Why do some People think Ulfric Stormcloak is Racist

[MF Punk]

I side with the stormcloaks...like 90% of the time. I'm a cloak fanboy and the only flaw i can tell is that yes, Ulfric is indeed prejudice/racist. Or his cause is at least.

Several examples in the game displays this, Gray quarter obviously,once in awhile an elf character will say "the guards dont even help me." As far as how severe it is, i can't say, but they are not going out of their way to harm civilian elves at least.

My hope was, to have enough speech to convince Ulfric to help elves to (Kinda like how you can always confuse the end game bosses in the fallout games), gruelingly got my speech to 100 and failed miserably. You kinda gotta pick the lesser of two moral grey areas.

 

[DdraigGwyn]

FIFY
You must have failed United States history (either that or your secondary school education .

In addition to Dagmar's points, if you think the Founding Fathers were not racist, you really need to read what they wrote, and look at what they did.

 

[Docta Corvina]

I didnt know giving my opinion would anger so many people. I didnt mean it to upset anyone

You have officially entered the realm of Skyrim politics. You're off the edge of the map, mate.

Here there be monsters!

 

[JClarke1953]

I believe Ulfric IS racist/prejudice because his desire is to clear Skyrim of all other's but Nord's. This has no parallel with the Civil War (no state's are trying to secede. No slave's to be freed). Part is because the worship of Talos was outlawed (Freedom of Worship, a problem our country still has), and the rest is to have Nord's only in Skyrim (which is why other Race's and Species have such a difficult time, especially in Windhelm.

And don't forget the Stormcloaks Battle-Cry;"Skyrim is for the Nord's!"

Why the part of the Whitegold Concordant outlawed the Worship of Talos was allowed is because of the Thalmor, who obviously have another agenda, especially IF they have a part of the Dragon's returning.

One of my char's is a Breton, and she often hears that she doesn't belong there, even tho' she is human. Do any of you who have other species/races as a Dragonborn hear a lot of that as well?

 

[Sean]

I didnt know giving my opinion would anger so many people. I didnt mean it to upset anyone

lol, you gave me a "bad manners" just because you didn't agree with what I said.
So, I gave one to you, as that was "bad manners."

You go on to tell people that they hate America and are trolls because they are speaking truth, and would be considered "True Patriots" because they know how far this country has fallen, and would like to see go back up.

I'm starting to believe that you are a troll.

You don't even have anything in your argument that says why Ulfric might not be racist, and your "parallels" with the revolutionary war don't even exist.

 

[zane]

The fact that Beth could come up with such controversy just shows how many die hard fans they have =D

 

[Rayven]

I'm about to give half of you "Bad Manners" for the amount of times I've had to come prune a 2 page thread. Get it under control. Stop bashing. Stick to the actual topic.

 

[Raijin]

Clearly you are meaning me so why don't you go ahead and explain to me how the Skyrim Civil War is parallel to the Revolutionary War in any way, shape or form. Or explain to me how and why you disagree with what I said in my post.

You're are being paranoid. Just because I disagreed with your post doesn't mean that I was targeting you. At the time I was also thinking about the many posts that I read on the Imperial vs Stormcloak thread, and not just yours.

1 . Stormcloaks only allow Nords to join their ranks (apart from the main character for story progression) 2. Enforces (or at least allows) the racial segregation of Dark Elves to the poorest part of his own city He may not be vocal about it, but like they always say, actions speak louder than words. And for fu**s sake, the only similarities the Skyrim civil war has to the Revolutionary war is that one "rebel" force is fighting an "empire" force. 1. The only reason why America fought the British in the first place was because they were not represented properly in Britain and were excessively taxed. Not too mention, the big reason why America even won in the first place was because of the British laying the groundwork (resources, land) and the French stepping in. No similar situation is happening in Skyrim and one of the big reasons why the Empire even exists in the current time is because of Nords. The British taxed and neglected America for the most part because they weren't really concerned with it, as they had their full focus on colonization and beating the rest of the world powers in claiming The New World. They didn't take anyone's freedom, however. The Stormcloaks are fighting because a third party (Thalmor) is forcing the Empire to enforce a ban on a Religion. 2. The Empire does not want to just take all Skyrim's resources, where did you get that? Do you understand the concept of an Empire? It's the exact same as if Skyrim was ruled by its own king, but with a different name and part of a bigger picture (I.E More resources for Skyrim/troops/citizens/trade/protection from the Thalmor, etc) This thread, lol

