Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

How will they overcome?
Every time I am at the Thalmor embassy general Tulius is there, saying he came so that thalmor can show to everyone that they can comand empire what to do, and its representatives.
It hapened in my first game. Since then I have nothing with imperials.
Simply because there is no hope to fight back and rebuild if Elves have that kind of power over it.

He also said he would refuse but didn't want to risk the treaty. It could be taken the wrong way if Tullius refused. Tullius is the Military Governor, he represents the Emperors interests. He becomes a vassal to the Emperor, he can't refuse as they will take that as the insult comes from the Emperor.

 

[Mookie]

He also said he would refuse but didn't want to risk the treaty. It could be taken the wrong way if Tullius refused. Tullius is the Military Governor, he represents the Emperors interests. He becomes a vassal to the Emperor, he can't refuse as they will take that as the insult comes from the Emperor.

I want to create 4 new legions of soldiers and expand imperial army.
Thalmor:
NO! Or the treaty is anuled.

I want a grand big navy:
NO! or the trety is anuled.


The thalmor hold the empire by scrotum XD
Thalmor can break the treaty any time in order to prevent empire to fully prepare.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I want to create 4 new legions of soldiers and expand imperial army.
Thalmor:
NO! Or the treaty is anuled.

I want a grand big navy:
NO! or the trety is anuled.


The thalmor hold the empire by scrotum XD
Thalmor can break the treaty any time in order to prevent empire to fully prepare.

If they did, why is there a massive force sitting on their border preparing for war? If the Thalmor controlled the Empire, military wise and controlled them like you're suggesting. Do you think the Empire would be preparing for war? Wouldn't the Dominion be allowed access? Because they're blocked. I only see a handful of Thalmor Agents in Skyrim, what I don't see is this Dominion Army that would be there if the Thalmor owned the Empire.

Thalmor have no control over the Imperial Legion, Military wise. Tullius being made the Military Governor, changes his responsibilities from just Military to also Political. Technically Tullius is in charge of Skyrim, on an Imperial bit of paper that would be. Realistically, the Nordic Holds are largely independent and don't really listen to each other. Nord politics are a stubborn and would be frustrating thing to deal with.

 

[Docta Corvina]

How will they overcome?
Every time I am at the Thalmor embassy general Tulius is there, saying he came so that thalmor can show to everyone that they can comand empire what to do, and its representatives.
It hapened in my first game. Since then I have nothing with imperials.
Simply because there is no hope to fight back and rebuild if Elves have that kind of power over it.

Nothing is guaranteed, but since when can anyone proceed on things that are incapable of failing? Ulfric and his forces prove that. The man himself says he cannot risk full war with Cyrodiil, yet he is, by default, teasing or even instigating an expansion of the present conflict. Tullius may say in game he's not getting reinforcements, but that's in part because at the current time, everyone involved is playing down the confrontation - Legion and Stormcloaks included. The other reason is because the bulk of Legion troops are garrisoned along the border with the Dominion - it's probably more than fair to assume in preparation for renewed conflict. The Empire could decide to send in more troops to Skyrim if Ulfric took power, but then where would any of them, either side, be? They certainly wouldn't be in better fighting shape to face the Thalmor, not for a long time.

As for Tullius at the Embassy, he's there because he has to be. Not because he wants to be. I'm sure if he could get away with kicking Elenwen in the junk, he would. But that wouldn't do anyone any real favors. Let's be honest. No one is resigned to the present situation. That's a given.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Nothing is guaranteed, but since when can anyone proceed on things that are incapable of failing? Ulfric and his forces prove that. The man himself says he cannot risk full war with Cyrodiil, yet he is, by default, teasing or even instigating an expansion of the present conflict. Tullius may say in game he's not getting reinforcements, but that's in part because at the current time, everyone involved is playing down the confrontation - Legion and Stormcloaks included. The other reason is because the bulk of Legion troops are garrisoned along the border with the Dominion - it's probably more than fair to assume in preparation for renewed conflict. The Empire could decide to send in more troops to Skyrim if Ulfric took power, but then where would any of them, either side, be? They certainly wouldn't be in better fighting shape to face the Thalmor, not for a long time.

As for Tullius at the Embassy, he's there because he has to be. Not because he wants to be. I'm sure if he could get away with kicking Elenwen in the junk, he would. But that wouldn't do anyone any real favors. Let's be honest. No one is resigned to the present situation. That's a given.

He certainly wasn't a happy camper being around the Thalmor. "I need another drink..."

 

[Mookie]

If they did, why is there a massive force sitting on their border preparing for war? If the Thalmor controlled the Empire, military wise and controlled them like you're suggesting. Do you think the Empire would be preparing for war? Wouldn't the Dominion be allowed access? Because they're blocked. I only see a handful of Thalmor Agents in Skyrim, what I don't see is this Dominion Army that would be there if the Thalmor owned the Empire.

