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Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

thatwudbryan said:
*I am an Imperial ROBOT er-der-er-der* *I fight for no other reason than what a piece of paper n what my Masters say er-der-er-der* *We need to send Imperial troops to major cities to recruit because we must survive on numbers er-der-er-der* *We ALL have ROBOT vaginas er-der-er-der* (sorry I kinda had to :p) Jus listen to the way Imperials soldiers n SC soldiers talk n I don't mean accent or whatever BS wise. Stormcloaks have REASON and PASSION. Imperials? *Er-der-er-der* N by reason I mean reason for the cause not some piece of paper
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The way Stormcloacks talk about religion and honor, they practically sound like Al Queda.
 
FullmetalHeart20 said:
No name calling people. I suppose it helps the Stormcloack argument that there's a legitimate afterlife to go to. Imperial supporters just think that it'd be smarter to take the peace the WGC brought to rebuild the Legion. Both sides have valid points. You can either accept them and choose your side, or stop stooping so low because your war buddies were insulted.
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It was a movie reference joke directed at NO ONE IRL., relax
 
Interesting concepts here. Abandoned their loyalty to the empire? The Nords...of Skyrim...IN Skyrim, that place which is not the headquarters of the empire?

If the united nations (no, they do not deserve capital letters) were to "bring peace" to the United States today, would those who oppose them be 'abandoning their loyalty to the un' ? Or, would they simply be honoring their loyalty to the US?

Peace is, of course, a relative term. If you consider people dying under the thalmor knife peace, then I suppose you could make that argument. While fewer die overall, that doesn't help those who do. Is being a ruler about simple numbers? Let hundreds be victimized in the most horrific of ways, rather than thousands fighting with at least a chance of survival? Not in any world I want to live in. I suspect, if you study your history, you'll find plenty of examples of the value of fighting for your freedoms. Today, it is Talos worship. Tomorrow...
 
Docta Corvina said:
And many a proud Nord Legionnaire (and sympathizer) would mightily disagree, recognizing that living to fight another day and turning back what was wrought by an overzealous Dominion has just as much honor - especially since it looks to the collective welfare of Tamriel. The Thalmor is banking on the short-sightedness of mortals and seeks to capitalize on it at every available turn. The civil warfare makes that infinitely obvious.

To suggest that the Legionnaires (Imperial, Nord, etc.) have less honor or courage is actually pretty striking. Rikke and Hadvar certainly exhibit as much earnest bravery on behalf of their land and people as any of Ulfric's soldiers.
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Talk of honor, from the Thieves? Interesting.
 
JoeReese said:
Interesting concepts here. Abandoned their loyalty to the empire? The Nords...of Skyrim...IN Skyrim, that place which is not the headquarters of the empire?

If the united nations (no, they do not deserve capital letters) were to "bring peace" to the United States today, would those who oppose them be 'abandoning their loyalty to the un' ? Or, would they simply be honoring their loyalty to the US?

Peace is, of course, a relative term. If you consider people dying under the thalmor knife peace, then I suppose you could make that argument. While fewer die overall, that doesn't help those who do. Is being a ruler about simple numbers? Let hundreds be victimized in the most horrific of ways, rather than thousands fighting with at least a chance of survival? Not in any world I want to live in. I suspect, if you study your history, you'll find plenty of examples of the value of fighting for your freedoms. Today, it is Talos worship. Tomorrow...
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Skyrim has been part of the Empire for many, many years. It's been of mutual benefit, with the Nords comprising a good chunk of the Legion. The people of Cyrodiil fought hard against the AD when they invaded and much of the province was ruined and very many people killed and tortured in the process. Cyrodiil's experience of the Great War was comparatively intense. That did not mean that the rest of Tamriel - the rest of the Empire - wasn't threatened by the Dominion. And the Concordat, whatever we think of it now with the benefit of hindsight, was agreed to by Mede in the interests of the larger picture involved.

Bottom line is that no one on the Imperial side is saying never to rise up against the AD. No one is content with the terms or the situation. Everyone on that side I've spoken with and heard wants to take them on and end them forever. That cause is frustrated and complicated by a civil war in Skyrim instigated by the Thalmor. That's just the facts.
 
Docta Corvina said:
By such a similar frame of argumentation (I use that term loosely, lol), one could contend that the Stormcloaks only fight really because Ulfric tells them to. That they're all part of a personality cult.

Really, people, come on now. Let's debate, but let's get above all the HERP DERP appearing on the last few pages. It's much more interesting that way. Hell, Dagmar has even offered solid reasoning for one supporting an independent Skyrim. Talking points from characters like Rolff and Galmar don't have to have anything to do with it.

...There were of course a few times on this thread where it all just rapidly descended into memes. I foresee that happening again lol.
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I've NEVER seen a stormcloak soldier try to force and/or recruit someone into the stormcloaks other than by saying "If you know any True sons and daughters of Skyrim, send them to Ulfric Stormcloak." Although I Have seen Imperial soldier in major cities strictly their for recruiting purposes. Laaame. Stormcloaks fight for Ulfric cuz they share the same beliefs as him, Imperials I see more as straight arrow follow the dotted line ask no questions jus do as told type guys. Do I think the Imperials are politcally correct and whats best for Skyrim in the big picture scenario? Yea sure. Doesn't mean I agree with or like their reasonings or lack there of I should say. Stormcloaks are true blue, Imperials I see as robots, jus my take I guess. N jus to reiterate, that comment was mainly jokey more than anything not tryin to bash anyone IRL. Jus the Imperials :p
 
Raijin? The Thalmor are responsible for who they kill. When Ulfric made a fuss about Talos worship, he practically drew the Eye of Sauron on them. Ulfric is responsible for the Talos worshippers who were caught because his actions increased their vigilance. I'd also like to point out again that the Empires enforcement of the treaty is laughable. People can carry amulets of Talos, invoke him in prayer in front of Tullius, and it seems unless a Thalmor actually witnesses it, they will never persecute Talos worship (Heimskr). And way to use Talos worship to deflect from your precious Ulfric's racism.
 
PrisonerLizzie said:
And we know better then to trust thieves which is apparently more then the Empire can say so what does that tell ya
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I'm sorry you've been victimized by thieves, though I can't blame them for going after easy marks. ;) For the record, I have more than one character and they're all Legionnaires - only one thief.

Not to mention, it's strictly superfluous anyway. But I guess this is what happens when we cease debating actual relevant content. :rolleyes:
 
Docta Corvina said:
I'm sorry you've been victimized by thieves, though I can't blame them for going after easy marks. ;) For the record, I have more than one character and they're all Legionnaires - only one thief.

Not to mention, it's strictly superfluous anyway. But I guess this is what happens when we cease debating actual relevant content. :rolleyes:
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Even in court the character of a witness may be called into question if it casts doubt on the testimony given
 
I've never been victimized by thieves...because I knew better. :)

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
PrisonerLizzie said:
Even in court the character of a witness may be called into question if it casts doubt on the testimony given
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So...we're basing the validity of arguments on what our characters do now?

I shudder to think that's the case given the Stormcloaks so often defend the state-sanctioned segregation in Windhelm. :coffee:
 
Docta Corvina said:
So...we're basing the validity of arguments on what our characters do now?

"Can't speak for anyone else, but I roleplay my thief as a Robin Hood type, patronizes the orphanage and everything."

Evidently.



I shudder to think that's the case given the Stormcloaks so often defend the state-sanctioned segregation in Windhelm. :coffee:
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Do let me know when segregation becomes worse than torture.
 
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