What is most important when you are a Thief?

[SkeevyLittleElf]

I plan on basing my next character as a thief. I was wondering what is a more important skill Pick pocketing, lock picking or sneaking? I will be upgrading my one-hand skill with one of these so I can have some defense/offense against enemies. I like to focus usually on 1 or 2 skills at a time so they will build up faster. So what is most important when playing a thief pick pocketing, lock picking or sneaking? Or is it just about preference?

 

[Sevrin]

Sneaking and pickpocketing. You can pickpocket keys to many places until you're ready to train lockpicking.

But it's mostly preference.

 

[Dagmar]

IMO of the three skills you mentioned, Sneak is the only one worth investing perk points. It's not even necessary but it will make doing many of the quests the canon way (with stealth and as little violence as possible) easier. Take the perks on the left branch. Lockpicking perks are a wast of perk points. Your eventual success rate on picking locks without them is guaranteed provided you have a enough lockpicks. While Pickpocket perks can be amusing, they're hardly essential.

In the interests of full disclosure I didn't invest any perk points into those three skills and I had no problems completing all the Thieves Guild quests the canon way. My perks went into the stealth skills Light Armor and Alchemy with the rest going into One Handed, Dual Wielding, Archery, Smithing and Enchanting.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Well if you want to be the best thief that ever roamed skyrim, being able to walk into a well lit room, circle the entire place and walk out, with everybody's shoes and jewels and leaving everybody wondering why their feet are cold then pickpocket is fun.

 

[Su8tle]

^ pretty much what she said! Sneak, light armour, one handed / dual wield, archery, smithing and enchanting...

With no perks in lock picking, at only 63 skill, I can pick master locks in 3-4 picks. You just have to know the mini game.

 

[MushroomGenius]

I would agree with Dagmar on pretty much all of her points. The only reason I see investing into Pickpocketing is if you insist on roleplaying the character completely. And by this I mean, no reloads on failed pickpocketing attempts.

Aside from the first "initiation" quest, I don't think you are actually required to pickpocket, or reverse pickpocket anyone. Yes, there are radiant jobs, but you don't have to take those, you could opt for different jobs. But again, if immersion and role-play are attractive to you, I could see investing some points here.

Lockpicking doesn't need investing.

 

[Necromis]

I would disagree on spending perks in pickpocket and lock picking, but only because I want to pick items off a person while they are wearing/using them, and I am on the PC where IMO the perks of lock picking make it easier to find the sweet spot. At least until the skeleton key, then nothing matters on locks if you don't return it. LOL

 

[Dagmar]

The Lockpicking perks may make it easier but they're not necessary. If perk points rained down like candy I would take them, but since they are limited and there are perks I can invest in that give me better benefits I choose to invest them elsewhere. By way of example, because of my Enchantment and Alchemy builds I have two custom pieces of enchanted equipment called the Guild Master's Ring and the Guild Master's Talisman that each give 47% bonuses to Lockpicking and Pickpocket. When I wear them it's child's play to open any lock and when I drink a 130% Fortify Pickpocket potion my success rate maxes out for pickpocketing items.

Other than for amusement value I don't see the point of being able to pickpocket a person's worn items:

 

[Sevrin]

Other than for amusement value I don't see the point of being able to pickpocket a person's worn items

Bragging rights as the sneakiest thief in all the multiverse?

 

[Jbcarey]

imho there are four skilltrees needed for a 'Thief' - and they are 'Illusion' (invisibilty and quiet casting), Sneak, pickpocket and Lockpicking.

I'm more a stealth Assassin, so I haven't invested in pickpocketing, (at all), and I rarely see the benefits (besides stealing some-ones weapons and armour for an even easier kill)

 

[Necromis]

Well for pickpocketing items that a person has equiped and/or is wearing there can be great benefits. Especially if you would like to have two Blades of Woe. If you are roleplaying a Thief, as the OP indicates and are going for the best thief type character, then spending points in trees dedicated to a Thief are important. From a Min-Max point of view it might not matter, but from a RP view it is very important.

 

[Dagmar]

Well for pickpocketing items that a person has equiped and/or is wearing there can be great benefits. Especially if you would like to have two Blades of Woe. If you are roleplaying a Thief, as the OP indicates and are going for the best thief type character, then spending points in trees dedicated to a Thief are important. From a Min-Max point of view it might not matter, but from a RP view it is very important.

