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Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
123
Active Member
Okay, since if I don't remove all of my negative words for you I'll get in trouble, here is why you're wrong.
You aren't demonstrating any knowledge over how Tamriel operates. Here is a synopsis of the views you have expressed:
1. The Imperial Legion doesn't have any troops outside of Skyrim
2. The Imperial Legion is weak because it's run by Imperials
3. The Imperials could have won the Great War if they had kept fighting
4. Segregation is a good way to get allies
5. Other provinces will help Skyrim after Skyrim kicked them out and abused them
In short, all of those views are almost entirely incorrect, and you haven't taken any reasonable efforts to support them besides running off.
You aren't demonstrating any knowledge over how Tamriel operates. Here is a synopsis of the views you have expressed:
1. The Imperial Legion doesn't have any troops outside of Skyrim
2. The Imperial Legion is weak because it's run by Imperials
3. The Imperials could have won the Great War if they had kept fighting
4. Segregation is a good way to get allies
5. Other provinces will help Skyrim after Skyrim kicked them out and abused them
In short, all of those views are almost entirely incorrect, and you haven't taken any reasonable efforts to support them besides running off.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
Even if we radically disagreed, I'd respect a clear and logical line of reasoning. But this? It's all insults and name calling, with tons of 'facts' based on personal opinion. Could someone tell me if you can report a member for idiocy?
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
Raijin? Every post you've made on this page of the topic was insults about maturity and an other users verbal abuse towards you. 123 is a simple user name. He probably didn't think it was worth the time and effort to make something fantastic and exotic. And if you're gonna insult someone's capacity to count and their age while arguing they're throwing insults at you, you are truly pathetic, I know you're not capable of understanding this, but 123 has some valid points about he factions, and you basically called him a poopy head.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Ulfric is not only a war veteran, but also a politician. almost every single politicians are out for one thing... POWER and recognition. Why should I hold that against Ulfric? Hes a typical politician. I like to give people chances. I want to have the experience of seeing what Ulfric can produce after he becomes the next High king. I want to see it for myself by having the ability to speak with NPC's.
Perhaps he can change skyrim for the better without the Empire control... or maybe hes a giant fluff up. We don't know it because we haven't see it yet. If hes a fluff up then he will eventually have another tongue user like himself walk up to him, and challenge him to a duel.... you know the same way Ulfric did with Torygg.
Time will tell. I hope we can see the transaction change in the future expansion.
123
Active Member
There's a lot more at stake here than how good of a ruler you can be. The fate of humankind in Tamriel literally hangs in the balance right now. We have examined the evidence within game, and it is clear that the Empire is the better choice for Tamriel as a whole. This is because they welcome all races, are more diplomatic, and have more fighting force.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
As reasonable as you sound right now, please keep in mind High King is a political job. Even if he or she need to kick a little ass now and again, killing people has absolutely nothing to do with governing a country, along with the maintenance that requires. Replacing a bad ruler is great. Now wad Torygg really a bad ruler for holding Skyrims agreement with the Empire and getting the dominion to leave as fast as possible. Should you get to run a nation just because you beat a guy in a one on one dual? Granted, I believe Ulfric's actions would have resulted in a Moot, but what if he wasn't voted High King? How many people can he justify killing when they're citizens of the nation he claims to serve?
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
Just adding this. His dossier says that the Thalmor let him go because they figured his war would hurt humans, which naturally helps he,. They basically let a wild dog loose so they could benefit from the chaos it'd cause.
PrisonerLizzie
Well-Known Member
I've played the storyline as both Imperial with my first character and Stormcloak with my second. Of the two, I personally feel that I made the better choice for Skyrim the second time around. Ulfric is a stronger leader and if the Imperials will cowtow to the damn elves then there is no reason to think they won't do the same for him when it comes time to fight against them. The Aldmeri Dominion is formidable and they will need to join forces if they are going to defeat them. If Ulfric is the politician I sense he is from his speeches will know this. How does the saying go? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. In the meantime Skyrim is secure. Racism wasn't an issue is my decision as I saw issues of it practiced or tolerated on both sides. Elisf is a weak jarl and will swear fealty to whoever inhabits her city, I hate to say, she can't be trusted by either side.
123
Active Member
The Empire didn't 'bow down' to the Elves, they essentially surrendered because if they didn't, the entire Empire would be destroyed and humanity would be enslaved. This wasn't about money, it was about survival and stopping the Dominion.
The thing is, Skyrim isn't going to join forces with anybody. Why should the Empire help Skyrim? They just tried to, and Skyrim kicked them out. Why should Argonia help Skyrim? They've been segregated and would most likely be thrown out if Ulfric won. Hammerfell would probably help, but those two aren't enough to fight an entire war.
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
Yes you've repeated this same opinion and that's all it is. You obviously care when people point to the segregation of the Dunmer as irrefutable proof of the fact that he's racist as this is at least the second time you've posted that video in a failed attempt to trivialize it and assert that the reason why Ulfric won't address the segregation issue is because of the war and, once again, it's been pointed out to you that you're completely wrong. He is addressing it. He could rescind it without being distracted one iota from his war campaign, but he believes in it and he continues to enforce it because he's a racist.
Which is completely irrelevant to the fact they weren't doing much to enforce the ban until Ulfric incited them to do so. But for Ulfric's actions the only people the Thalmor Justiciars would be enforcing the ban upon Talos are those stupid enough to do it openly, repeatedly and in their presence like the foolish bard Hadrik Oaken-Heart who not only publicly did it in the only city in Skyrim that quarters the Thalmor Justiciars but did it seven times no less before his own stupidity finally caught up with him. The exponentially heightened pain and misery they're inflicting in Skyrim now is because of Ulfric, not the White-Gold Concordat and nothing you say about the White-Gold Concordat will change that fact.
