No Thieves Guild for me

[Daelon DuLac]

I think that's largely because you only briefly deal with the Silver-Bloods during the Foresworn Conspiracy quests. You can defy and expose them, as well. Which can be somewhat satisfying. Where as you spend basically all of your time in Riften with your nose pretty well flush to Mavin's butt.

In addition to the massive Thieves Guild quest line that involves her at several points, there's also a number of quests outside of the Thieves Guild that revolve around her. Stealing frost, finding the skooma-dealers, the quill of gemination and so on. Then there's quests with her lovely children, as well.

Well, in regards to her kids... While in Riften jail, he certainly knew how to pass the time and made if fly past and frankly, I want to marry that homicidal girl of hers! I would turn her in to the best maker of poison in all of Tamriel!

 

[Dagmar]

...Then there's quests with her lovely children, as well.

They're her grandchildren.

 

[Kalin of High Rock]

They're her grandchildren.

Maven is the mother of Hemming, Ingun, and Sibbi

There is conflicting information about Maven's relationship with the rest of her family. Mjoll refers to Hemming, Ingun, and Sibbi as Maven's children, and Maven has a conversation with Ingun during which each identifies the other by familial relationship. However, Hemming says that Ingun and Sibbi are his children.

In the Skyrim files, Maven's relationship with Ingun and Sibbi is listed as grandparent/grandchild, and Hemming's relationship with Ingun and Sibbi is listed as parent/child, whereas Ingun and Sibbi are listed as siblings to each other. This implies incestuous relationships between Maven and Hemming, thus causing the birth of Ingun and Sibbi to Maven.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Maven_Black-Briar

Seems like that's a matter of some debate.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

They're her grandchildren.

Well then, she is awfully well preserved. What happened to their mother & father?

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Well then, she is awfully well preserved. What happened to their mother & father?

Well, I think I was talking about the good time w/Sibbi and wanting to marry Ingun. Are they not her children? I thought they were.

 

[Nighthiker77]

It sounds like she procreated with her son so that makes her their mother and paternal grandmother.

So Ingun is 75% Maven.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

It sounds like she procreated with her son so that makes her their mother and paternal grandmother.

Hey! This is Skyrim, not W. Virginia! Well... okay... maybe... hmmmm....

 

[Dagmar]

It sounds like she procreated with her son...

I don't think that's the intent. It's simpy dialogue/content inconsistency. At one point the developers envisioned them being her grandchildren and at another her children. On the one hand the game data says they're her grandchildren but on the other there seems to be a lot more content going with the story that they are her children (dialogues from Maven, Sibbi, Ingun and Mjoll as well as a letter from Maven to Anuriel). The issue was discussed for the UESP articles on the Black-Briars and it seems like the admins gave heavy deferrence to the game data which is why the articles consistently refer to Maven as their grandmother and refer to the inconsistent dialogues as bugs.

 

[ShangTsung]

I was right. I find the Thieves Guild quest repulsive. Nothing about it appeals to me. All of you that enjoy it, more power to ya, but, no armor or weapon is worth it. I just can't get past ripping people off, breaking in to their homes and using bully tactics. Not for me.

If I want somebody's stuff, I'll kill them. All this sneaking around and victimizing people is not my idea of a good time.

Started the first few quests and found them boring and repulsive.

Fortunately, Skyrim is not the kind of game that will require you to finish this questline to "win" the game.

Bye bye Thieves Guild. I've got better things to do with my time.

i hate those bastards myself, like the one quest where they want you to go beat up the soon to be wife of that argonian jeweler, what assholes!! i used to force myself to do those quests just to get the skeleton key but now that i know how to mod my saves i can just give myself the item now.. lol my only regret is that it won't let you kill them, if any group deserves to be slaughtered its the thieves guild.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

i hate those bastards myself, like the one quest where they want you to go beat up the soon to be wife of that argonian jeweler, what assholes!! i used to force myself to do those quests just to get the skeleton key but now that i know how to mod my saves i can just give myself the item now.. lol my only regret is that it won't let you kill them, if any group deserves to be slaughtered its the thieves guild.