There's a bit of irony comparing your first sentence to your last one. Using an exploit to get two Blades of Woe violates the role playing aspect (and it's an assassin's weapon).

While developing the stealth skills themselves is important, investing perk points in all or even most of them isn't important from a role playing POV. If you can get the skills to function well for role playing a thief that's all that matters, and you don't need to invest perks in most of the stealth skill trees to get that effect.

 

[Necromis]

LOL I understand what you are saying. That is why I kinda pointed out the options of min-max vs RP. Me, if RP a thief, depending on the style of thief, say a *cutpurse*, depends on perks taken. If I am a cutpurse then I would max my skills and perks so that I could walk up to the Queen and steal her jewels from around her neck while I sweet talk her panties off, too.

 

[skyrimaddict1323]

IMO of the three skills you mentioned, Sneak is the only one worth investing perk points. It's not even necessary but it will make doing many of the quests the canon way (with stealth and as little violence as possible) easier. Take the perks on the left branch. Lockpicking perks are a wast of perk points. Your eventual success rate on picking locks without them is guaranteed provided you have a enough lockpicks. While Pickpocket perks can be amusing, they're hardly essential.

In the interests of full disclosure I didn't invest any perk points into those three skills and I had no problems completing all the Thieves Guild quests the canon way. My perks went into the stealth skills Light Armor and Alchemy with the rest going into One Handed, Dual Wielding, Archery, Smithing and Enchanting.

I have to disagree with your opinion on the lockpicking perks. Yes, it's plenty easy enough to pick locks without them, but it's even easier if your lockpick can't break.

Actually, i have to disagree with your opinion on perks all together. Whether you're roleplaying or not, the perks are there to make you better, and unless you're roleplaying as a character who dies all the time and somehow comes back to life last time they slept or entered/exited a cell, alot of them are necessary.

I do agree that sneak, lockpicking, and pickpocket are the best for a theif character, but i would recommend looking at all the perks in those trees and just picking the ones that will be helpful or you just think would be cool to have.

 

[Dagmar]

... unless you're roleplaying as a character who dies all the time and somehow comes back to life last time they slept or entered/exited a cell, alot of them are necessary....

Please explain how your character will die all the time if he or she doesn't have Lockpicking perks or Pickpocket perks.

 

[skyrimaddict1323]

Please explain how your character will die all the time if he or she doesn't have Lockpicking perks or Pickpocket perks.

As always you're taking my words out of context to try and make yourself right..

The second part of my post was refering to perks in general, which was clearly stated.

Also, these are only opinions, i'm not saying yours are wrong, i'm just saying i don't agree with them. There is no right or wrong when it comes to opinions.

 

[Dagmar]

As always you're taking my words out of context to try and make yourself right..

The second part of my post was refering to perks in general, which was clearly stated.

I didn't take your words out of context. Maybe it's clearly stated inside your mind but your words taken in context are either to the contrary or are incoherent. You specifically referenced my opinion, and I offered no opinion on "perks in general." The only way your statement makes any sense is if you were referring to an opinion I actually offered in this thread, which was my opinion about the Stealth perk trees for a thief. Otherwise you're simply tilting at windmills.

 

[DrunkenMage]

If you plan of roleplaying a Thief then go with thief skills, if you just plan on making another normal character than can do everything, then go with the stealth and all those other skills.

It's all up to you, how you want to play your game, if you want to be a thief that can pickpocket anyone + the 100 extra carry weight perk go for it. Some may say Pickpocket is a waste of time, you don't need it, that is their view, try it out and see if you like it, if you have trouble with locks, add perks in the lockpicking then to help you out, I mean unless you plan to be there for 15 minutes trying to open this one chest then to find it only has crap in it. But you might be good with locks, if you are, then don't worry about lockpicking tree.

 

[wyld]

I plan on basing my next character as a thief. I was wondering what is a more important skill Pick pocketing, lock picking or sneaking? I will be upgrading my one-hand skill with one of these so I can have some defense/offense against enemies. I like to focus usually on 1 or 2 skills at a time so they will build up faster. So what is most important when playing a thief pick pocketing, lock picking or sneaking? Or is it just about preference?