1. Wrong. In spite of you being the main character Galmar allows everyone in their ranks. It's proven fact from his dialogue when you ask him if non-nords are welcome.
2. Saying that Ulfric enforces and allows the segregation of the Dunmers is like saying that the United States Government enforces poverty because of the increased of homeless people living out in the streets. One Dunmer in particular said that he was poor. Unfortunately poor people in this world and in the fictional world of Skyrim don't have ownership of properties. He was lucky enough to have a place that he can sleep in peace without bandits harassing him for his gold and other items.

The green bold text I agree with... with an additional that the Empire sold Skyrim and her people out to the Thalmor. Their religion was taken away and so was their heritage. They failed to protect themselves against the enemy. What makes you think they can win the next war against the dominion? If Ulfric and his Stormcloak army think they can take down the Dominion then more power to them. At least their willing to die for their cause., and fight to regain back their freedom.

 

[Crooksin]

You're are being paranoid. Just because I disagreed with your post doesn't mean that I was targeting you. At the time I was also thinking about the many posts that I read on the Imperial vs Stormcloak thread, and not just yours.

You came into this thread saying you are seeing ignorant and stupid people posting and my post was coincidentally the only one you gave a disagreement rating to, far from being paranoid.

1. Wrong. In spite of you being the main character Galmar allows everyone in their ranks. It's proven fact from his dialogue when you ask him if non-nords are welcome.

Do you see any non-nord Stormcloaks walking around? Now do you see any non-nord Imperials walking around? Thought so.

2. Saying that Ulfric enforces and allows the segregation of the Dunmers is like saying that the United States Government enforces poverty because of the increased of homeless people living out in the streets. One Dunmer in particular said that he was poor. Unfortunately poor people in this world and in the fictional world of Skyrim don't have ownership of properties. He was lucky enough to have a place that he can sleep in peace without bandits harassing him for his gold and other items.

Not at all, actually. A better analogy would be if the Prime Minister of Canada had done nothing/not changed the racial segregation of aboriginal people, that would be enforcing or at least allowing the policy to continue. He is responsible for it if he does nothing to change it when he takes power, it is his city and whether or not he is there or even focused on it, he still is in charge. Something you either ignore or are just too "stupid" and "ignorant" to realize.

The green bold text I agree with... with an additional that the Empire sold Skyrim and her people out to the Thalmor. Their religion was taken away and so was their heritage. They failed to protect themselves against the enemy. What makes you think they can win the next war against the dominion?

Sold is way too harsh of a word to describe what happened, for the Empire to "sell out" Skyrim would be to give the land directly to the Thalmor, all they did was symbolically enforce a ban in which they don't even follow through with.

Logically explain to me how Ulfric and his Stormcloaks have any more chance to defeat the Thalmor by themselves if they can barely take on a "dying Empire" who doesn't even have any reinforces inbound........ I'm waiting. Still waiting on your explanation and justifiable comparison of the Revolutionary War and the Skyrim Civil War as well, btw.

 

[Medea]

*ahem* It's pretty much impossible to side with Ulfric if you look at the big picture. There's another great war coming, and the empire needs Skyrim, and Skyrim needs the empire in order to survive it. The civil war can only hurt the empire, it does nothing but benefit the Dominion.

While I do believe that Ulfric is a racist and the apparent "bad guy", it's not impossible to side with Ulfric. If you are role-playing your character as a Stormcloak sympathizer, then it doesn't make much sense to join the Legion.

Also, neither side is clear cut "goodness and light". Not even close. That's why this argument continues to rage on.

 

[Austin Chaos]

I don't think Ulfric is racist. But I know that a lot of his supporters are.

 

[Raijin]

Do you see any non-nord Stormcloaks walking around? Now do you see any non-nord Imperials walking around? Thought so.

No but non-Nords, even those who have roots in Cyrodill, are coming to Ulfric to fight against the Empire.

"Sadly, the Empire's stretched a little thing these days, and we've gotten very few reinforcements, so we've been forced to recruit locally."