As I said. Since it's my first run through, I will complete the questline. Perhaps in the future I will try a thief build. Perhaps a thief/assassin. I could easily kill all of them, but, unfortunately most of them are considered essential and, since I'm on console, they are never killable. Looking forward to getting Skyrim and Elder Scrolls online after my new gaming computer gets built so that I can use mods to rid of the a**holes.

 

[ShangTsung]

As I said. Since it's my first run through, I will complete the questline. Perhaps in the future I will try a thief build. Perhaps a thief/assassin. I could easily kill all of them, but, unfortunately most of them are considered essential and, since I'm on console, they are never killable. Looking forward to getting Skyrim and Elder Scrolls online after my new gaming computer gets built so that I can use mods to rid of the a**holes.

same problem here, on xbox so i'll never be able to kill those pricks..

 

[ShadowHunter]

If I had PC, Maven would be dead in every one of my save files

 

[berzum]

theives guild can be fun but the only reason i did it was so i could get the xbox gamerscore lol but it is very dry and repetive, and yes it involves ripping ppl off quite a bit

 

[ShangTsung]

If I had PC, Maven would be dead in every one of my save files

omg ikr! i freakin hate her!

 

[Moirai]

As far as morality goes... it's a video game. Killing bride pixels is no different than killing deathlord pixels imo.

Missed this on my first scoot through the thread. But I wanted to pick up on it, if only to explain what motivates me in games.

You make a very valid point, and I guess it really does come down to personal feelings on the game in question for the most, and how immersed one feels within the game world.

From a personal perspective, story is one of the key important ingredients in entertainment for me. If I don't feel connected with the characters and story on any emotional level then I cannot immerse myself in what is happening, nor do I care what happens.

If the latter is the case, I generally just switch off. I'm not a completionist with games and see no personal value in achievements/trophies/whatever. I'm not interested in playing a game simply to acquire an award which, in real terms, has and adds zero value to my enjoyment or overall experience.

Getting to the point though; yes, I can accept that some are happy to see combat games as nothing more deeply involving than superficial virtualisation with no meaning or consequences. It's just casual fun and distraction. And that's fine. I've no intention or desire to be judgemental here. All is good.

However, for me, something like Tetris falls into that category, and is a game type that bores me intensely. I want to be involved in a story, and to feel some emotional connection with the characters. I want to care, because it connects me with what is happening and enhances my overall experience. And if I care, the weapons and bodies stop being pixels and take on a valid existence of their own within that immersion.

So, yeah. I guess, as with anything else in entertainment, it's all things to all people. Which is good. Diversity generally lends balance to viewpoints.

But the bottom line is; if I do care, I dislike making a kill, irrespective of what that body is actually made of.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

 

[ShangTsung]

Missed this on my first scoot through the thread. But I wanted to pick up on it, if only to explain what motivates me in games.

You make a very valid point, and I guess it really does come down to personal feelings on the game in question for the most, and how immersed one feels within the game world.

From a personal perspective, story is one of the key important ingredients in entertainment for me. If I don't feel connected with the characters and story on any emotional level then I cannot immerse myself in what is happening, nor do I care what happens.

If the latter is the case, I generally just switch off. I'm not a completionist with games and see no personal value in achievements/trophies/whatever. I'm not interested in playing a game simply to acquire an award which, in real terms, has and adds zero value to my enjoyment or overall experience.

Getting to the point though; yes, I can accept that some are happy to see combat games as nothing more deeply involving than superficial virtualisation with no meaning or consequences. It's just casual fun and distraction. And that's fine. I've no intention or desire to be judgemental here. All is good.

However, for me, something like Tetris falls into that category, and is a game type that bores me intensely. I want to be involved in a story, and to feel some emotional connection with the characters. I want to care, because it connects me with what is happening and enhances my overall experience. And if I care, the weapons and bodies stop being pixels and take on a valid existence of their own within that immersion.

So, yeah. I guess, as with anything else in entertainment, it's all things to all people. Which is good. Diversity generally lends balance to viewpoints.

But the bottom line is; if I do care, I dislike making a kill, irrespective of what that body is actually made of.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

couldn't have summed it up better myself, there are some games that are just mindless violence and some that are more like watching an interesting movie in which you control the outcome, skyrim is one of those games imo and depending on what type of character i'm playing i prefer to act the part, if its an evil mage type character i'll make sure i slaughter as many innocents as possible, however when i'm playing an honorable knight type build it doesn't make a lot of sense for this character to just walk into a bar and beat the crap out of a woman just cause some random guy i met in a town said so..