(long-ish)
note: these preferences lean toward an archer assassin.

primary:
1) shadow stone (near riften; go invisible once a day)
2) skeleton key (thieves guild guest, but don't finish out after obtaining the key)
3) sneak: 100 (to "hide in plain sight," and also uber sneak attack and critical damage)
4) archery: 100
or
4) one-handed: 100 (i prefer archery to keep my distance and use the occasional dual-weapon as back up)
5) magika/health/stamina ratio: 1/3/10 (stamina is more important than health for sneaks; however, you *must* kill your target -- can be done a low as one hit with sneak-attack plus critical -- before it hurts you, thus the high-stealth/low-health. i've downed dragrons and dragon priests with one hit using dual-wield).
6) race: (any could be built, but these have pertinent benefits)
- khajit: stealth; nigh vision; unarmed attack; alchemy
- wood elf: archery; stealth; poison/disease resist
- redguard: one-hand; archery; smithing
7) armor: dark brotherhood (shrouded) set or nightingale set (i wear the shrouded set, but swap out armor for the nightingale -- extra stamina is more important to me than poison resist. it gives the nightingale armor a cool visual variation).

secondary (but equally important):
1) the "triad"
- alchemy, 5/5, physician, benefactor and poisoiner
- smithing, right path of perk tree
- enchanting, 5/5, middle path of perk tree, and soul squeezer
alchemy to mix uber strong potions/poison; smithing to craft high-damage daedric weapons; and enchanting to add useful effects to items. don't squander perk points on anything else until these are met; some perks will naturally advance as you go.
2) invisibility and stun potions (this is where alchemy matters)
3) fortify attack potions, e.g. marksman, archery, one-handed, etc.
4) poisons: damage/ravage health-magika-stamina, depending on your target
5) fortify alchemy and smithing potions
6) fortify alchemy and smithing "set": ring/necklace/gauntlets combo to double-enchant fortify alchemy and smithing. then armor for smithing and hat for alchemy, as one skill cannot be enchanted on the other item. swap out respective item for the task. ring and necklace are negligible, but use elven armor and gauntlets because they're very light. all four item should be worn while tasking to get the x4 bonus (in addition to skill fortify potions). yes, they stack! there's lots of optimization reading on the web; won't go into too much details here.

supporting, or "nice to have"
1) mehrune's razor (small chance of instant kill)
2) sanguine rose (summons a dremora for those tight situations)
3) white phial (back up heal potion that refills daily)
4) dragonbane (obvious)
5) dragonrend (shout; bring dragon down from flying around to engage)
6) oghma infinium ("discerning the transmundane" quest; power-boost sneak skills)

keep an eye out to buy for use in enchantment:
1) a banish weapon (great for enchanting-to-sell, but only available at higher level)
2) a stun weapon
3) a soul trap weapon (enchanting requires *lots* of soul gems -- powerful ones for your own use and cheapest for enchant-to-sell. always use a soul trap weapon when you can).

i might come back and add a couple more things...

results:
- i can "hide in plain sight."
- there is nothing i cannot steal. almost nothing.
- smithing/alchemy allowed (at this point) daedric dagger with 70+ and bows with 170+ base damage. some targets can survive up to three arrows; no one (except alduin, so far) can take more than 1 hit of the dual-wield daggers sneak attack.
- enchanted arrows stun targets, and before they can act, they're dead on the 2nd or 3rd arrow. often, i use a soul trap bow on lower level ones, which die outright on the first shot and fills my gems -- remember to harvest souls for your gems!).
- bosses get the invisibility treatment (where i occasionally can't get a good sneak on them). they don't even know what hit them because they're dead on the first hit.
- tougher bosses (i.e. dragons) get invisibility, poisons and fortified attacks.
- skeleton keys get me into anything that allows lock-picking (so don't even waste one skill point on this).
- i spend an equal amount of time adventuring to harvest souls; obtaining ingredients and mixing potions/poison; and smithing/enchanting to sell/use. the last exercise is a great way to get loads of gold for your small investment: craft only iron daggers and enchant the best effect on it. a dagger worth 10gp jumps up to *at least* 10x with banish on it.

i played a pc which i completed 95% of the quests at level 40. that pc had to buy everything since she didn't know the "triad" skills and things i've learned. with this new pc, i've spent up to about level 35 doing/obtaining all the stuff i recommended above. now, i'm setting out to adventure, doing quests. it's more fun this way because i can advance beyond 40 without being bored with the game.

there is no quest that this build cannot do, or that i find difficult to do. i used to fear bosses and dragons, but now they're just fun to pwn. i actually fell over-empowered, but it's certainly better than getting pwnd!
.