WHY SKYRIM?

[mai'iqsaidiwasstupid]

A while ago I made a post on this forum about my dismay at the sight of all of the poorly implemented elf characters in skyrim (you don't have to read it as we will be discussing it in detail). It didn't surprise me to see that people could only agree with a moiety of the points I made or that 6 people told me to f#$% off (f#$% you by the way ). It did surprise me, however, to see that nobody actually conceded that I was right. There is of course allot of conjecture about the lore of the game which the game leaves to be inferred by the player. At first I though this was very lame; that something as crucial to a fiction as the character of the species has yet to be nailed down (i'm talking about elves by the way). It just made me angry to see that now at their 5th installment that the series has actually taken a step backward, but now after seeing some of the responses I have received I wonder if its just me maybe I don't know the elves of the elder scrolls universe anymore. please tell me what you have taken out of the shallow experience that is skyrim.

as far as their capacity in relativity to humans...

A. Smarter than humans- they take credit for the institution of magics that make Tamreil more advanced than our world could ever be. They are as wise and intelligent as they're said to be in daggerfall, worthy of the obeisance of all other beings. the only bias a person have against the elves is their callous mindset (high elves), or the dark elves' discourteous demeanor (also their godless outlook and pain-stricken looking bodies ). perhaps you dislike wood elves because you harbor a deep contempt for life or perhaps the nature of your issue is more civil. fighting with and against these guys is something special.

B. As smart as humans- some are smart enough to think ahead for their thousand year life, and yet some don't. This point being entirely plausible, but boring in perspective to the game. The game does seam to contradict this as many of the elves that exhibit a lack of perspicacious understanding of the province that they would choose to make their home in. kind of a big deal.

C. Dumber than humans- It just so happens that elves are complete fools wasting the days away in blissful arrogance, oblivious of their stupidity. They are canon fodder in combat.

D. All of the above (I'm completely unoriginal, and I just wanted to push one of the buttons).

note that I didn't mention the Orismer. This is because i like the orismer in Skyrim and are now my new favorite, as well as one of the few races I like. My favorite races now are the: Redguards, Argonians, Kahjiit, Orismer, Imperials, and Bretton.

I will admit that the dark elves do look troubled and the High elves are sexy tall. but that just makes me feel like sh!t when I kill them. I'm f#$%ing sick of typing, AND I'M NOT HAPPY. thanks Skyrim.

 

[Rayven]

If smarter = more learned and potentially wiser, I'd take the elves. Men live short flashy lives. There's rarely enough time for them to figure themselves out, nevermind the inner workings of the universe. I would expect a race of longer lived beings to have a bit of a head start on that sort of thing.

Now, this does include some bias I can't pull completely out of my mindset. I do think in terms of Tolkein elves an awful lot so I know that the personal standard I tend to set. And I know TES != JRRT. It's just a bit of a burden of bias

 

[mai'iqsaidiwasstupid]

If smarter = more learned and potentially wiser, I'd take the elves. Men live short flashy lives. There's rarely enough time for them to figure themselves out, nevermind the inner workings of the universe. I would expect a race of longer lived beings to have a bit of a head start on that sort of thing.

Now, this does include some bias I can't pull completely out of my mindset. I do think in terms of Tolkein elves an awful lot so I know that the personal standard I tend to set. And I know TES != JRRT. It's just a bit of a burden of bias

Thanks for the impute.

 

[brandon]

have and probably will always have utter distaste for the high elves of tamreil. i hate theyre arrogant attitudes. and the way that theyre even more stuck up then they are arrogant makes me even more mad at them.and now that the thalmore have banned the worship of talos i kill them all on site. it doesnt matter where i am they will die. or i die trying to kill them. now as for the dunmer and bosmer i have no quarrel with them. the dunmer are my favorite race to play as. ive never played as a bosmer but seeing as theyre as tall as i am short in real life i have more in common with them then any other race. but i will say that elves may be more book smart(magic smart) then people that doesnt make them right.

 

[mai'iqsaidiwasstupid]

Now, this does include some bias I can't pull completely out of my mindset. I do think in terms of Tolkein elves an awful lot so I know that the personal standard I tend to set. And I know TES != JRRT. It's just a bit of a burden of bias

Very true, but biases are what help us formulate a decision as to whether or not we appreciate cats if we are allergic. so biases could be helpful (particularly when dealing with Videogames).regardless of what biases I do or don't possess I'm fairly sure that the answer to my question is one of these four (that is: more intelligent, less intelligent, as intelligent,etc.).
The empire of elves strikes back seemed cool at first, but by the end of my first play through I had very little respect for the Thalmor (as enemies or otherwise).
My answer is C. All I have to do is hit them a few times and they're out of my way for good. that is if I still had time to waist in skyrim (i've got other things to do in the other games). to me Skyrim is the depressing elder scrolls, and that would be my honest biased opinion.

