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Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
mast3rlinkx
Active Member
Well, I didn't want to point any fingers. I was trying to give Jeremius some consideration. Just trying to be a good human being, is all. I feel bad about how we antagonized him, to be honest.
nogz
Member
Ulfric is doing the good ol' "if you are not with me you are against me". As far as I can tell if you support his cause he wouldn't care what your race is and if you don't it's all the same. He doesn't seem to have a problem fighting nords that support the puppet Empire. Once Skyrim is united under one banner that "unorganized militia" could turn into a force to be reckoned with. And he has potential allies near him. After all Hammerfell repelled the Dominion basically on its own, coming together to fight the nazi elves is a common goal that Hammerfell could easily get behind.
Jersey Dagmar
Just in time for the fiyahworks show! BOOM!
And what makes you think Hammerfell would even ally with Skyrim? Or Ulfric for that matter joining forces with Hammerfell? Considering Ulfric's track record on races other then Nords, why would he team up with a nation of Redguards?
Jersey Dagmar
Just in time for the fiyahworks show! BOOM!
I'm sorry, but are dodging the questions I was asking. Since you appear to be so well versed in what Hammerfell and Ulfric are going to be doing, please explain to me why they are going to join forces?
And don't say something like this again. The only reason the Dragonborn (who can be of any race) is allowed to join the Stormcloaks is because of game mechanics and Ulfric just wanting the Dragonborn on his side. If he allows other races into his army, why do I only see Nords? I don't see any Redguards or Imperials? Where as the Imperial Legion has Imperials, Redguards and Nords.
So, try another argument. Do you even think before you make a post?
nogz
Member
Dodging? Yeah cos teaching basic game theory on the internet I consider to be a valuable spending of my time. You haven't spend much time in history classes have you? Let's just say "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and be done with it. There are a lot of examples of this through history and even now. Realistically Hammerfell and Skyrim under Ulfric shouldn't have any trouble siding with one another against their common enemy.
And please if Bethesda really wanted to show how much of a racist Ulfric is they could have done it (they tried their best in places). This has nothing to do with "game mechanics", they are presenting both sides more or less objectively, both have good reasons (sort of), both have some bad apples, you choose with which side to ally with.
Lmao, I love the desperate spin on that "I don't see Imperials and Redguards in the Stormcloaks".. maybe cos they are racists and hate the nords and don't want to respond to their plight?? Ever thought of that??
And please if Bethesda really wanted to show how much of a racist Ulfric is they could have done it (they tried their best in places). This has nothing to do with "game mechanics", they are presenting both sides more or less objectively, both have good reasons (sort of), both have some bad apples, you choose with which side to ally with.
Lmao, I love the desperate spin on that "I don't see Imperials and Redguards in the Stormcloaks".. maybe cos they are racists and hate the nords and don't want to respond to their plight?? Ever thought of that??
Ivory
Let's Player
So you admit Ulfric is racist?
Yet you'll keep having this discussion here on the forum but won't take the time to explain your reasoning? And the Empire, racist? If that was the case and they did hate the Nords, why wouldn't the empire replace all the Jarls with imperials? Because they value the Nord leaders who aren't racist or bigots.
nogz
Member
Ivory
No, they tried to make him look like one. It just doesn't work the way they did it, unless you're one of those people that are obsessed with political correctness, they see racism everywhere.
I explained it several times by now, I guess I'll have to do it again. Ulfric wants Skyrim to be free cos he sees the Empire for the puppet that is, caving in everything to please their Dominion masters, you know, the real racists in this fantasy world, you know the ones that despise everyone that isn't an elf and outlaws a religion and has the equivalent of gestapo running around torturing people? Yeah, that one. It's said multiple times and when you finish the civil war on his side too, that he will take the fight to the Dominion.
Why wouldn't they replace the Jarls? Simple, cos that is political suicide, place some jarls that are nords and bow down to you and you control the country easy. Who do you think really holds the power? The jarls or their imperial masters??
No, they tried to make him look like one. It just doesn't work the way they did it, unless you're one of those people that are obsessed with political correctness, they see racism everywhere.
I explained it several times by now, I guess I'll have to do it again. Ulfric wants Skyrim to be free cos he sees the Empire for the puppet that is, caving in everything to please their Dominion masters, you know, the real racists in this fantasy world, you know the ones that despise everyone that isn't an elf and outlaws a religion and has the equivalent of gestapo running around torturing people? Yeah, that one. It's said multiple times and when you finish the civil war on his side too, that he will take the fight to the Dominion.
Why wouldn't they replace the Jarls? Simple, cos that is political suicide, place some jarls that are nords and bow down to you and you control the country easy. Who do you think really holds the power? The jarls or their imperial masters??
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
He doesn't have a choice if he wants to be High King. That's completely irrelevant to the claim that he values Nords above any other race because the two concepts aren't mutually exclusive. I don't even know why you would even attempt to deny such an obvious observation with such a feeble response. The term "Sons of Skyrim" is a direct reference to the Nordic race and it's a term that Ulfric uses interchangeably with the Stormcloak's name.