 

[LotusEater]

Missed this on my first scoot through the thread. But I wanted to pick up on it, if only to explain what motivates me in games.

You make a very valid point, and I guess it really does come down to personal feelings on the game in question for the most, and how immersed one feels within the game world.

From a personal perspective, story is one of the key important ingredients in entertainment for me. If I don't feel connected with the characters and story on any emotional level then I cannot immerse myself in what is happening, nor do I care what happens.

If the latter is the case, I generally just switch off. I'm not a completionist with games and see no personal value in achievements/trophies/whatever. I'm not interested in playing a game simply to acquire an award which, in real terms, has and adds zero value to my enjoyment or overall experience.

Getting to the point though; yes, I can accept that some are happy to see combat games as nothing more deeply involving than superficial virtualisation with no meaning or consequences. It's just casual fun and distraction. And that's fine. I've no intention or desire to be judgemental here. All is good.

However, for me, something like Tetris falls into that category, and is a game type that bores me intensely. I want to be involved in a story, and to feel some emotional connection with the characters. I want to care, because it connects me with what is happening and enhances my overall experience. And if I care, the weapons and bodies stop being pixels and take on a valid existence of their own within that immersion.

So, yeah. I guess, as with anything else in entertainment, it's all things to all people. Which is good. Diversity generally lends balance to viewpoints.

But the bottom line is; if I do care, I dislike making a kill, irrespective of what that body is actually made of.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

Couldn't agree more. The point I was trying to make was that morality doesn't really come into play at all. The level of morality from which I approach the game is completely based on the character type.

Few examples...

Breton Artifact Confiscator- This guy I made for the sole purpose of clearing Skyrim of all dangerous, power hungry artifacts. Especially the daedra artifacts which had the power to affect entire towns. Innocent blood had to be spilled to secure these artifacts and keep them safe, but the death of one innocent will save hundreds or even thousands of people long term.

Wood Elf Recluse- This guy is completely independent and poor. He lives in a shack and he loves animals, catching jumping salmon and potions. He ignores most tombs and temples or anything where draugr may frequent and opts for more natural settings likes caves and vales. He earns a living turning aggressive animal skins into armor and he mines when he can. He will gladly kill an attacking animal and claim the skin, however passive animals are left alone. Sometimes he must resort to petty theft in order to acquire the more expensive potion ingredients. There is no joy in the theft for him therefore he will never join the TG.

Orc Vindicator- This guy was born into Orc hierarchy and was immediately separated from his parents at birth. He's a prisoner in the beginning and has little memory from his past other than his hatred for his fellow orcs. His plan is to kill all orcs he encounters and ask questions later. This killing spree of course draws the attention of the Dark Brotherhood. He joins knowing that no other guild would be able to provide him the very specific tools he needs for revenge. Assassinating the blacksmith in Markarth is no small feat.


Anyway, just a few examples of profiles that approach the world from very different views. All do things unsavory from time to time.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

If I had PC, Maven would be dead in every one of my save files

Not me. I like Maven.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

theives guild can be fun but the only reason i did it was so i could get the xbox gamerscore lol but it is very dry and repetive, and yes it involves ripping ppl off quite a bit

Well, it is the "Thieves" Guild. I guess I should have expected that there would have been some "ripping off".

 

[Moirai]

Couldn't agree more. The point I was trying to make was that morality doesn't really come into play at all. The level of morality from which I approach the game is completely based on the character type.

I think I understand what you're saying (please correct me if I'm wrong though - long day). After all, the game itself imposes only a basic premise of 'morality' in the form of crime detection. Other than that, it's entirely up to the player to project their own personal or fictional values on events and actions depending on how they choose to play their character.

And that's fine. Until the game presents you with an event that runs contrary to your characters chosen morality, whichever way that goes. Do you just adapt your characters morality to work around that potential clash, or continue to strictly RP it to form and struggle to reconcile your actions?

For me, that's the potential crux of the issue.

It's not a major one in the greater scheme of things, admittedly. But can still cause players some trouble, or possibly distress if they feel that they cannot legitimately RP around the presented issue and stay within their character's personality.

Ugh...I think I need some coffee...