Thalmor have no control over the Imperial Legion, Military wise. Tullius being made the Military Governor, changes his responsibilities from just Military to also Political. Technically Tullius is in charge of Skyrim, on an Imperial bit of paper that would be. Realistically, the Nordic Holds are largely independent and don't really listen to each other. Nord politics are a stubborn and would be frustrating thing to deal with.

Massive force?
Enough force to cover all three Thalmor controled provinces?
The thalmor took what they wanted.
They will want more, but later.
Any great expansion and war preparation will be seen, and there will be threat of anulation of treaty.
So the empire will have to start war unprepared, again, and hope to raise those troops ASAP and hope they get trained in time

 

[DrunkenMage]

Massive force?
Enough force to cover all three Thalmor controled provinces?
The thalmor took what they wanted.
They will want more, but later.
Any great expansion and war preparation will be seen, and there will be threat of anulation of treaty.
So the empire will have to start war unprepared, again, and hope to raise those troops ASAP and hope they get trained in time

You would need to secure two of the provinces. Summerset Isles can only be taken by sea, the two provinces Valenwood and Elsweyr are where the Legions are on the border.

"Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes." - Tullius

The Legions are along that border, the Imperial Navy would most likely be in Anvil.

 

[Two Bears]

Massive force?
Enough force to cover all three Thalmor controled provinces?
The thalmor took what they wanted.
They will want more, but later.
Any great expansion and war preparation will be seen, and there will be threat of anulation of treaty.
So the empire will have to start war unprepared, again, and hope to raise those troops ASAP and hope they get trained in time

The Aldmeri Dominion is clearly in the same boat in terms of manpower as the Empire. Otherwise, there would be no need to hold to a treaty. Do you truly believe that the Thalmor would let this stalemate drag on one day longer than was necessary? As such, they are in no position to wage a large-scale war of conquest, just as the Empire is in no position to wage a large-scale war of conquest. Treaty invalidation is no more an option for the Dominion as it would be the Empire.

 

[Mookie]

The Aldmeri Dominion is clearly in the same boat in terms of manpower as the Empire. Otherwise, there would be no need to hold to a treaty. Do you truly believe that the Thalmor would let this stalemate drag on one day longer than was necessary? As such, they are in no position to wage a large-scale war of conquest, just as the Empire is in no position to wage a large-scale war of conquest. Treaty invalidation is no more an option for the Dominion as it would be the Empire.

No, they are using the peace, not because they need it but because peace does more for them than war.

Bandits skirmishes, hate, all works for them.
What they are waiting for is power vacum, where emperor dies/is killed and then its on.

 

[Mookie]

You would need to secure two of the provinces. Summerset Isles can only be taken by sea, the two provinces Valenwood and Elsweyr are where the Legions are on the border.

"Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes." - Tullius

The Legions are along that border, the Imperial Navy would most likely be in Anvil.

And thalmor have their troops along the border. So you can strike out both theirs and imperial troops that are on the border.
What other troops do they have?
And what if thalmor win naval combat?
They will be able to land wherever they want with imperials tied to the borders.

 

[Two Bears]

No, they are using the peace, not because they need it but because peace does more for them than war.

Bandits skirmishes, hate, all works for them.
What they are waiting for is power vacum, where emperor dies/is killed and then its on.

That doesn't reconcile at all with lore. Both the Legion and the Dominion forces fought each other to a de facto draw during the Battle of the Red Ring. With both sides militarily exhausted, they sued for peace. I'm sorry, but you are absolutely wrong.

 

[Mookie]

That doesn't reconcile at all with lore. Both the Legion and the Dominion forces fought each other to a de facto draw during the Battle of the Red Ring. With both sides militarily exhausted, they sued for peace. I'm sorry, but you are absolutely wrong.

The thalmor aimed the treaty specificaly at certain provinces, meaning they have plans with them.
If they fought to a standstill the treaty would be a White Peace, without any benefits to anyone

 

[DrunkenMage]

And thalmor have their troops along the border. So you can strike out both theirs and imperial troops that are on the border.
What other troops do they have?
And what if thalmor win naval combat?
They will be able to land wherever they want with imperials tied to the borders.

The Thalmor have no safe ports except those within Valenwood and Elsweyr, all Dominion forces are blocked by the mass of Legions. Who are prepared, well supplied and excel at offensive wars. The Empire can't lose the next war, so they'll fight to the last, if they lose. The Aldmeri will rule over man once more.

I'm uncertain on what the Dominion has, the Imperial Legions however;

Heavy & Light Infantry. (With the lovely Orcish front line berserk troops)
Archers
Light & Heavy Cavalry
Shadow Legion (Battlemages)

 

[Two Bears]

The thalmor aimed the treaty specificaly at certain provinces, meaning they have plans with them.
If they fought to a standstill the treaty would be a White Peace, without any benefits to anyone

It's called Titus Mede's administration is bad at negotiation. People all over the Empire are complaining that accepting the terms of the White-Gold Concordat was unnecessary. You should know this, as it was a major plot point in the Civil War questline in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, which I assume you have played.

