Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[nogz]

Dagmar

The bottom line is Hamerfell made it impossible for the Dominion to win and they withdraw their forces. And they did it alone.

Yeah the emperor didn't knew bla-bla whatever, who cares, you think Hammerfell knew they were gonna win? Probably not, but they tried and they did. At the end the emperor lost his will and caved in, Hammerfell didn't and they prevailed. This is not having hindsight, this is what happened.

 

[Mr1cammando]

Dagmar

The bottom line is Hamerfell made it impossible for the Dominion to win and they withdraw their forces. And they did it alone.

Yeah the emperor didn't knew bla-bla whatever, who cares, you think Hammerfell knew they were gonna win? Probably not, but they tried and they did. And the end the emperor lost his will and caved in, Hammerfell didn't and they prevailed. This is not having hindsight, this is what happened.

The Dominion was closing in as the treaty was being signed. The Empire was already losing. If this shows that they are weak, so be it. To the rest of us, it shows plenty of fore-sight, knowing that there would be a round two, and trying to prepare for it.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

lick those boots. jk Dagmar just really knows the Elder Scrolls History.
Plus look at the Singiture that poster has Skyrim and bunnies on lock.

 

[Jeremius]

The Dominion was closing in as the treaty was being signed. The Empire was already losing. If this shows that they are weak, so be it. To the rest of us, it shows plenty of fore-sight, knowing that there would be a round two, and trying to prepare for it.

I guess he did not have the foresight to see the CW (Civil War), but why did he not write off Skyrim and High Rock, other than he was trying to save Cyrodil from the Thalmor, since in doing that would make the empire truly dead and the Thalmor would have no reason to keep the treaty?

 

[Kraad Vestru]

Dagmar

The bottom line is Hamerfell made it impossible for the Dominion to win and they withdraw their forces. And they did it alone.

Yeah the emperor didn't knew bla-bla whatever, who cares, you think Hammerfell knew they were gonna win? Probably not, but they tried and they did. And the end the emperor lost his will and caved in, Hammerfell didn't and they prevailed. This is not having hindsight, this is what happened.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I do agree with you.

The Dominion was closing in as the treaty was being signed. The Empire was already losing. If this shows that they are weak, so be it. To the rest of us, it shows plenty of fore-sight, knowing that there would be a round two, and trying to prepare for it.

The Great War (Book) - The Elder Scrolls Wiki According a leader of one of the legions the main body of the Dominion army was destroyed during the Battle of the Red Ring, effectively crippling the Dominion forces in Cyrodiil.

Edit: (sorry my daughter clicked while I was typing) While the Empire was loosing they were also after the war in a better position that the Dominion. They just didn't realize it. If it wasn't for the WGC, Skyrim wouldn't be involved in a Civil War. Ulfric wouldn't have had a case. If it shows plenty of foresight why wouldn't they liberate Hammerfell and sue for a better position?

 

[nogz]

Jeremius

Oh come on, he will just throw walls of text again and think that means something.. let it be.. let it beeee..

 

[Mr1cammando]

I guess he did not have the foresight to see the CW (Civil War), but why did he not write off Skyrim and High Rock, other than he was trying to save Cyrodil from the Thalmor, since in doing that would make the empire truly dead and the Thalmor would have no reason to keep the treaty?

In war, and in general, you want to keep as much land as possible. If you are a small nation, you will fall. If you are a large nation, you will fall slower. All civilizations end eventualy. The removal of Skyrim and High Rock might never have came up. Hammerfell was only renounced because... plops, I forgot that one. It was for a good reason though. Dagmar where are you?

 

[Seanu Reaves]

Honestly the empire was just following the Roman timeline. Over stretched. This time had a Viking revolt , and nazi elves invading, while the moor successfully beat the Nazi elves back. Just awesome fantasy. But The good points keep them coming im learning alot.

 

[azali100]

Dagmar

The bottom line is Hamerfell made it impossible for the Dominion to win and they withdraw their forces. And they did it alone.

Yeah the emperor didn't knew bla-bla whatever, who cares, you think Hammerfell knew they were gonna win? Probably not, but they tried and they did. At the end the emperor lost his will and caved in, Hammerfell didn't and they prevailed. This is not having hindsight, this is what happened.

I think Dagmar's point was that because he didn't know what he was up against, he could not afford to take the risk. If he counter-attacks and the Thalmor win, the entire race of man would eventually be wiped out. That isn't the kind of thing you can gamble on.

 

[Dagmar]

While the Jarldoms might be hereditary the position of High King is not for a while it has been appointed by the Empire. But traditionally it has been voted on by the Moot a quasi democracy.

This is simply incorrect. The High King has never been appointed by the Empire. It is a hereditary position. This is confirmed not only within the game but by one of the most definitive sources of lore in the Elder Scrolls, the Pocket Guide to the Empire. The Moot hasn't had the authority to appoint the High King without a break in lineage for 4,000 years since the Pact of Chieftans ended the War of Succession that destroyed the First Empire of the Nords. That power was specifically taken away from the Moot after the War of Succession because it was that power which led to the war in the first place. When there is a direct heir to the throne the Moot holds a ceremonial meeting, but it has no actual power to deny the heir to the throne his ascendancy to the position of High King.

