Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Rimfaxe96]

Or TES 6 could be the second Great War itself. We return to Cyrodiil and see it burn once more, under the engines of war. That would be a deep game, and very emotional for anyone who understands TES lore.

If we'd end up in the middle of WWII - I mean, GW2 - that'd be epic as hell. The only thing I can't picture yet is how they're going to improve the graphics.

Bethesda people have written messages on their forum that were anti-Thalmor. The developers seem to disagree with the Thalmor and therefor I think there is a small chance they will win a second war.

The Thalmor is easily the most dangerous organization in the Aurbis. Moreso than Talos.

They cannot be understood. They are the Other and they hate everything that even smells like mortality.
And they're going to win in the end.

From Michael Kirkbride himself. Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1pv78e/ask_michael_kirkbride_anything_the_aftermath/
Doesn't mean that Bethesda has to take his lorestuff, but so far they've used pretty much of it anyway. If not all of it.

Starts funding bandits in Cyrodiil that prey on innocents taking their heads as trophies.

Source? I'm starting to read through MK's Imperial Library but I haven't found anything yet that suggests the funding of bandit groups.
Well, at least that'd explain the giant amount of bandits within Skyrim as well. Maybe the Thalmor have taken a few guys with them?

 

[DrunkenMage]

From Michael Kirkbride himself. Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1pv78e/ask_michael_kirkbride_anything_the_aftermath/
Doesn't mean that Bethesda has to take his lorestuff, but so far they've used pretty much of it anyway. If not all of it.

They use some, but not everything. Most of Kirkbride's things are in Morrowind. They only use small clippings of his works, in Skyrim they used his text on Heimskr. What Heimskr is shouting all day, every day.

Source? I'm starting to read through MK's Imperial Library but I haven't found anything yet that suggests the funding of bandit groups.
Well, at least that'd explain the giant amount of bandits within Skyrim as well. Maybe the Thalmor have taken a few guys with them?

It is in the novels. They're insurgents operating around Skingrad, they take the heads of people. They're funded and supplied by the Thalmor, which is why someone wanted to frame them in the death of Attrebus Mede. Because it would cause war between the Empire and Aldmeri Dominion, weakening them before Umbriel came. Except the mercenaries got greedy and didn't kill Attrebus, the Emperor and Penitus Oculatus' Inspector Colin, saw through it.

 

[Jeremius]

I usually choose both sides, one for each playthrough, because I can understand both sides. For all of Tamriel, the Empire is the best, and so are the other rebels fighting against the Altmeri Dominion. But for Skyrim, (obviously it would be best if the Imperials and Stormcloaks came together and fought the Thalmor) the Stormcloaks are the best. However, the fighting between the Stormcloaks and the Imperials is only strengthening the Thalmor, as it is hurting the Empire and Skyrim as a whole.

I somewhat agree with all this. I usually let my characters decide what side to choose/faction to ally with (Like my tribal chick I am working on in Fallout New Vegas).

Too bad Bethesda loves its black and white, and the Empire look more white with all the "correct lore."

 

[DrunkenMage]

Too bad Bethesda loves its black and white, and the Empire look more white with all the "correct lore."

No, both sides have their pros and cons. If you see the Empire as completely white, in some black and white good and bad. Then you're not even looking.

 

[Jeremius]

Too bad Bethesda loves its black and white, and the Empire look more white with all the "correct lore."

No, both sides have their pros and cons. If you see the Empire as completely white, in some black and white good and bad. Then you're not even looking.

In the Civil War, Empire=good, Stormcloaks=bad. Simple as that. All the lore points to is that the Empire is the right choice, so why have a choice?

With all the racial segregation, Non-Nord shop owners being forced to shut down if the stormcloaks win, and forcing everyone to fall in line or leave, it is clear that there is little-to-no good in the stormcloaks.

 

[DrunkenMage]

All the lore points to is that the Empire is the right choice, so why have a choice?

You know all the lore points to the Empire?

Care to explain how 'all the lore' points towards the Empire being right?

 

[Jeremius]

All the lore points to is that the Empire is the right choice, so why have a choice?

You know all the lore points to the Empire?

Care to explain how 'all the lore' points towards the Empire being right?

The empire does not outright challenge people to duels only to cheat/murder them, nor do they outright segregate people by race, whereas the stormcloaks clearly do. seems clear that the Empire is more righteous than the rebels who are blinded to the truth of Ulfric only wanting what's best for Ulfric.

 

[NENALATA]

Well this talk about 'The Empire is the only right choice' is exactly why I didn't throw in with them. Of course, I'll help the Empire absolutely.

Same goes for the Stormcloaks being, "The True Sons and Daughters of Skyrim". It's all the same pl*ps.