Sold is way too harsh of a word to describe what happened, for the Empire to "sell out" Skyrim would be to give the land directly to the Thalmor, all they did was symbolically enforce a ban in which they don't even follow through with.


Logically explain to me how Ulfric and his Stormcloaks have any more chance to defeat the Thalmor by themselves if they can barely take on a "dying Empire" who doesn't even have any reinforces inbound........ I'm waiting. Still waiting on your explanation and justifiable comparison of the Revolutionary War and the Skyrim Civil War as well, btw.

It maybe harsh but that's exactly what the Empire did when they signed the treaty to the Thalmor.

"Skyrim is the birthplace of humanity. The birthplace of honor. And those snowbacked Imperials renounced both when they laid down before the Thalmor. Worst still, to pay for the privilege to keep his throne, the Emperor sells skyrim and our very gods- Talos, no less! -To the damn elves.

I can't logically explain this to you that will fit well with the lore. I will have to wait in time for when Bethesda releases the expansion (The Great war part 2) to the public to answer you that question. The fact is Ulfric has something up his sleeve (If the Stormcloaks wins the Civil war) and the only way we can truly figure it out is if we wait for the expansion.

 

[Crooksin]

No but non-Nords, even those who have roots in Cyrodill, are coming to Ulfric to fight against the Empire.

Thanks, thats all I needed to hear. They may be trying to join his cause but he certainly hasn't allowed them evident by the lack of them in the Stormcloak ranks. Can't refute that.

"Sadly, the Empire's stretched a little thing these days, and we've gotten very few reinforcements, so we've been forced to recruit locally."

Stop referencing quotes that only help my argument in regards to how the Stormcloaks have absolutely no chance against the Thalmor when they are struggling against an Empire like that. Oh wait, no, keep doing so, thank you.

It maybe harsh but that's exactly what the Empire did when they signed the treaty to the Thalmor.

"Skyrim is the birthplace of humanity. The birthplace of honor. And those snowbacked Imperials renounced both when they laid down before the Thalmor. Worst still, to pay for the privilege to keep his throne, the Emperor sells skyrim and our very gods- Talos, no less! -To the damn elves.

No doubt Skyrim got the worst end of the treaty but that "worst end" is barely an end at all. Considering the entirety of the Empire was on the verge of extinction and all it took was for one Religious belief to be very loosely banned, I think everyone got off a little easy. In any case, far from "selling out Skyrim".

Btw, quoting a obviously over-zealous patriotic and bias Stormcloak character doesn't help you prove anything.

I can't logically explain this to you that will fit well with the lore. I will have to wait in time for when Bethesda releases the expansion (The Great war part 2) to the public to answer you that question. The fact is Ulfric has something up his sleeve (If the Stormcloaks wins the Civil war) and the only way we can truly figure it out is if we wait for the expansion.

Lol.

 

[Haru17]

Well, they are both fighting revolutions, but there's where the parallels end.

 

[Raijin]

Thanks, thats all I needed to hear. They may be trying to join his cause but he certainly hasn't allowed them evident by the lack of them in the Stormcloak ranks. Can't refute that.

That doesn't mean anything. Perhaps many that tried joining did not pass (either by bailing out or dying) the test given by Galmar prior to officially joining up with the Stormcloaks. Killing an Ice wraith on a low leveling player can be a bitch, especially on masters. 1 bite or 2 equals an instant death. Like what Galmar said "I'm sending you to Serpentstone Island. If you survive, you pass. If you die, well, you weren't going to be much use to me anyway."

Stop referencing quotes that only help my argument in regards to how the Stormcloaks have absolutely no chance against the Thalmor when they are struggling against an Empire like that. Oh wait, no, keep doing so, thank you.

Where do you get the notion that the Stormcloaks are struggling? It's the OTHER way around. Nice try on switching things because it didn't work. It's taking forever for the Empire to get back on their feet. While their taking their sweet ass time their people are dying and being imprisoned by their elven masters over the damn peace treaty that they unnecessarily signed.

Do you know what happens to elves when they push Nords to the edge?