 

[Teritus]

Smarter doesn't mean how much knowledge you have, but how you can manipulate and control the knowledge.

 

[mai'iqsaidiwasstupid]

Smarter doesn't mean how much knowledge you have, but how you can manipulate and control the knowledge.

that's WHAT I THOUGHT so my question to you is: are they better at retaining knowledge or processing information, or what? I really can't tell at this point. in daggerfal it says that elves are extremely intelligent. is this because the majority of elves have learned more or is it because they are capable of more?

 

[mai'iqsaidiwasstupid]

that's WHAT I THOUGHT so my question to you is: are they better at retaining knowledge or processing information, or what? I really can't tell at this point. in daggerfal it says that elves are extremely intelligent. is this because the majority of elves have learned more or is it because they are capable of more?

I did just post two questions right there. uhhh? sorry.

 

[Teritus]

I think it's just because they were raised differently; different genetics and such. They are apparently supposed to be the most intelligent race in the game.

 

[Rayven]

that's WHAT I THOUGHT so my question to you is: are they better at retaining knowledge or processing information, or what? I really can't tell at this point. in daggerfal it says that elves are extremely intelligent. is this because the majority of elves have learned more or is it because they are capable of more?

In some ways I think it's both. I think if you're going to be that long lived, you have to have some evolutionary advantage. Just about anything goes in a world that has magic, but you could even say something like their brains process more efficiently or something and come up with an appropriate biological reason for enhanced learning and such.

 

[mai'iqsaidiwasstupid]

In some ways I think it's both. I think if you're going to be that long lived, you have to have some evolutionary advantage. Just about anything goes in a world that has magic, but you could even say something like their brains process more efficiently or something and come up with an appropriate biological reason for enhanced learning and such.

That's probably true, but I found it very difficult to appreciate the elves of skyrim. in my opinion skyrim could have used some more unique characters from many races, and their combat prowess isn't characteristic of them either (although most characters in the game are too easy, even on the higher difficulties). though all of these would just be my problems. anyway I hope your right.

 

[mai'iqsaidiwasstupid]

They are apparently supposed to be the most intelligent race in the game.

Yea, that's the impression I got. how about fluff* the elder scrolls. I know JRPGs that don't make me deal with this pl*ps!
I'm not sure if I can go back to skyrim at all! The gameplay's dumbed down too much, and one of the last things skyrim has is my patience!

 

[Teritus]

Wait, so you're not liking Skyrim at the moment?

 

[hexperiment]

Wait. You are not liking TES because you feel that they misrepresented the elves? Also, I always don't get it when people say they don't like the gameplay because it got 'dumbed down too much'. Is the gameplay always better if they are 'smarter' or more complex? Skyrim did take out several gameplay variations (lesser spell effects, no spell-making) but it also added some (added smithing, renovated alchemy, enchanting and speech, dual-wielding, fire, frost and shock works differently). I really want to know what is making you so angry at the game. Also, I can't believe you compared Skyrim to JRPG... I would like to see you elaborate a little on that.

 

[mai'iqsaidiwasstupid]

Wait. You are not liking TES because you feel that they misrepresented the elves? Also, I always don't get it when people say they don't like the gameplay because it got 'dumbed down too much'. Is the gameplay always better if they are 'smarter' or more complex? Skyrim did take out several gameplay variations (lesser spell effects, no spell-making) but it also added some (added smithing, renovated alchemy, enchanting and speech, dual-wielding, fire, frost and shock works differently). I really want to know what is making you so angry at the game. Also, I can't believe you compared Skyrim to JRPG... I would like to see you elaborate a little on that.

thanks for the response awesome jumping cat lady-person

You are not liking TES because you feel that they misrepresented the elves?

No. I don't give a flying fluff* about any of the characters in that game. that seems to be the appropriate attitude in regard to characters in the game. ummmmmmm? but yea, the elves were sort of my favorite characters. There are no such things as real elves to be appropriately or inappropriately represented. Bethesda can do whatever they want with them.

