Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Raijin]

LOL I didn't know that Snow Elves were capable of asexual reproduction.

Makes them so much more awesome now!

Who says that theirs only 1 snow elf left in the world? Theirs a possibility that theirs more out there.

 

[Doctor Langstrom]

To the blazing with the Dark elves! I prefer Snow elves instead The Snow elves will rise up. It's matter of time.

Pfffft, Khajiit for the win.

 

[feliciano182]

True and correct on all counts... yet it is also completely wrong. The General, as Ozan has reminded, is passive. A cunning Colovian, no doubt here. But because he does not value every minor victory or every minor victory, he can easily lose everything altogether.

Well, I guess that really depends on the Dragonborn at this point to be able turn the tide of the war or not.

For my part, another issue I can find here, it's that even if Tullius wins, he still assumes the same role, he doesn't become statesman, noble, Jarl or High King of Skyrim, while Ulfric deffinitely does, as such, this becomes a problem, because Ulfric is a plopsty politician.

The Jarl listens to the General, his word affects her decision. Should he propose she allows Khajiit to appeal to those already think Ulfric is racist, this would strengthen such beliefs. Ulfric oppresses Dunmer, Argonian, and others. He does not allow Khajiit in the cities either when others do, how does Ulfric display progress and social advancement then?

He would lose support of Jarl's who are still racist, but against Ulfric though, that's something to consider.

As for Ulfric, he doesn't have to demonstrate anything to his followers but commitment to the cause of "true nords".

The fur ridden Galmar who also wears bear skin ((Kek)) is perhaps impulsive but ultimately, Ulfric would have spared Khajiit. Probably wouldn't accept Khajiit with open arms, but probably wouldn't care if Khajiit were let go.

And how do you know ? I mean, there's really nowhere to pull this assumption from.

In addition, if the Empire really is a coalition, what's the point? Hammerfell given to Altmer? Morrowind conquered by filthy Argonian? Valenwood and Elsweyr also part of the Dominion? Terrible coalition. Only Daggerfell and Cyrodiil left,maybe Skyrim.

Being a coalition doesn't mean one is invincible, also, we can talk all we want about Hammerfell IF we acknowledge proper context, The Empire had taken a significant risk re-taking the Imperial City with barely a thousand men, and after that, there wasn't much of an army out there, what choice did they have ? Thirty years of endless war ? Thirty years of massacre without ever knowing how things would end ? Or play it safe, regain your strength and face your enemy with better standing ?

The Empire is weakest now. All because of a man's lack of winning a war 30 years ago.

Like it or not, the WGC saved countless lives.

 

[Ozan]

Like it or not, the WGC saved countless lives.

Oh? Those taken away in the middle of the night, the Redguard who struggle and resist, the Stormcloak and the Colovian who fight over Skyrim? The Concordat was not altered when first proposed. Many believe they could still fight. If Nord fighters wished to trade death and horrors amongst Elf types, who is Ozan to disagree? The true irony is the war was turning before the Concordat was signed. The Colovian failed to maintain his tenacity, choosing to allow victory to those who've plotted and stole.

On a separate note, it bothers Ozan... no soul viewed them as a threat? Why? The Aldmeri dominion claimed Valenwood and Elsweyr for themselves and the Colovian allowed this and never suspected the Elf type to take more? The Colovian didn't think to strengthen their borders against a rising nation?

Ozan pities not the Colovian Empire but their people. The Colovian is not observant.

Back to the Skyrim conflict, however. Ozan has seen the Colovian as unreliable and unworthy in the past. And the Stormcloak? Many Stormcloak were former Legion. How many Legion were former Stormcloak?

Perhaps those who look upon the Stormcloak see a disruption of the status quo. Perhaps they see deceit. But Ozan sees men getting executed and he hears the dead were made so because one man challenged another to a duel and won. If he had lost, would the High King be a murderer?

 

[Seanu Reaves]

The Aldmeri dominion claimed Valenwood and Elsweyr for themselves.

Elsweyr jumped into the dominion when the Aldmeri helped them... The Khajiits basically asked to join... Khajiits love thalmor

 

[Ozan]

Ah, yes. Ozan has heard this tidbit. Khajiit are grateful, even Ozan acknowledges this. However, his upbringing taught him never to trust the Elf type, particularly the Bosmer. The Altmer are viewed as saviors, but even in the harshest of disasters can a murderer be king.

To claim is one thing, to earn absolute trust is another. Ozan pities his fellow Khajiit for Elsweyr is surrounded by enemies and filth and profiteers.

However, despite the Mane and brother and sister Khajiit joining, the land was removed from the empire. Conquest through assimilation.

 

[feliciano182]

Oh? Those taken away in the middle of the night, the Redguard who struggle and resist, the Stormcloak and the Colovian who fight over Skyrim? The Concordat was not altered when first proposed.

Hence why it was rejected the first time, however, once the enemy was faced, and the consequences known to The Empire, they made a strategic choice that saved every province in The Empire with the exception of Hammerfell.

Granted, it probably wasn't the best decision in the long run, but I don't blame people for choosing peace instead of war, specially a war that could've lasted for decades, it's one thing to kick the Aldmeri Dominion out of Hammerfell, it's a very very VERY different thing to take the fight to Summerset Isles (after conquering Elsweyr and Valenwood) and defeating them there, and that was something that after The Great War no one could've done.

Many believe they could still fight. If Nord fighters wished to trade death and horrors amongst Elf types, who is Ozan to disagree? The true irony is the war was turning before the Concordat was signed. The Colovian failed to maintain his tenacity, choosing to allow victory to those who've plotted and stole.