"It was also the site of terrible bloodshed, when the elves attempted to drive the Nords out of Skyrim, to succeed only in incurring their wrath in the form of Ysgramor and his fabled Five Hundred Companions, who swept the elves from Skyrim and firmly established it as the home of the Nords." - Night of tears Lore:Night of Tears (book) - UESPWiki

History might repeat it's self.

No doubt Skyrim got the worst end of the treaty but that "worst end" is barely an end at all. Considering the entirety of the Empire was on the verge of extinction and all it took was for one Religious belief to be very loosely banned, I think everyone got off a little easy. In any case, far from "selling out Skyrim".

Of course Skyrim got screwed over this treaty.That's why Nords like Galmar and Ulfric (Both former legionaries) wants Skyrim's independence to free their people from the shackles of the dying Empire... and to invalidate Skyrim's involvement with the White-Gold Concordat. God off a little easy you say? When you go to Sovngarde search for Hadrik Oaken-Heart, and tell him that as he can tell you his story about how the Thalmor kidnapped him at night for doing nothing but to sing about Talos.

Btw, quoting a obviously over-zealous patriotic and bias Stormcloak character doesn't help you prove anything.

Lol.

That's why you have a problem with me quoting things.

 

[Shadow King]

ulfrics ultra racist. look at the poor argonians outside the city walls. i like to get high on skooma and tree sap and kill stormcloaks its a fav past time

 

[Punz]

I'm about to give half of you "Bad Manners" for the amount of times I've had to come prune a 2 page thread. Get it under control. Stop bashing. Stick to the actual topic.

Like a boss!!!

 

[Crooksin]

That doesn't mean anything. Perhaps many that tried joining did not pass (either by bailing out or dying) the test given by Galmar prior to officially joining up with the Stormcloaks. Killing an Ice wraith on a low leveling player can be a bitch, especially on masters. 1 bite or 2 equals an instant death. Like what Galmar said "I'm sending you to Serpentstone Island. If you survive, you pass. If you die, well, you weren't going to be much use to me anyway.

So what you're saying is that all these vast amounts of non-Nords you claim are coming from far and wide to join Ulfric have never managed to pass the initiation test but countless Nords have been able to do it? Because there are no non-Nords than they must all be weak and couldn't pass the test? Lmao, that was a stretch and you know it.

Where do you get the notion that the Stormcloaks are struggling? It's the OTHER way around. Nice try on switching things because it didn't work. It's taking forever for the Empire to get back on their feet. While their taking their sweet ass time their people are dying and being imprisoned by their elven masters over the damn peace treaty that they unnecessarily signed.

From what I can tell, and I'm sure everyone else here as well, is that at the start of the game before any Dragonborn interaction with either faction, its a complete stalemate and it will stay like that until the player chooses a side. Now, if the Stormcloaks weren't struggling and the Empire was only hanging on by a thread, then why is the war in a stalemate and not a one-sided Stormcloak victory? Because they are even in terms of power, and if the Empire is dying and struggling then the Stormcloaks are certainly as well.

Of course Skyrim got screwed over this treaty.That's why Nords like Galmar and Ulfric (Both former legionaries) wants Skyrim's independence to free their people from the shackles of the dying Empire... and to invalidate Skyrim's involvement with the White-Gold Concordat. God off a little easy you say? When you go to Sovngarde search for Hadrik Oaken-Heart, and tell him that as he can tell you his story about how the Thalmor kidnapped him at night for doing nothing but to sing about Talos.

Like I've said way back, I can understand the Stormcloaks cause but not the results of it. In the bigger picture, its not helping anyone and only makes every party involved weaker except for the Thalmor.

Its funny how you refer to citizens of Skyrim's as Ulfrics when the Stormcloaks aren't even the majority in the country. If Skyrim wanted this, then they would be. He's fighting his own people with misplaced blame when he should be taking the fight to the Thalmor.

For the people that became victims to the Thalmor, well they can say hello to all the innocent women and children Ulfric slaughtered while there in Sovngarde as well. In other words, casualties of war.

That's why you have a problem with me quoting things.

Not a problem at all... when they are credible. Trying to convince me that the Stormcloaks have any chance against the Thalmor after they defeat the Empire by quoting their over-zealous and patriotic second in command is like me trying to convince you Islam is a good religion by quoting Al-Quada.

 

[Spiral Power!]

