Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

I chose Stormcloak even though I play a wood elf. I think that some of the Stormcloaks are sexy!

Seriously though I do agree with their cause

The Skyrim for the Nords? The xenophobic relations with other races? The not buying from Non-Nord merchants?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Those aren't the words and sentiment of a man who wants to make peace with the Empire. His only reason for not attacking Solitude and killing Titus Mede II is fear of repercussions that the Stormcloaks won't be able to handle. The implication is if he thought he could get away with it he would do it in a heartbeat, i.e. if the Stormcloaks were large enough and powerful enough he would be willing to ignite an all out war between the Stormcloaks and the Empire rather than a civil war confined to Skyrim just so he could satisfy his bloodlust in exacting revenge against the Emperor. These are not the words of a man whose going to come to the Emperor's aid if the Aldmeri Dominion attacks Cyrodiil.

Ulfric isn't just mad at the Empire and the Imperial Legion because of the White-Gold Conocordat. He's angry at them for imprisoning him. He's angry because the Emperor denied him the ability to be at his father's side when he died and to attend his funeral. When he speaks against the Empire there is often a visceral tone of contempt and hatred that aren't captured by just looking at words in text. It's a very personal kind of hatred that transcends any philosophical or political reasons to wage war against the Empire in Skyrim.

Two of the dialogues you quoted make it clear that from Ulfric's point of view the Empire is dying. Galmar, whose thoughts are close to Ulfric's flat out says that the world would be better off without the Empire. One of the quotes you cited implies that under Ulfric's rule Skyrim won't be dragged down defending the Empire. So in addition to deeply hating the Empire why would Ulfric recommit Skyrim to a lost cause simply because the political relationship is different? Why would he commit to an alliance which from his perspective would be a waste of Skyrim's resources to defend a man whom he professes a desire to personally kill?

Further, look at Ulfric's attitude and actions at the end of the Battle for Solitude and ask yourself if they're consistent with a man whose interested in negotiating peace with the Empire let alone an alliance. He has the opportunity to accept Tullius's surrender and to use him as a bargaining chip to broker peace with the Empire but instead he kills him. That too is not the action of a man looking with an eye to a future which includes peace with the Empire.

Not to mention his main desire for self image of how he is remembered, he would probably only aid someone if it made for a good song. Then you have his manipulative hold over the people who follow him, even his speech to them was a charade.

"To return to our glory and traditions, to determine our own future!"
"And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it."

Which many Stormcloak supporters seem to love him for it, but are quick to forget his quiet confide with Galmar.

Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."
Galmar: "It's a foregone conclusion, you know."
Ulfric: "Oh, I know."

 

[The Laoch]

Since it is rumored that the last DLC will deal with choosing the High King, I wonder if the Dragonborn will get chosen. With how Oblivion ended with the Shiverling Isles you have to think they will throw some big surprise in for us.

I like the fire the Stormcloaks have, but Ulfric is just a ego craving D-bag.
I'm not a fan of the Mede Empire( Septim empire was 100x better), but I feel the Empire needs Skyrim if they want to crash the Dominion.

 

[feliciano182]

I'm not a fan of the Mede Empire( Septim empire was 100x better), but I feel the Empire needs Skyrim if they want to crash the Dominion.

I have no idea why people hate the Mede Empire so much, it's almost as if The Empire the Septims ruled consisted of nothing but rainbow-shooting bows and quivers that dispensed beer.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

The Mede Empire is the same empire just different leadership -.- lol but pretending to be thick aside. I like Titus Mede II as a person. though I don't know enough of his policies to judge his rule. I think he was more practical than utterly nationalistic.

 

[The Laoch]

I have no idea why people hate the Mede Empire so much, it's almost as if The Empire the Septims ruled consisted of nothing but rainbow-shooting bows and quivers that dispensed beer.

