen. If the Thalmor has their hand in the Empire's pocket, then whose to say that they aren't oppressing High Rock, or Black Marsh, etc...perhaps not in the same way as Skyrim, but in an equally offensive way to that particular province. Again, this is what I imagine and picture in my own mind. It's not necessarily true, but it gives me a more broad outlook on what is going on around Tamriel.

So let's say what I mentioned is happening (even if it isn't), then that means that there are groups like the Stormcloaks in other regions of Tamriel fighting for the same reason, to free themselves not necessarily from the Empire, but rather from a Thalmor controlled Empire. So for those who are fighting a resistance, there will always be some sort of help resource wise to where resources from other regions aren't coming to a halt.

(I deeply apologize for this post as it is long and probably makes no sense )

You touched on a good point about the Thalmor being oppressive everywhere. Even in Valenwood there are massacres happening, which is why that Bosmer guy helps you infiltrate the Thalmor. Although I don't trust Ulfric, I'd still prefer to join the Stormcloaks. The Imperials are often saying "What the rebels like to forget is that the empire is keeping the Aldmeri Dominion out of Skyrim". Well I've been around Skyrim and I see Thalmor everywhere taking away prisoners. The empire are not keeping the Thalmor out, they're inviting them in. Nord or no Nord, they're the better group to join. And with Hammerfall independent there's a good opportunity to form an alliance and take the fight to Summerset Isle!

 

[Failed Reaper]

You touched on a good point about the Thalmor being oppressive everywhere. Even in Valenwood there are massacres happening, which is why that Bosmer guy helps you infiltrate the Thalmor. Although I don't trust Ulfric, I'd still prefer to join the Stormcloaks. The Imperials are often saying "What the rebels like to forget is that the empire is keeping the Aldmeri Dominion out of Skyrim". Well I've been around Skyrim and I see Thalmor everywhere taking away prisoners. The empire are not keeping the Thalmor out, they're inviting them in. Nord or no Nord, they're the better group to join. And with Hammerfall independent there's a good opportunity to form an alliance and take the fight to Summerset Isle!

That is a good point as well...Hammerfell. Independent of the Empire and therefore a possible major ally to Skyrim.

 

[Unit7]

Personally I wish I could join the Stormcloaks and back up Ulfric full heartedly... but I just can't.

But I just can't get over the way he treats everyone except nords badly. While I would understand a hatred for the High Elves... it's not the High Elves who live in the Grey Qaurter. In fact there seems to be a High elf that is doing fairly well. Argonians are pretty much stuck at the docks.

If Ulfric is too win and become High King he needs to treat the other races fairly. Otherwise what happens when his neglect and hatred spreads beyond just Windhelm? skyrim would just be further divided. Which... doesn't seem to be a good thing once the Thalmor resume their war. If they ever do.

Theres also the big question. What in the Nine does he think he will do once he does become High King and declare independance? Now I guess I haven't been privy to his future plans. But I don't think the Empire or the Thalmor are going to just sit by and say 'Dang we lost. Oh well." Yes you driven the Imperials out of Skyrim... for now.

But the Thalmor are searching for various powerful artifacts. The Dragon Priest masks being some of them. Who knows what else they are scouring Skyrim and perhaps the rest of Tamriel for? It seems they might be looking for an edge in future wars or just in general to rule with an iron fist. Who knows what they have already collected(I suppose this is mostly speculation)

Then of course there are the dragons. A real threat to just about everyone. Not every dragon is going to bow before Whatshisface. So with or without Alduin in the picture... it's just not a good time for a war in Skyrim. Skyrim needs peace amongst itself and divert more energy towards the dragons. Because let's face it. Even as a Dragonborn you can't be everywhere at once. That and the Dragons should be a lot stronger then they are. Not because they are dragons but because... well seriously? All they seem to be able to do is breath fire or frost. Do I really know the whole Thu'um thing better then the dragons? Unlikely.

So.

Yeah. I almost always just go with the Imperials. Not sure if my reasons are actually sound enough. I figure at the end of the day I am just joining the Empire to get closer to the Thalmor. Weaken both the Empire and Thalmor covertly while using my status within the most powerful groups within Skyrim to help me. Seriously. What's a better heist then say... robbing the Thalmor of their control? Sithis would get the pleasure of seeing some of the best assassinations. And I'd make up some story for the Companions and how there is a bunch of glory, and some coin, in it for them.

Once I killed Ulfric I take control over the Stormcloaks and restart the rebellion. Of course I'm still not sure how I'd win over the whole Stormclaoks after I kill their hero. Eh I'm a pretty loveable guy.

Sometimes. I really wish Skyrim had those kinds of options available. It make for an even more epic game if at any point you could switch sides. Be all like 'Hey... um Ulfric. yeah I'd totally like to be a part of the stormcloaks.... again." and he'd be all like "are you going to betray us again?" and I'd be all like "Of course not!(persuade)"

At the end of the day it doesn't matter who you side with. In the end Skyrim seems to be screwed no matter the choice.

 

[Flint firestorm]

That is a good point as well...Hammerfell. Independent of the Empire and therefore a possible major ally to Skyrim.

Nah if I remember my lore correctly theirs some bad blood between the nords and redguards.I think it's more likely that hammerfall will go back to the empire seeing as every third legion soldier I see is a redguard

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

You touched on a good point about the Thalmor being oppressive everywhere. Even in Valenwood there are massacres happening, which is why that Bosmer guy helps you infiltrate the Thalmor. Although I don't trust Ulfric, I'd still prefer to join the Stormcloaks. The Imperials are often saying "What the rebels like to forget is that the empire is keeping the Aldmeri Dominion out of Skyrim". Well I've been around Skyrim and I see Thalmor everywhere taking away prisoners. The empire are not keeping the Thalmor out, they're inviting them in. Nord or no Nord, they're the better group to join. And with Hammerfall independent there's a good opportunity to form an alliance and take the fight to Summerset Isle!