Abdul-Mujib Ababneh, a Redguard who wrote Skyrim's Rule based on his limited time in Skyrim didn't understand this, which is why he believes that the Moot elects the High King, and that it always seems to be the Jarl of Haafingar. Because of that he had the misguided notion that since the Empire has good relations with and values the Jarlship of Haafingar, the Empire must somehow be indirectly responsible for the appointment of the High King. Of course, he's completely wrong. The reason why the Jarl of Haafingar always appears to be "elected" by the Moot is because it's a hereditary succession and not by decision of the Moot at all.

If it was Hereditary Jarl Balgruuf would be High King because he's related to Olaf One-Eye.

No he wouldn't. Balgruuf is not a direct lineal descendant of Olaf One-Eye. We know this because we know that the line of succession has been broken 3 times since Olaf One-eye's reign as High King.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

Jeremius

Oh come on, he will just throw walls of text again and think that means something.. let it be.. let it beeee..

Sorry now I look like a trol now but please can we get a blog from two of the best lore guys of both sides stating both biased opinions so people can read both and get the middle ground? or something this fake history is interesting like Tolkien's world.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

There is no evidence that Ulfric is keeping the "racist" policy for his own reasons, and not because the racial tensions between the Nords and the Dunmer are the cause of Ulfric keeping it. Case is closed.

But there is, all Dunmer are forced into the Grey Quarter whether they like it or not. That is a policy, it's called segregation. Forcing them to live in poverty reflects the kind of person Ulfric is.

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[Seanu Reaves]

But there is, all Dunmer are forced into the Grey Quarter whether they like it or not. That is a policy, it's called segregation. Forcing them to live in poverty reflects the kind of person Ulfric is.

Sent from HTC app Tapatalk

Dude I thought we passed this... But yeah Ulfric was kinda to much of a jerk to join. IMO

 

[Kraad Vestru]

This is simply incorrect. The High King has never been appointed by the Empire. It is a hereditary position. This is confirmed not only within the game but by one of the most definitive sources of lore in the Elder Scrolls, the Pocket Guide to the Empire. The Moot hasn't had the authority to appoint the High King without a break in lineage for 4,000 years since the Pact of Chieftans ended the War of Succession that destroyed the First Empire of the Nords. That power was specifically taken away from the Moot after the War of Succession because it was that power which led to the war in the first place. When there is a direct heir to the throne the Moot holds a ceremonial meeting, but it has no actual power to deny the heir to the throne his ascendancy to the position of High King.

Abdul-Mujib Ababneh, a Redguard who wrote Skyrim's Rule based on his limited time in Skyrim didn't understand this, which is why he believes that the Moot elects the High King, and that it always seems to be the Jarl of Haafingar. Because of that he had the misguided notion that since the Empire has good relations with and values the Jarlship of Haafingar, the Empire must somehow be indirectly responsible for the appointment of the High King. Of course, he's completely wrong. The reason why the Jarl of Haafingar always appears to be "elected" by the Moot is because it's a hereditary succession and not by decision of the Moot at all.

No he wouldn't. Balgruuf is not a direct lineal descendant of Olaf One-Eye. We know this because we know that the line of succession has been broken 3 times since Olaf One-eye's reign as High King.

Checking the Lore on UESP again I realize that you are right. I will concede the point to you. I forgot that the person who wrote that book that I was referring to was in fact a Redguard. Point closed onto the next one.

 

[nogz]

azali100

Were the elves fighting for the treaty (slavery) or extermination? In both cases I'd rather fight than let it just happen...

 

[samgurl775]

Dagmar can I just say I love reading your posts.

 

[Jeremius]

But there is, all Dunmer are forced into the Grey Quarter whether they like it or not. That is a policy, it's called segregation. Forcing them to live in poverty reflects the kind of person Ulfric is.

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Forsworn would make better rulers than Nords, Simple opinion but makes sense with how Weak or evil the other leaders are.

 

[Dagmar]

The bottom line is Hamerfell made it impossible for the Dominion to win and they withdraw their forces. And they did it alone.

No that's not the bottom line. It's actually quite irrelevant. Part of your problem is you don't even know what the bottom line is. You questioned what would motivate the Empire to agree to the White-Gold Concordat, and I pointed out that Mede made his decisions based on the information he had at the time, not on some crystal ball that let him look into the future to see what would eventually happen. This is why your constant dependence on referring to the Redguard's successful campaign agains the Dominion is completely irrelevant and meaningless. It's hindsight, and any rational intelligent being knows that it's improper to attribute hindsight in trying to understand or judge anyone's decision making process.

 

[Kraad Vestru]

But there is, all Dunmer are forced into the Grey Quarter whether they like it or not. That is a policy, it's called segregation. Forcing them to live in poverty reflects the kind of person Ulfric is.

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I just have one question? If they supported Ulfric instead of saying it's not their fight and not getting involved. Would they have been treated better? As it is they are treated as potential enemies because this is a you either are on my side or not fight to both sides. (not defending ass hat Angrenor) Anyone who is not with you could be against you. A very paranoid view point granted but there you have it.

 

[azali100]

azali100

Were the elves fighting for the treaty (slavery) or extermination? In both cases I'd rather fight than let it just happen...

And thats why you would make a horrible leader. Remember what I said about honor before reason? No rational person would take that gamble. And the treaty was far from slavery.