What if I don't want to fight ? Why should I be dragged into a massacre ? Just because some backwards Talos-loving barbarian is itching to sate his bloodlust ? What about those that can't fight ? What about the soldiers who had just taken The Imperial City in a battle against all odds ? How was this war going to be won ? Who has going to lend the soldiers and resources necessary to take it through half of Tamriel to the doorstep of The Thalmor in the Summerset Isles ?

On a separate note, it bothers Ozan... no soul viewed them as a threat? Why? The Aldmeri dominion claimed Valenwood and Elsweyr for themselves and the Colovian allowed this and never suspected the Elf type to take more? The Colovian didn't think to strengthen their borders against a rising nation?

Obviously, The Empire was careless as a whole at some points, many attribute this to the decay of the courts in Cyrodiil, or the lack of a ruling Septim on the throne, regardless, I don't think anyone else could've fared better, The Thalmor played their move very well with the hidden camps in Elsweyr, their attack and strategy was swift and staggering, they were not an easy enemy.

Regardless, how does this benefit the Stormcloak argument ? How is a naturally exclusive, insular army under a banner of race and tradition supposed to save Tamriel from the Thalmor threat ?

I mean, if this was not a videogame, and there wasn't "an obligation" to satisfy the player who chose other than The Empire, then the stormcloaks wouldn't stand a single chance against The Thalmor (I speak as if upcoming DLC was meant to resolve this).

Perhaps those who look upon the Stormcloak see a disruption of the status quo. Perhaps they see deceit. But Ozan sees men getting executed and he hears the dead were made so because one man challenged another to a duel and won. If he had lost, would the High King be a murderer?

The Stormcloaks don't execute people ? That's something to ponder, and something we can't deny simply because there's no direct evidence of it, maybe they don't publicly execute people as often as The Legion does, but they sure don't care about people who disagree with their cause, as Galmar Stone-Fist so well puts it.

As for the duel part, it's irrelevant, the High King would've acted in self-defense, since he had not instigated any attack, however, Ulfric admits to knowing his shouting put him in a position not of advantage, but of assured success, he knew the Thu'um was powerful enough to kill Torygg, and that's why it's murder, he walked right through Solitude with the intention of leaving a corpse in the city's court.

 

[DovahChick]

Da fu** is a Nord Imperial? You mean Nords that joined with the Legion? Well, I would argue that only Stormcocks being there would be because that's game mechanics. I haven't played in awhile, so I honestly can't remember if Nords who joined the Legion are there are not. Perhaps the educated Legionnaire Nords aren't there because they actually know how to fight in a war and don't get themselves killed.

Clearly the Dunmer and Argonians have zero fu**s to give about the Nords.

Stormcloak is a lame name. I prefer Stormcock.

The Greybeards saw Ulfric for what he is and told him to GTFO.

Your reasons are petty and hilarious.

You are NOT welcome.

Ulfric left the greybeards

 

[DovahChick]

Don't get annoyed this is an argument thread where you give your option and then people correct you thats all
and you were also being quite nasty to Docta Corvina which in my opinion is a little stupid to do if you don't want people being nasty to you

I was only saying those things coz I was tired and annoied at her. Sorry if it came off the wrong way. I still believe she was getting a little too serious b4 I was. Merry Christmas!

 

[Lifts-Her-Tail]

I was only saying those things coz I was tired and annoied at her. Sorry if it came off the wrong way. I still believe she was getting a little too serious b4 I was. Merry Christmas!

Well there was still no need to be like that and I personally don't think Docta was doing anything wrong

 

[Crooksin]

I was only saying those things coz I was tired and annoied at her. Sorry if it came off the wrong way. I still believe she was getting a little too serious b4 I was. Merry Christmas!

 

[DovahChick]

Well there was still no need to be like that and I personally don't think Docta was doing anything wrong

Did'nt I just say I in a bad mood and really needed to express my feelings (even though I was a bit mean). Iwas trying to express my point in my way (when I am in a bad mood). I did tell docta I was tired after a while and she still didnt consider why I might be acting so, aggressive. I am not usually like this. Yet again I appologize.

 

[DovahChick]

And please dont insult my intellegence by calling me stupid.

 

[Lifts-Her-Tail]

Well maybe as a bit of advise, don't come on here when your in an aggressive mood as then people might not insult your intelligence and also it might save an argument starting

 

[DovahChick]

Well maybe as a bit of advise, don't come on here when your in an aggressive mood as then people might not insult your intelligence and also it might save an argument starting

When I sterted talking I wasnt in a abad mood, it was half way through when I heard some, well some news. I was always taught to finish what you started so I did that, dispite my bad mood.

 

[Lifts-Her-Tail]

You know what I just can't be bothered with you, I gave you advise, but you don't seem to want to take it so I'll leave you be

 

[DovahChick]

You know what I just can't be bothered with you, I gave you advise, but you don't seem to want to take it so I'll leave you be

Thank you.

 

[Raijin]

Ulfric left the greybeards

That's correct. Ulfric couldn't stand what was going on down below and had to do something. He joined the Imperial legion to fight the elves in the Great war.

 

[Anouck]

What is the difference between the Imperials and the Stormcloaks? I thought I knew it but I got very confused after reading all this ..

So the Imperials support the empire? Does that mean they also support the Aldmeri Dominion? And the banning of worshipping Talos? And how about the Stormcloacks? they appear to be against the Dominion but everyone calls them racist? I have no clue what side to pick. And until I know I guess I will have to stick with pickpocketing Nazeem and dragging him to the cloud district..

 

[feliciano182]

Oh Ozan ! Where are thou ?

That's correct. Ulfric couldn't stand what was going on down below and had to do something. He joined the Imperial legion to fight the elves in the Great war.

The Stormcloak Rebellion !

The Only Personality Cult That Extends Beyond It's Fictional Members !