The Thalmor were out of Skyrim until Ulfric stirred the pot. He stirred the pot by murdering the High King of Skyrim. So, you can thank Ulfric for the Thalmor being in Skyrim. And I'm sure even with the Thalmor being in Skyrim, the Empire is doing what he can to halt as many arrests as possible. However, if some of those arrests are Stormcloaks soldiers, then well, I don't see the Empire helping those blokes out.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

This may have already been mentioned, but it's dawned on me that the Dark Brotherhood quest line will make no sense if performed after a Stormcloak victory.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

This may have already been mentioned, but it's dawned on me that the Dark Brotherhood quest line will make no sense if performed after a Stormcloak victory.

Why wouldn't it make sense? If the Stormcloaks win, that doesn't mean that Mede would be toppled from his throne. It would only mean Skyrim is on it's way to becoming an independent province. That still takes time.

 

[Epic Keith]

The Thalmor were out of Skyrim until Ulfric stirred the pot. He stirred the pot by murdering the High King of Skyrim. So, you can thank Ulfric for the Thalmor being in Skyrim. And I'm sure even with the Thalmor being in Skyrim, the Empire is doing what he can to halt as many arrests as possible. However, if some of those arrests are Stormcloaks soldiers, then well, I don't see the Empire helping those blokes out.

But aren't the Thalmor by default in Skyrim? The Nords would never abolish Talos so they had to make sure they were doing nothing fishy maybe? That would explain the Thalmor Embassy in Haafingar and the Thalmor Headquarters in Solitude. Well it's obvious it didn't build the moment Ulfric killed Torryg (Damn Nordic names!).

 

[Docta Corvina]

But aren't the Thalmor by default in Skyrim? The Nords would never abolish Talos so they had to make sure they were doing nothing fishy maybe? That would explain the Thalmor Embassy in Haafingar and the Thalmor Headquarters in Solitude. Well it's obvious it didn't build the moment Ulfric killed Torryg (Damn Nordic names!).

I think what Eleventh Doctor is saying is that the Thalmor weren't as focused on things in Skyrim (that is, rounding people up, making arrests) until Ulfric drew their attention by agitating. I agree that the Thalmor most likely had been set up in Skyrim (with their Embassy) for some years, likely since soon after the Concordat's signing twenty-six years prior to the game's current events. But what we do not get (at least I have not, anyway) is the sense that the arrests and the overall increase in belligerence on the part of the Thalmor had been occurring for all of those interim years. It was a new development. And this is something that again we can look to NPC testimony for (ie. the horse thief and others).

I agree that their main reason for being in Skyrim (establishing their "Embassy") even before things got much more heated and violent has been to keep an eye on the people, and thus try to keep the Empire on a tight leash diplomatically.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

Why wouldn't it make sense? If the Stormcloaks win, that doesn't mean that Mede would be toppled from his throne. It would only mean Skyrim is on it's way to becoming an independent province. That still takes time.

Do you really think the Stormcloaks would welcome his personal guard into Solitude, or his ship to enter Skyrim's territorial waters? Granted doing the DB quests first then the Stormcloaks would work, but not visa versa.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

Do you really think the Stormcloaks would welcome his personal guard into Solitude, or his ship to enter Skyrim's territorial waters? Granted doing the DB quests first then the Stormcloaks would work, but not visa versa.

Yes it would. Succession doesn't happen overnight. And even if the Stormcloaks did win the Civil War, there would still be Imperial resistance in Skyrim. As well as vice versa.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

Yes it would. Succession doesn't happen overnight. And even if the Stormcloaks did win the Civil War, there would still be Imperial resistance in Skyrim. As well as vice versa.

But if you do the Stormcloaks first, then you literally have imperial troops and rebel soldiers walking side by side in the city. It would sort of be like Abraham Lincoln visiting North Carolina for personal reasons in the Autumn of 1861.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

But if you do the Stormcloaks first, then you literally have imperial troops and rebel soldiers walking side by side in the city. It would sort of be like Abraham Lincoln visiting North Carolina for personal reasons in the Autumn of 1861.

I get what you're saying. I suppose one could have their Assassin killing Mede in a way for the Stormcloaks then. I just personally feel that succession from The Empire wouldn't be that quick. I still feel the Empire would try and fight back, even with Solitude lost.

 

[Jeremius]

also after the Markarth incident the Thalmor FORCED the empire to rescind its deal with Ulfric. just saying it is a way to know that the Thalmor had it's hand in a cowardly empire.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

also after the Markarth incident the Thalmor FORCED the empire to rescind its deal with Ulfric. just saying it is a way to know that the Thalmor had it's hand in a cowardly empire.

If the Empire was forced into the action, then how are they being cowardly? That's like saying the Jews were being forced into concentration camps, but did so cowardly.

 

[Jeremius]

also no empire=no WGC and no WGC=no snobbish high elves forcing everyone underground.

 

[Janus3003]

also no empire

Yeah, darn that freaking Tiber Septim, with his Empire founding and his to the heavens ascending!!!

 

[Jeremius]

Yeah, darn that freaking Tiber Septim, with his Empire founding and his to the heavens ascending!!!

This is not the Same Empire, Janus3003. That one died when Martin sacrificed himself to save everyone from Dagon. Thank you Septim bloodline for ruining the empire.

 

[Janus3003]

This is not the Same Empire, Janus3003. That one died when Martin sacrificed himself to save everyone from Dagon. Thank you Septim bloodline for ruining the empire.

Yeah, I'm sure Nirn would have been better off with Mehrunes Dagon running all over the place.