As far as the gameplay you forgot to mention the exclusion of weapon and armor degradation and numerous spell effects. skyrim is very fun, not as fun as some of the other games, but even with my overly simplistic characters I do find ways to enjoy it. I do miss: melee damage reflection, sanctuary spell effects (i also think it would be pretty cool if some enemies used levitation). After playing the game, of course I can't say that skyrim wasn't meant to be different from the previous games (but it was a very small step forward). I honestly think the game could do with more countering magics, though I haven't upgraded the school of magics that amalgamate the counter-defensive magical properties with whatever.

Also, I can't believe you compared Skyrim to JRPG... I would like to see you elaborate a little on that.

We could start with the fact that they're both RPGs. The Elder Scrolls is based off of the aged JRPG concept of managing three renewable resources: health, stamina, magicka. you have to manage those, or you'll most likely find yourself dead.

The game could do with a few more characters for me to care about. what are the implications of the thalmor going about habitually killing any and everyone who doesn't answer their questions quick enough?Are they all completely ignorant to how paranoid, and thoughtlessly violent they are? they can't see a more safe and logical approach to their conquest? or, do they not have any time to spare on theology?
they had an army of thousands to invade the mainland. thousands of those elves died. just sounds foolish.

Also, too many honor bound psychopathic nords, or at least too many to kill (i love killing good enemies, and I feel bad about killing any one else who is just too dumb to know not to point a weapon at me [especially when i'm the only one alive that can save the world]).

my answers
A. = good guess.
B. is probably true, (but I think it's kind of boring).
C. is what i will be taking with me out of skyrim.

 

[hexperiment]

thanks for the response awesome jumping cat lady-person

You're welcome.

I was under an impression that you didn't like the game for some arbitrary reason but you have proven some points. Personally, I don't think Skyrim is 'dumbed down' all that much since it includes many elements like I mentioned while some 'dumbing down' had some gameplay reason. For example, they took out armor and weapon degradation because that feature was annoying and pointlessly boring item-management element (at least IMO). All I had to do was click on the hammer a few times in Oblivion. It was funny how one skill was devoted just for that (Armorer). But in Skyrim, they took that out and added Smithing which does so much more: creating and improving armor. I think weapon/armor degradation could have gone with Smithing skill together but that would make Smithing a skill that is required to use for every character, which isn't all that fun in terms of role-playing value so I think lack of weapon/armor degradation is well justified. On another missing feature, spell-making, while fun, made the game too easy to abuse. I made a spell in Oblivion that raised my speechcraft, barter and armorer up to 100 for 1 second to abuse the pause of time when talking to NPCs or opening up a menu. Well, you can still abuse Skyrim's game mechanic but they are not all obvious now.

But there are some left-out features that are just inexcusable. I mentioned that Skyrim does have lesser spell effects. While I still do have fun playing the game just as you do but it baffles WHY they excluded some spell effects. Why did they take out silence, reflect damage and many more spell effects? There is absolute no reason to not include them into the game. Single player game such as Skyrim doesn't strictly need 'balance'. In fact, since there is no spell-making, it would be balanced anyhow. It's almost like they forgot to include those effects into the game...

I think Thalmors are just there to be minor but very antagonizing faction. I don't know. They are just jerks. The type of people you LOVE to hate. There's always one in any movie or video game. I think it is worth reading some materials about them to really get the depth of their agenda and everything. TES games are way better if you try to get yourself involved by reading all its history and lore. But I do feel where you are coming from. The NPC interaction in Skyrim is... lackluster. You'd think they improved since Oblivion but it feels just as obvious from last time. Even with more voice actors, I can recognize same voices too often, especially when everyone in Skyrim feels like telling his life story if I stand within 10 feet away from him. Also, I don't feel emotionally attach to many quest stories. But then again, this is western RPG which is based more on action and less on plot. JRPGs usually focus heavily on stories and characters so the battles feel way more epic in some sense. WRPGs are just looking for some excuse so that you can kill some big monsters. Now, the problem is that Skyrim, as TES games and open-world sandbox, should be just as immersive with the world. I've read its lore and it is a very immersive experience. But the awkward NPC interactions and uninspired quest-plots really hit the game hard. This is probably a very harsh criticism and there are few things they did right but they could have done a lot better IMO.

That's my bit of criticism. The game is still very fun to play and I guess that is what matters. I've been role-playing throughout the entire game and it's really fun. With all honesty, I never expected Bethesda to do a perfect job with Skyrim. My real anticipation of this game is its modding community. If you play on PC, you should really check out some of the mods. It's them who fixes and add a lot of the materials to the game.