Oh I'm not saying the Septim empire was great either. I felt the Mede leadership wasn't good. The Septim were dragon blood and I felt I would rather support them than a Warlord that took the throne. Titus Mede the first I felt is good, but I rather have Martin. I know Martin would be dead, but his heirs wouldn't. Titus Mede the second was foolish and overconfident. He didn't listen to his advisors and got countless amount of soldiers slaughtered for nothing.


*spolier* I had a lot of fun killing him and hopefully opening way for a new Empire that could rise to a new Golden age, and maybe smash the Aldmeri Dominion and make all Mer shake at the sight of the new and improved Empire* end*

 

[feliciano182]

Oh I'm not saying the Septim empire was great either. I felt the Mede leadership wasn't good. The Septim were dragon blood and I felt I would rather support them than a Warlord that took the throne. Titus Mede the first I felt is good, but I rather have Martin. I know Martin would be dead, but his heirs wouldn't. Titus Mede the second was foolish and overconfident. He didn't listen to his advisors and got countless amount of soldiers slaughtered for nothing.

A warlord ? You mean like Tiber Septim ?

As for the latter, what would've been the correct course of action ? To agree to the terms of a treaty without offering any resistance whatsoever ? Titus Mede II didn't bow to the demands of the Aldmeri Dominion, and considering how he was unaware of how The Blades had been slaughtered, there was hardly any reason to simply give in to the outrageous terms the Thalmor were asking for.

 

[The Laoch]

A warlord ? You mean like Tiber Septim ?

As for the latter, what would've been the correct course of action ? To agree to the terms of a treaty without offering any resistance whatsoever ? Titus Mede II didn't bow to the demands of the Aldmeri Dominion, and considering how he was unaware of how The Blades had been slaughtered, there was hardly any reason to simply give in to the outrageous terms the Thalmor were asking for.

Talos was dragonborn, and he was a general for the empire.

His advisors said that the empire couldn't handle a war and still attacked. If he was going to go to war at least try to gain something out of it.

 

[Raijin]

Moris

I thought I was on ignore, which is why I haven't bothered to respond but rather to dissagree, which to my knowledge it's perfectly fine and in accordance with the rules of conduct in the forum, but alas, it's understandable, you've always been rather too sensitive for these discussions.

That's the lamest excuse ever for giving people the disagree button! I nearly cough up my fruit salad just reading your post. I don't know how many times you've obnoxiously gave me a disagree button... knowing full well that I don't have you on ignore, and you refuse to explain why.

I'm glad people are noticing your addiction. Perhaps you might want to seek help? Moris I hope you enjoyed your well deserved rep because I'm glad I'm not the only person who notices his obnoxious addiction with giving people bad ratings for no apparent reason.

 

[feliciano182]

Talos was dragonborn, and he was a general for the empire.

His advisors said that the empire couldn't handle a war and still attacked. If he was going to go to war at least try to gain something out of it.

Talos was precisely a warlord, he conquered all of Tamriel by violent means, he didn't enter cities and holds within each province to take them in diplomatic fashion, he had an army, and he used it to crush his enemies.

Titus Mede II didn't attack anyone, The Empire received a surprise invasion from Dominion troops in Elsweyr after he rejected their ultimatum to ban the worship of Talos and to give out the southern territories in Hammerfell, he made the only choice he could've done in his situation.

 

[Raijin]

Well, Moris is my bud. So I appreciate you sticking up for her. The one thing she hates more than anything is when her friends don't do that.

Which brings me to my next point. I have to live with her for the rest of the semester and she won't like it if I let this stand.

So.

Curse the Tapatalk on my Iphone! I was playing Skyrim when I received your quote

I don't know Moris the way you do, but I can sense goodness from her. She is one of the selective people here that I truly respect, and admire. I also enjoy reading her posts If she would to leave the site would dramatically reduce the quality that this site has

 

[The Laoch]

Talos was precisely a warlord, he conquered all of Tamriel by violent means, he didn't enter cities and holds within each province to take them in diplomatic fashion, he had an army, and he used it to crush his enemies.