 

[Mookie]

The Thalmor have no safe ports except those within Valenwood and Elsweyr, all Dominion forces are blocked by the mass of Legions. Who are prepared, well supplied and excel at offensive wars. The Empire can't lose the next war, so they'll fight to the last, if they lose. The Aldmeri will rule over man once more.

I'm uncertain on what the Dominion has, the Imperial Legions however;

Heavy & Light Infantry. (With the lovely Orcish front line berserk troops)
Archers
Light & Heavy Cavalry
Shadow Legion (Battlemages)

Lets use logic used by imperials on Skyrim.
We will write off those archers, heavy infantry, light and heavy cavalry because AD is magic users.
Who will "freeze and burn everyone"

So all you have is shadow legion, agains all those high elves, argonians, khajit and Bosmer.

 

[Mookie]

It's called Titus Mede's administration is bad at negotiation. People all over the Empire are complaining that accepting the terms of the White-Gold Concordat was unnecessary. You should know this, as it was a major plot point in the Civil War questline in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, which I assume you have played.

 

[Two Bears]

I am not. Now, unless you have something better to add than image macros or more pseudo-lore based on information from the Book of Mookie, I suggest we let this one close.

 

[DrunkenMage]

It's called Titus Mede's administration is bad at negotiation. People all over the Empire are complaining that accepting the terms of the White-Gold Concordat were unnecessary. You should know this, as it was a major plot point in the Civil War questline in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, which I assume you have played.

Had nothing to do with negotiation, the Thalmor would not have accepted anything less than what the terms were before. It was the Empire that needed peace, the Aldmeri Dominion's lands were untouched by war, they could spend the next thousand years taking pot shots at the Empire. The Empire needed to regain it's strength, so it needed the peace.

If the Thalmor had asked for peace then terms could be changed, but the Empire reached out to them for a cease fire. The Empire had to sign it to restore order, it was the Empire who got hit hard. The surprise attack was meant for Hammerfell, the Thalmor discovered the Empire's Military strength was weaker than they had predicted and the rest of the war their plans became the complete destruction of the Empire.

Titus Mede II inherited a weak Empire, he was on the Ruby Throne for two years before the Great War broke out, though he did save the Empire with his actions and strategies during the war. The Legions were spread across the provinces, had they been all massed along the Dominion's border, then it would of been a different story. Since everyone was unprepared for the Great War, which no one, not even the Blades had seen coming, it would of taken months to a couple of years before the Legion could fully mobilize. Heavy resistance only came in the second/third year. '4E 173 saw stiffening Imperial resistance in Cyrodiil'

 

[DrunkenMage]

Lets use logic used by imperials on Skyrim.
We will write off those archers, heavy infantry, light and heavy cavalry because AD is magic users.
Who will "freeze and burn everyone"

So all you have is shadow legion, agains all those high elves, argonians, khajit and Bosmer.

The Aldmeri Dominion does not have Argonians.

They have Battlemages, and their infantry and archers. Imperial logic on the Stormcloaks is they lack any heavy infantry and they also lack any magic users. So without magic to combat their magic, it would end quickly.

 

[Two Bears]

Had nothing to do with negotiation, the Thalmor would not have accepted anything less than what the terms were before. It was the Empire that needed peace, the Aldmeri Dominion's lands were untouched by war, they could spend the next thousand years taking pot shots at the Empire. The Empire needed to regain it's strength, so it needed the peace.

Their lands were indeed untouched by war, but their ability to wage war was effectively nullified. It is the only reason the Thalmor would agree to any kind of peace. After all they, had already taken the Imperial City. If they could have taken it back, they most certainly would have.

If the Thalmor had asked for peace then terms could be changed, but the Empire reached out to them for a cease fire. The Empire had to sign it to restore order, it was the Empire who got hit hard. The surprise attack was meant for Hammerfell, the Thalmor discovered the Empire's Military strength was weaker than they had predicted and the rest of the war their plans became the complete destruction of the Empire.

Which turned out to be disasterous for them, as their assessment of the military situation was overly optimistic. Both Red Ring and the Hammerfell insurrection prove that.

Titus Mede II inherited a weak Empire, he was on the Ruby Throne for two years before the Great War broke out, though he did save the Empire during his actions and strategies during the war. The Legions were spread across the provinces, had they been all massed along the Dominion's border, then it would of been a different story. Since everyone was unprepared for the Great War, which no one, not even the Blades had seen coming, it would of taken months to a couple of years before the Legion could fully mobilize. Heavy resistance only came in the second/third year. '4E 173 saw stiffening Imperial resistance in Cyrodiil'

The Empire is most definitely weak. However, the Dominion is clearly doing a heavy amount of bluffing, much in the same vein as the Tribunal did with Tiber Septim.