The Aldmeri Dominion forces that Hammerfell fought on its own had suffered attrition from it's battles with the Redguard Imperial Legions that drove them into retreat to the southern portion of Hammerfell prior to The Battle of the Red Ring. With the total annihilation of the Dominion armies in Cyrodiil they were unreinforced. Even then it took the Redguard forces, the core of which were Imperial Legion veterans, 5 long years to fight the Dominion to a standstill and the province suffered for it greatly.
If the Dominion were to launch an offensive against Hammerfell alone with an invasion force the size of the one it used to invade the Empire during The Great War the results would be markedly different.
This is a completely illogical statement. Bethesda doesn't have to try to show racist practices by Ulfric. They designed the game and if they wanted to they would, and they did (notwithstanding that you've failed to even respond to posts directed at you where it's already been pointed out).
Ivory
Let's Player
For a guy who claims to be well versed in history, you don't seem to grasp Elder Scrolls history. It was made very clear that the Empire signed the peace treaty to regroup and strike at the dominion again. If they hadn't then the Empire, Including Skyrim, would have been destroyed. Nords aren't the only people who revere Talos. It's shown in oblivion for goodness sake. The Empire had only two choices and they choose the right one. Even right after nobody in the empire made a big deal about Talos worship being banned. You hear this from Alvor in Riverwood himself. It wasn't until Ulfric made a big issue about it (which he clearly uses the ban of Talos to fuel his campaign). The emperor had to crack down, otherwise the dominion would have slaughtered more people due to break in the contract.
nogz
Member
Destroyed? Hardly. Hammerfell repelled them, the Empire retook their capital city, both sides were exhausted. The "regroup" should have started at the negotiation table, but no, they caved in and agreed to everything the Dominion wanted in the first place. That's the first step to self-destruction, agreeing to do what your enemy wants you to do. And you can play this "nobody made big fuss about Talos" card all you want, the fact of the matter is that the Empire is letting Dominion agents running around torturing and killing people for not good reason at all. Whatever respect the Empire once had is long gone and it's no surprise Hammerfell wanted out and Skyrim is fallowing. The Empire as they are presented in this game are pushovers, they are accommodationists, they dare not stand for what they used to be and I see not a single good reason to choose them.
Ivory
Let's Player
At this point I'd say "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." but I can see you're clearly choosing to just ignore everything the Empire is really doing. You're suffering from Bias my friend, you're purposely blinding yourself to what's right in front of you, and if you're not doing it on purpose, I'll quote the Apeture Science automated voice. "May God help you."
nogz
Member
Ok, what are they "really doing"?? It's been what now? 25? 30 years?? What has the Empire done for that time? Did they try to negotiate a new treaty? Did they tried to strengthen the Empire and reject the treaty?? Bias?? Hahahaha, what? For real? I deal with facts and I think I made my point, and all you have to do is say "you are biased" and bam, you don't need to argue anymore.. yeah, sure..
Mr1cammando
asdf
You realize that the most brutal and violent war between men and mer happened only a few years ago? It takes time to rebuild citys, train more troops and put down foolish rebelions such as Ulfrics. In WW2, the French surrendered so early on because they were still wrecked from WW1. The Empire is not ready for another Aldmeri war. They are biding their time. They are trying to be ready for the Dominion to attack, unlike last time.
I don't know how many times we have to say this. The WGC was signed to save the Empire. Sure, it would have been braver to light the paper on fire and get the Empire and all of their citizens killed, but that isnt good for anyone. The smart choice is to save what you have and recoup your losses. Hammerfell was forced out of the Empire's hands in the WGC. The Empire had to remove it or die.
The way I see it, the Empire is trying to rebuild and are trying to ready themselves for the next war. The stormcloaks are draining the resources of the Empire, and are making things worse for everyone. The Empire is working for victory in the long run. Ulfric is working for personal power in the short term.
Mr1cammando
asdf
It takes time to rebuild destroyed cities. Many legions were killed in that war, are you sure everyone is eager to join the Legion? The Empire can only rebuild and recoup. It takes a long time to birth able bodied people you know.
nogz
Member
Few years? It has been decades, most of the people in the game are saying 25 but I'm pretty sure I heard 30 years a couple of times too.
If by "saving" you mean becoming a puppet state and slaves, sure why not, if that is appealing to you.
Ulfric said they are going to fight the Dominion, how is this short term? Looks like a long term to me..
If by "saving" you mean becoming a puppet state and slaves, sure why not, if that is appealing to you.
Ulfric said they are going to fight the Dominion, how is this short term? Looks like a long term to me..
Mr1cammando
asdf
How is the empire a puppet or a slave? The Empire wouldn't have a military if it was a puppet. A puppet would be easy to push over, and the empire would not be. A slave would do exactly was the elves commanded. The Empire is trying to take back Skyrim. If the Elves were truly in charge, they would take Skyrim themselves.
nogz
Member
Mr1cammando
If accepting an original treaty that is clearly made to pave the way to their destruction is not being a pushover I don't know what it is anymore..
Ivory
Yeah how about some arguments? Oh right, you don't have any so that's why you resort to this kind of posts.. goodie..
If accepting an original treaty that is clearly made to pave the way to their destruction is not being a pushover I don't know what it is anymore..
Ivory
Yeah how about some arguments? Oh right, you don't have any so that's why you resort to this kind of posts.. goodie..