These incoherent grammatically challenged strings of words don't even qualify as English.
There's nothing for her to do. She's not the High Queen and she's not in charge of the military campaign and, unlike Ulfric, she doesn't have the blood of the victims of the Thalmor Justiciars on her hands.
It's dumbfounding that you don't realize this is the opposite of proof that he has a legitimate claim. The implication of this statement is that he hasn't legitimized his claim, i.e. he has no legitimate claim. It only bolsters Ulfric's own statement in the game that the only legitimate path of ascension to the position of High King is by selection by the Moot.The Jagged Crown
Galmar: "All the more reason then. The crown would legitimize your claim."
I didn't fail to realize anything of the sort. Apart from the fact that nothing I stated implies or provides any basis for inference that I don't realize the Imperial Legion isn't receiving any significant reinforcement from Cyrodiil or High Rock, I'm one of the ones that's pointed it out elsewhere in this thread and have refuted claims that it's not evidence of the fact that the Empire is struggling to maintain order.
I did so because unlike you, my agenda in this thread is to refute false claims about the lore that players have tried to assert in an effort to support their advocacy for joining either side. The fact that I do it far more often regarding posts from those that advocate for the Stormcloaks is only evidence of the significantly higher prevalence of posts by those players that mistakenly or intentionally (and quite often in your case delusionally) attempt to distort or make outright false claims about the lore of the Elder Scrolls Universe in a misguided attempt to support their arguments.
PrisonerLizzie
Well-Known Member
Ok I admit I did misspell the original word KOWTOW. But yes, the Empire did. Kowtow is a SYNONYM for surrender.
Aside from that where are you getting that I said anything about money?
Politics change everyday. Just because they are at war today doesn't mean they won't be allies tomorrow. Look at modern day politics. America has troops fighting alongside British, German and Japanese troops all of whom we have warred with in the past and who at some point we have thought we would never ally ourselves with.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
People usually insist that Mede agreed to the WGC for gold and power. What they fail to realize is they were forced into it.everyone who thinks the Empire is weak in this game, think about this. How did they get this way? Much as you insist the Stormcoacks could swat the Dominion like a fly, there's a reason even Ulfric refers to that fight with the elves as the Great War. All the horrors Tamriel has faced, and they're basically saying this takes the cake with that name. Also, it looks like the Stormcloacks at having trouble with the Legion before you lend a hand. If they can't beat one piece from a crippled army, how can they handle the Diminion?
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Yes having the status of High King is a political job... but it also requires leadership and strength. Ulfric isn't killing innocent people. Hes trying to gain control of his country from a weaken Empire. Remember that Ulfric doesn't want to declare war against the Empire. Hes fighting for Skyrim's independence.
Although he isn't the high king.. it doesn't stop him from acting like one. As far as your question about running a nation base on your strength and combat ability.. That's exactly what goes on in orc strongholds. It's all about culture you see. Only the strong can rule. To become chief you must demonstrate your strength through battle. Once you win you then have the right to marry as many wives, and you are given the right to bare children in your tribe, and nobody else.
Off topic but this is what a High King should act, and look like
Go High King Foltest
PrisonerLizzie
Well-Known Member
seeing as how you couldn't be bothered to read a few posts up here's a quick review:
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
There's plenty of reasons to think that won't happen regardless of whatever the Empire's propensity is to work with an independent Skyrim ruled by Ulfric. Among other things there's Ulfric's very palpable hatred for the Empire which runs a very close second to his hatred of the Aldmeri Dominion and casts doubt that he would be interested in allying with the Empire in any way shape or form under any circumstance. This is especially true given that Skyrim doesn't have to worry about a direct invasion by the Aldmeri Dominion as access is blocked off by Hammerfell and Cyrodiil. It's just as likely that he'll maintain an isolationist stance and simply focus on fortifying Skyrim if war erupts between the Aldmeri Dominion and the Empire or Hammerfell. It's also no less probable that that day won't even come within Ulfric's natural lifetime as it wouldn't be surprising at all if the Empire continues to lack the resources and the manpower to initiate hostilities against the Dominion before he passes away of old age, and we have absolutely no idea if the Aldmeri Dominion will be strong enough to do so either.
I didn't get any sense at all that he's a good politician from his speeches and even less so from his actions. A good politician negotiates and compromises and everything we now about Ulfric with the exception of the peace negotiations during Season Unending is indicative of a man who is unwilling to compromise or negotiate. Further, if you take a certain dialogue path during that quest what Ulfric ends up doing is mind-numbingly stupid for a politician. He can end up giving away an entire Hold simply to get Elenwen to leave the conference (it counts as a concession to the Stormcloaks) even though Tullius will be reporting what occurs to her anyway. In one playthrough I did he ended up giving up the Pale for that concession which results in the isolation of the one Hold he managed to gain (Hjaalmarch), and costs him his only seaport.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
Raijin? The Orc way of living led to their homeland constantly being burned down. I don't know hat life you're living now, but would you honestly be comfortable living in a society based on violence and hedonism. In Markrath, you actually meet an Orc who ran away. She sounded kinda pissed at them. Please remember that your ideal hight king creates that kind of living environment.
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
That's an incredibly naive statement. In war innocent people die all the time and we know that both sides are capable of committing atrocities because depending on the dialogue paths you take during Season Unending it comes to light that the Imperial Legion in one instance and the Stormcloaks in another have massacred non-combatants.