While I do believe that Ulfric is a racist and the apparent "bad guy", it's not impossible to side with Ulfric. If you are role-playing your character as a Stormcloak sympathizer, then it doesn't make much sense to join the Legion.

Also, neither side is clear cut "goodness and light". Not even close. That's why this argument continues to rage on.

If you reread my post I said, "If you look at the big picture." While its true that you could sympathize with the rebels cause, and you may agree with what they stand for; if you are informed enough about the reality of the situation, the only correct answer is to side with the empire.

If you choose to side with the rebels, you are quite literally

Spoiler

helping to doom/destroy the entire mortal world.

I'll explain it again in spoiler tags.

Spoiler

The Thalmor's goal is to destroy the "towers" that separate Mundus from Oblivion/Aetherius because they believe that by doing so they will "be with the gods." The Great War wasn't actually about the elves believing that Talos isn't a god, they know he is a god. The very reason they started the war was because they knew. Their goal is to halt the worship of Talos, because by doing so this would make him cease to exist. The Thalmor are using the entire issue of of Talos worship to further their goals. Their first goal is to destroy Talos, which will be accomplished somewhat by making worship illegal. Secondly, it weakens the empire as a whole because it started the civil war.

Only the empire is losing troops in the civil war. The Dominion wants this. They started the civil war by planting Ulfric as a sleeper agent to do just that. If the empire wins the war, the Thalmor gain because the empire lost troops doing it. If the rebels win, the Thalmor gain because the empire lost troops and the entire nation of Skyrim, which is a fatally crippling loss. But the best scenario for the Thalmor is if both sides lose as many men and women as possible, making the empire and skyrim weaker when the next war begins.

The only way to "win" is to minimize the number of casualties and keep the empire as strong as possible. That means NOT losing Skyrim. If the empire loses, the elves win. If the elves win, mundus will be destroyed, because the entire goal of the Thalmor (and thus the Dominions) is to destroy the towers that keep mundus existing away from Oblivion, and by them defeating the empire they will inevitably accomplish that goal.

Thus, if you know all of this, it is impossible in good judgement to side with the rebels, because doing so only furthers the Thalmor goals of weakening the empire and eventually destroying mundus.

The rebellions goal of legalizing Talos worship again is a good one to be sure. However, the moment the Dominion declares war the White-Gold Concordant (which prevents the worship of Talos) will be void, thus assuring Talos worship continues.

Thus, in the war between the empire and the dominion is actually a war between saving and destroying mundus. The dominion already has an advantage on the empire, in order to save mundus everything must be done to strengthen the empire. Even a united empire couldn't win against the dominion the first time. The empire has already lost a significant portion of its power by losing the provinces. The only way to save Mundus is to keep the empire as strong as possible so that it can defeat the dominion and stop the Thalmor from destroying mundus.

Thus, when looking at the BIG picture, especially from the point of view of the Dragonborn (who goes on a quest to save the world, siding with the empire is the only correct choice. Siding with the rebels helps doom the world. Siding with the imperials helps save it.

EDIT: Also, straight from the horse's mouth

Spoiler

"Fate

Ulfric can be killed during the Civil War if the Dragonborn chooses to side with the Empire. After the Battle for Windhelm, the Dragonborn storms his throne room, and he requests that the Dragonborn will kill him, as "it will make for a better song". Upon death, he can be encountered in Sovngarde as a specter, interestingly regretting his belligerent actions against the Empire due to how it only weakend Skyrim and strengthened the Thalmor"

Taken from elderscrolls.wikia.com

 

[Shadow King]

the only sympathy u can really give the stormcloaks is that they have been told to not worship talos and that it is illegal. if ulfric and his merry men had half a brain they would relise the thalmor pretty much bullied the law to outlaw talos worship do u actualy think the empire want to turn away from talos no he is the empires chosen god before all the others they worshipped him for obvios reasons ulfric knows that the empire had to give into they pointed eard scum just for the meantime. ulfric just wants the throne power hungry dog that he is. and imperials dont enforce the law like they should as written in the treaty what about whiterun the monk i fogot his name shouting at the top of his lungs why isnt he arrested and the statue there and the one in riften raised to the ground because the empire dont give a fook and thts why so many thalmor have been sent to make sure the treaty is upheld