Titus Mede II didn't attack anyone, The Empire received a surprise invasion from Dominion troops in Elsweyr after he rejected their ultimatum to ban the worship of Talos and to give out the southern territories in Hammerfell, he made the only choice he could've done in his situation.

I agree completely that Talos conquered all of Tamerial in a violent way.

A warlord is a person with power who has both military and civil[1] control over a subnational area due to armed forces loyal to the warlord and not to a central authority.
Correct if I am wrong, but I thought Talos was a general for the Empire and his soldiers swore an oath to the Emperor and the Empire. Not solely on Talos.

On the second part the Thalmor knew they couldn't beat the Empire straight out in the first Great War. I felt Mede should have never fraught in the first part instead of fighting and throwing in the towel early. I do believe the Empire should have fought, but they should have dragged the war out. The Mer don't reproduce as fast as man so if the empire fought long like the Nords did against the snow elves they may have won. The struggle against the snow elves wasn't a few years long.

 

[feliciano182]

Dude, I've known Moris for almost 20 years. She doesn't get upset easily. If she's pissed at you, I guarantee she has a good reason.

You know, normally, I would think that one would be as rational as to ask questions or to at least seek the source or the catalyst within a dispute, regardless of whatever relationships one may have with any of the involved parties, and why would I do such a thing ?

Because I also have been friends with certain people for years, and yet, whenever there's a problem, I appeal to reason, rather than to attack anyone beforehand, I'm not friends with aliens, I'm friends with human beings, which can very well indulge themselves in mistakes and misunderstandings.

That said, your complete lack of interest in solving what could very well be a misunderstanding, since I'm not maliciously throwing ratings like candy, tells me quite a lot about your behavior.

Now you can play a rating game with me if you want, pal -- as I see you are doing right here with Raijin. I've got no negatives. Not even a single disagree, and I acquired more rep than you in 1/6 of the time. Obviously, I am too bloody likeable in these forums, so I am clearly not doing a very good job of debating.

First, I'm not playing rating-games with anyone, Raijin posts something, and rather than wasting my time in trying to persuade him, I just click a simple dissagree, a behavior that is perfectly in line with the accepted rules of conduct in this forum, have any doubts about that ? Go ask Rayven, don't like my behavior ? Let's talk about in the profile page if you feel it's that bad.

Second, I'm glad that you have no negatives and no disagrees, and that you certainly have achieved the same level of reputation in precisely 1/6 of the time, I'll leave it to you to arrange the perfect time for the award ceremonies to come by, you obviously have much more free time than I do !

Feel free to mark me as a bad-mannered off-topic ranter with whom you vehemently disagree, if you like. Feel free to report me to the mods and beg them to ban me for this post. It won't hurt my feelings. But it also won't change the fact that you're a disagreeable and immature little tool who needs to grow a pair and stop relying on bully tactics in the forums to make yourself feel like a man.

Perhaps I should, but doing so would be as futile as adding more salt to a dish that does not need it, you don't know what the issue between me and Moris is (if such a thing even exists) and yet, rather than acting as a proper voice of reason, an intermediary for the resolution of a problem that very well might not exist, you've recoursed to little but unfounded accusations and petty insults.

No friend, I'd rather have you showing a clean slate to everyone in this forum, the irony is much sweeter that way.

 

[feliciano182]

But, honestly, when you have known someone for half your life and they are family to you, you don't require proof, especially given that I had already observed your behavior myself since I joined the forums.

Actually, you do, you know what I ask my friend of ten years whenever something happens with his girlfriend ? The latter being one of the people in this world whom I cannot stand ?

What happened ?

I don't care whom you are friends with, if you demand education and manners from everyone else, if you demand for people to be rational and well-behaved, as I've seen you do before, then act on your own words and premises and do not throw around baseless accusations and insults at people.

Ask questions, and then assign judgements.

I am accusing you of going out of your way to purposefully create a hostile environment in these forums for anyone you disagree with. That is to say, I am accusing you of being a bully.

Ask questions, and then assign judgements.