There is always a choice and the Empire is not always right, it's not always nice and neither are Nords.

The Stormcloak Rebels are blind because they see with their hearts. I dunno what's so hard to understand about this.

Whereas Imperials are cowardly in their manner of crunching the numbers and supplementing emotional responses with infusions of logic. But thinking and using your head does not make you a coward... unless you run from what's in your heart.

It's just more about who you are than who is right.

Although, as I said prev... if we MUST know who is 'RIGHT' then this cannot be measured by either sides character, however the answer can be found by observing two things:

1) Their nature
2) What dealings have they had with the Thalmor?

Not they I consider the Thalmor 'EVIL' per say, however they do. See what I'm saying?

 

[Jeremius]

Well this talk about 'The Empire is the only right choice' is exactly why I didn't throw in with them. Of course, I'll help the Empire absolutely.

Same goes for the Stormcloaks being, "The True Sons and Daughters of Skyrim". It's all the same pl*ps.

There is always a choice and the Empire is not always right, it's not always nice and neither are Nords.

The Stormcloak Rebels are blind because they see with their hearts. I dunno what's so hard to understand about this.

Whereas Imperials are cowardly in their manner of crunching the numbers and supplementing emotional responses with infusions of logic. But they're not cowards.

It's just more about who you are than who is right.

Although, as I said prev... if we MUST know who is 'RIGHT' then this cannot be measured by either sides character, however the answer can be found by observing two things:

1) Their nature
2) What dealings have they had with the Thalmor?

Not they I consider the Thalmor 'EVIL' per say, however they do. See what I'm saying?

You mean how the Empire is only trying to save people from being destroyed by the Thalmor by being nice to them for now? OR how the Stormcloaks perpetuated the Thalmor being in Skyrim because Nords like Ulfric threw a hissy fit over something that not every nord cares about?

 

[NENALATA]

Oh my GOD this Firefox is really starting to make me mad...

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

Well this talk about 'The Empire is the only right choice' is exactly why I didn't throw in with them. Of course, I'll help the Empire absolutely.

Same goes for the Stormcloaks being, "The True Sons and Daughters of Skyrim". It's all the same pl*ps.

There is always a choice and the Empire is not always right, it's not always nice and neither are Nords.

The Stormcloak Rebels are blind because they see with their hearts. I dunno what's so hard to understand about this.

Whereas Imperials are cowardly in their manner of crunching the numbers and supplementing emotional responses with infusions of logic. But they're not cowards.

It's just more about who you are than who is right.

Although, as I said prev... if we MUST know who is 'RIGHT' then this cannot be measured by either sides character, however the answer can be found by observing two things:

1) Their nature
2) What dealings have they had with the Thalmor?

Not they I consider the Thalmor 'EVIL' per say, however they do. See what I'm saying?​

You mean how the Empire is only trying to save people from being destroyed by the Thalmor by being nice to them for now? OR how the Stormcloaks perpetuated the Thalmor being in Skyrim because Nords like Ulfric threw a hissy fit over something that not every nord cares about?

FIREFOX DOES NOT LIKE THIS SITE. :S


Anyways, don't be so quick to judge and throw blame around. This is a matter of the heart, a matter of honor. Should be respected as much.

 

[Jeremius]

FIREFOX DOES NOT LIKE THIS SITE. :S


Anyways, don't be so quick to judge and throw blame around. This is a matter of the heart, a matter of honor. Should be respected as much.

You can see the negatives of the stormcloaks clear as day. You have to dig to find the negatives of the Empire, and even then, they have those negatives because of good things they did.

Clearly the Empire are the white hat, and the Stormcloaks are the black hat.

 

[NENALATA]

The RIGHT answer here but not the answer to the question I posed in #13893 is for both sides to have a beer, hug each other and calm their pl*ps down. That is the CORRECT answer. But alas, that is not an option in this scenario.

So someone's gonna die and all you need is one bullet. I would take my time in deciding if it were me.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The empire does not outright challenge people to duels only to cheat/murder them

No. They don't challenge you to a duel. They assassinate you, or kill you outright.

nor do they outright segregate people by race, whereas the stormcloaks clearly do.

The Empire doesn't segregate by race, but by class. The Empire doesn't do things that benefit all, only the few. They change cultures to suit their needs, not the needs of the people. Such as what happened in Black Marsh when the Empire nearly ruined the economy there, by trying to 'civilize' it.

seems clear that the Empire is more righteous than the rebels who are blinded to the truth of Ulfric only wanting what's best for Ulfric.

The Empire are blinded by the fact, they believe provinces can't survive without them. That the rest of Tamriel are savages and lawless without the iron hand of the Legion maintaining order.