I am not interested in being an intermediary or being a voice of reason or resolving your disputes. Ask someone else here for that. You fl*ffed with a friend of mine. You don't get to enjoy the benefit of my unbiased objective response.

This is the exact point where I could use the bad manners rating, but as I said, it's much sweeter this way, it'll make me chuckle the next time you ask anyone to be educated, to have manners or to simply calm down and be reasonable.

 

[feliciano182]

Forgiving the double post.

A warlord is a person with power who has both military and civil[1] control over a subnational area due to armed forces loyal to the warlord and not to a central authority.
Correct if I am wrong, but I thought Talos was a general for the Empire and his soldiers swore an oath to the Emperor and the Empire. Not solely on Talos.

It was an Empire HE founded though, and violently at that.

And while I certainly understand your point, I frankly believe it matters little if the axe that splits your skull belongs to a man who has swore allegiance to an Empire, as opposed to a man who has swore allegiance to another man.

On the second part the Thalmor knew they couldn't beat the Empire straight out in the first Great War. I felt Mede should have never fraught in the first part instead of fighting and throwing in the towel early. I do believe the Empire should have fought, but they should have dragged the war out. The Mer don't reproduce as fast as man so if the empire fought long like the Nords did against the snow elves they may have won. The struggle against the snow elves wasn't a few years long.

I'm not sure you're right about this, the Thalmor attacked with two invasion forces, took all of Cyrodiil, and most of the southern territories in Hammerfell, they were aware that they could win indeed, they just didn't expect The Emperor to take back the imperial province with barely a thousand men.

Frankly, I think he did the right thing, he couldn't have simply given away imperial lands at the threat of an emissary of the dominion, The Empire wouldn't have been doing it's job if it had agreed to such terms so early, and when they finally accepted "surrender", they did so because they were looking at a bigger picture, Tamriel would've probably been torn apart had The Great War continued after Cyrodiil had been retaken.

And, much as I've heard this "men reproduce faster than mer" argument, how were the men races supposed to do that while most of them were fighting in a war ? Isn't it better to call time-out and precisely do the "breeding" at that moment ?

 

[Raijin]

First, I'm not playing rating-games with anyone, Raijin posts something, and rather than wasting my time in trying to persuade him, I just click a simple dissagree, a behavior that is perfectly in line with the accepted rules of conduct in this forum, have any doubts about that ? Go ask Rayven, don't like my behavior ? Let's talk about in the profile page if you feel it's that bad.

You did a fantastic job contradicting yourself You're not playing the rating game, but you just acknowledge that you're too lazy to "persuade" me otherwise. If you're not willing to contribute to this page by responding to a post that you disagree with then why in the oblivion are you here anyways?

Do you know what social acceptation is? If not let me try to explain it to you.

Grimjulf Winter-Heart and I have our differences in the civil war. He is a pro Imperial/Empire while I'm Pro Stormcloak. I don't sit on my chair all day and click on disagree whenever he inserts a pro Imperial statement. That's just lame and socially unacceptable. If I disagree with what he says I would instead click on the quote button and submit my reason. I don't go around messing up peoples rating systems.

 

[The Laoch]

Forgiving the double post.



It was an Empire HE founded though, and violently at that.

And while I certainly understand your point, I frankly believe it matters little if the axe that splits your skull belongs to a man who has swore allegiance to an Empire, as opposed to a man who has swore allegiance to another man.



I'm not sure you're right about this, the Thalmor attacked with two invasion forces, took all of Cyrodiil, and most of the southern territories in Hammerfell, they were aware that they could win indeed, they just didn't expect The Emperor to take back the imperial province with barely a thousand men.

Frankly, I think he did the right thing, he couldn't have simply given away imperial lands at the threat of an emissary of the dominion, The Empire wouldn't have been doing it's job if it had agreed to such terms so early, and when they finally accepted "surrender", they did so because they were looking at a bigger picture, Tamriel would've probably been torn apart had The Great War continued after Cyrodiil had been retaken.

And, much as I've heard this "men reproduce faster than mer" argument, how were the men races supposed to do that while most of them were fighting in a war ? Isn't it better to call time-out and precisely do the "breeding" at that moment ?

First I know this is completely not pertaining to the topic, but I like the legion signature.

On the point of the taking a time out for breeding I believe you are correct. It may be the inner Nord in me, but I feel like I rather fight and die than surrender. The way of taking a break to build up an army would work, but I feel it can only work if your government isn't unstable. I feel Ulfric is a bad leader, but good cause of trying to lead themselves (not racism). I feel the Empire could be good, but shake ups in their hierarchy is a problem.

 

[feliciano182]

You did a fantastic job contradicting yourself You're not playing the rating game, but you just acknowledge that you're too lazy to "persuade" me otherwise. If you're not willing to contribute to this page by responding to a post that you disagree with then why in the oblivion are you here anyways?

I never said I felt "lazy" about answering any of your posts.

My honest opinion however, is that it's not possible to argue with you Raijin, you're not here to debate or discuss anything in the topic, you're here to present your opinion (always with videos and images that have nothing to do with the point you're trying to support) and damn everything and everyone else, you always twist things and try to diminish the pro-imperial arguments with things like how Elisif likes the Thalmor's parties or that Igmund is responsible for everything in The Reach.

I still remember when Dagmar once told you (paraphrasing) that we should "make you a superhero costume with the straw-man sign on the chest, and to maybe add some red-herring batarangs as well"

So to me, rather than actually elaborating on a post you will end up rationalizing to death, I felt better to simply click "disagree", a behavior that Rayven herself (himself?) told you it was perfectly okay, it's as she told you (paraphrasing) "you would not be reporting this if you had received a friendly or funny rating".

I don't sit on my chair all day and click on disagree whenever he inserts a pro Imperial statement. That's just lame and socially unacceptable. If I disagree with what he says I would instead click on the quote button and submit my reason. I don't go around messing up peoples rating systems.

Neither do I Raijin, I answer people's post when I'm bound to get a good response, I'm having a rational discussion with The Laoch right now, of the likes I've never had with you, so rather than actually berating me endlessly for "tarnishing" your reputation in a silly internet forum, why don't you look into yourself for a little while ?

 

[feliciano182]

Again everyone, forgive the double post.

First I know this is completely not pertaining to the topic, but I like the legion signature.

YES ! A good man you are !

Or woman ?

For a moment there, I thought you were talking about The Imperial Legion, which sort of confused me a bit !

On the point of the taking a time out for breeding I believe you are correct. It may be the inner Nord in me, but I feel like I rather fight and die than surrender. The way of taking a break to build up an army would work, but I feel it can only work if your government isn't unstable. I feel Ulfric is a bad leader, but good cause of trying to lead themselves (not racism). I feel the Empire could be good, but shake ups in their hierarchy is a problem.

No good guys and bad guys in this war, I have issues with Helgen and Roggvir myself that I can't just cast aside to simply make my choice of faction look better, fact of the matter is that The Empire, The Mede Empire, has done some bad stuff over the years, it's just the way it is.

However, I do feel Ulfric is too much of a liability to even support his cause, which I frankly don't think it's a cause that supports all of Tamriel, but rather half of the nords in Skyrim.

 

[The Laoch]

Again everyone, forgive the double post.



YES ! A good man you are !

Or woman ?

For a moment there, I thought you were talking about The Imperial Legion, which sort of confused me a bit !



No good guys and bad guys in this war, I have issues with Helgen and Roggvir myself that I can't just cast aside to simply make my choice of faction look better, fact of the matter is that The Empire, The Mede Empire, has done some bad stuff over the years, it's just the way it is.

However, I do feel Ulfric is too much of a liability to even support his cause, which I frankly don't think it's a cause that supports all of Tamriel, but rather half of the nords in Skyrim.

Yes I am a dude.

Yes sorry I didn't mean all of Tamriel, I feel Ulfric would be a terrible high king I rather have Laila Law-Giver or Balgruuf.