"Without us to keep order, the provinces would fall into barbarism and lawlessness." - Tullius

The Empire cares about money.

"A delicate question, to be sure. I'm the Emperor's cousin, and the Empire has little love for the Thalmor. On the other hand, the Thalmor have considerable funds and are looking to expand their shipping. I haven't signed any deals yet, but I'm sure my cousin will want a cut if I do. What better way to soothe his wounded pride?" - Vittoria Vici

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

FIREFOX DOES NOT LIKE THIS SITE. :S​

​

​

Anyways, don't be so quick to judge and throw blame around. This is a matter of the heart, a matter of honor. Should be respected as much.​

You can see the negatives of the stormcloaks clear as day. You have to dig to find the negatives of the Empire, and even then, they have those negatives because of good things they did.

Clearly the Empire are the white hat, and the Stormcloaks are the black hat.

Never run to your death. And by judging too hastily you may accomplish this.

Honestly, there's enough mistakes and screw ups between them to have 'em both shot in the face.

Here lemme pose this question too...

Is the heart really wrong? If someone does something out of heart, is it wrong? I mean, how do you judge the actions of the soul? It's more than just a simple, "Well the Empire knows how to talk to people so fl*ff the weird Nords who sit off by themselves."

The Nords are different so they all need to die because we have superior speech skills.

*SHIVERS*

I would hate to judge the fate of a nation based on such objective things. But that's just me.

This is also not me hatin on the Empire. I'm just saying that this is major bad situation we got here and often times, when and if things get bad enough... You CAN NOT tell who is good or otherwise because the whirlwind is in the thorn tree and pl*ps is flying around everywhere.

Everybody is 'BAD' and yet, some are 'GOOD' in such a scenario. All that will matter is who is still standing after the fact. However, if you really want to justify it, then you'll have to dig deeper than that.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Nords are different so they all need to die because we have superior speech skills.

Not at all, Nords continue to faithfully serve the Empire. Standing against Ulfric and his rebellion. Are they not fighting for what they believe in? Why is it only Stormcloaks 'passion' and doing things out of their 'heart'. Are all the other races incapable of doing so? Legate Fasendil serves the Legion with a passion, Rikke too.

The Empire isn't perfect. We can admit that, Tullius can admit it too. Is it better to admit you have faults? Than to blindly ignore them such as Ulfric, Galmar and other Stormcloaks?

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

The Nords are different so they all need to die because we have superior speech skills.​

Not at all, Nords continue to faithfully serve the Empire. Standing against Ulfric and his rebellion. Are they not fighting for what they believe in? Why is it only Stormcloaks 'passion' and doing things out of their 'heart'. Are all the other races incapable of doing so? Legate Fasendil serves the Legion with a passion, Rikke too.

Fair enough I suppose. I said the Nords. Nords and Cyrodilians are two different things. Nords are Nords no matter what their occupation is.

However you're right on the money about the Stormcloaks. And there is license for a little bias here because that is what this fight is all about for them.

The Empire's nature is different, although Nords still apply to their Nature, within the Empire.

 

[NENALATA]

The Empire in a way, eliminates national identities. See? Again NOT HATING on the Empire. I'm just drawing perspectives here to illustrate my stance on this matter.

The WGC has tainted the Nords identity and you know it has. May not be permanent, however this is why Ulfric and his crew are rebelling.

They want to reset the clock and restore the Nord's identity in the world of Tamriel.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Stormcloaks are angry, they have every right to be angry. But they forget that the Empire is just as angry. No body is happy about the White-Gold Concordat, and the Empire isn't enjoying themselves.

 

[NENALATA]

For example, let's pretend my home is in Skyrim... say... Markarth. I live in those God-forsaken, hell infested Mtns.

*BAM BAM BAM* It's late and *someone* is knocking on my chamber door. Why, who could it be at such a late hour? Any guesses anyone?

I goes to the door and low and behold, it's the Thalmor!!! Oh pl*ps.

Thinking they'll just go away, I ignore them... then my parents (or roommate or whoever) recklessly starts running his/her mouth and runs into the living room and opens the door.

The Thalmor grab 'em, bag 'em, rack 'em and stack 'em into a cart for worshipping Talos. Speechless and in awe at the sheer speed of this abduction I step forward and try to start asking questions.

After being told in no certain terms to f8ck off, I grab the keys to my car and start trying to follow them accept, the Imperials have the road blocked off.

After several months of waiting and making inquiries to the Imperials, no one tells me anything. I have no knowledge of where my person is at or how they're doin' - not a damn thing. Imperials sit quietly, albeit politely.

Now, wouldn't that make you mad?

Although, it's also a great way for a certain racist sociopath to gain new recruits so his a$$ can be High King. Just sayin'