Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[LegateFasendil]

He's still connected to the highest leadership in the Stormcloaks, and in his own mind acts upon their behalf threatening Dunmer with torture or worse. The city guard do nothing, there is no mention from Ulfric or Galmar that they disprove of his actions, no letters of warnings etc.

If Ulfric can't keep the peace right outside his palace, then what right does he have to rule the country? They say Elisif is inexperienced, but if Ulfric's city is his experience? Then he is one of the most crap rulers in Tamriel. His Steward doesn't do anything official, so who is ruling the city? Even the retarded Jarl in Falkreath has his Steward doing things.

Galmar's brother may not be a Stormcloak, but the Stormcloaks certainly aren't doing pl*** about his activities. I judge a ruler by how their kingdom is doing and at the moment... Ulfric has the most depressing, oppressive and racially discriminating Hold in the Nine Holds. That has to say something about his ruling ability.

Still doesn't make him a Stormcloak despite being the blood brother of the second commander of the Stormcloaks. He's just a drunken lout who wants to know why the Dunmers from his city doesn't help out for the cause.

As far as Ulfric being the most crap rulers in Tamriel... I object to this. Ulfric may not win the best Jarl award, at least he isn't corrupted by wealth. He doesn't let the most wealthy individual control him like you see in Markarth and in Riften, and he isn't lazy by making his Steward practically run his hold like you see in Solitude.

Your judgement is corrupted by your own bias opinions. You are an Imperial supporter and an Empire lover. You think inside the box, and refuse to explore the beauty of what is given to you from the outside. You are blind by what you see. If you think for a moment that the situation in Windhelm out beats the current situation in Markarth... Then by Talos I need a drink so I can understand your logic. How can you sit there telling me that Windhelm/Eastmarch is the "most depressing, oppressive and racially discriminating Hold in the Nine Holds" when Markarth is by far worst when slavery is being practice. Is the treatment of the Dunmers and the Argonians considered to be far worst than what goes on inside Markarths slave prison? Many of the Bretens are being forced to join the forsworn because of the unfair treatment that they get in the Reach, and land owners are bullied (Sometimes murdered) to sell their lands.

Ahhh hold up there bro-ham.

Rolff Stone-Fist is the brother of Ulfric's right hand man. You can't dismiss that anymore than we could say don't pay any attention to the Empire's Cousin, Victoria Vici. These people are 'part of the ruling family'. I don't care if he is or he izt wearing a Stormcloak shirt or a tattoo of a bear on his arse. He's close to the source and he isn't alone. The inn keeper is also racist. It's at the root of that city and those people put Ulfric on the throne -with voices crying out for vengeance- when he returned from Markarth. People like Rolff want Ulfric to be king for a reason. Have you sat down and had fellowship with Mr Rolff after beating his head in? Remember when he says the part about how the High King never asked anyone before letting the Dark Elves in? Like that shopkeeper dude in Falkreath, it's the same deal with him. He's not a Stormcloak soldier, he's a supporter and a sympathizer. That's what Rolff is because the Stormcloak agenda justifies his feelings. I suppose the fact that he's with a former Stormcloak soldier while berating that Dark Elf is no coincidence either.

He don't have to get on his knees for Ulfric to be in his corner... just one of his sumpathizers. I would think a true Stormcloak would be ok with something like this because many of the good folks at club Stormcloak have separate feelings, but what they all has in common is that all things Empire including the Gov has to be wiped clean and their people put in charge because of the 'mistakes' of the past.

***

I'm not going to hate on Ulfric. I've done enough of that in my day. Ok, Ulfric's not the worst.

***

Dude, you are the last person on here to be talking to people about judgement. I've read some of your posts man. Just like Elisif being forced to marry someone is 'thinking outside the box'. You know, you Stormcloaks are like, "Killing the Empire and anyone is not with us is against us" and it's like this is the only way. No man, it's not the only way.

If anything... look. Stormcloaks are the ones not thinking outside the box. Except for those few of you who are like, "Well we'll rebuild Skyrim and follow our hearts" Ok, yeah those guys are thinking outside the box. However ~ Most of the time, this is not the case. Because even for those guys there, Ulfric is going to do whatever Ulfric wants. You understand? So really, the out of the box thinking will not be allowed by the Stormcloaks. For example...

When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen.

Supporting the EMPIRE is not necessarily thinking outside the box, but WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Understand now? Ulfric's cause is charismatic, kind of like a Religious following in a way. Which I don't care if that's your thing... but when your heart is full of one man's words and his vision you're not going to want to think outside the box. You can't, it's against the rules.

The Empire on the other hand, what do they think about... #1 Actually spending their own damn money to fix Skyrim's problems... #2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric... #3 Trying to think their way out of their problems rather than throw blood at their problems and I could on. I could go on and on and on about this because I'm tired of being judged as an Imperial when I KNOW I've damn well done more than enough to try and meet the Stormcloaks half way and no I am not just talking about on this forum.

And lastly, ULFIC who decided *by himself* there was no other way for Nords to resolve their differences with the Empir and he is also the one who started killing people. FURTHERMORE, Ulfric also FORCED his way on the Nords by not allowing the Moot to meet. Aside from this action being treason, any peaceful solution that could have been worked out along with your 'outside box thinking' all was flushed down the toilet by your man, Ulfric Stormcloak.

Tell me more about how the Imperials don't think outside the box.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

He's still connected to the highest leadership in the Stormcloaks, and in his own mind acts upon their behalf threatening Dunmer with torture or worse. The city guard do nothing, there is no mention from Ulfric or Galmar that they disprove of his actions, no letters of warnings etc.

If Ulfric can't keep the peace right outside his palace, then what right does he have to rule the country? They say Elisif is inexperienced, but if Ulfric's city is his experience? Then he is one of the most crap rulers in Tamriel. His Steward doesn't do anything official, so who is ruling the city? Even the retarded Jarl in Falkreath has his Steward doing things.

Galmar's brother may not be a Stormcloak, but the Stormcloaks certainly aren't doing pl*** about his activities. I judge a ruler by how their kingdom is doing and at the moment... Ulfric has the most depressing, oppressive and racially discriminating Hold in the Nine Holds. That has to say something about his ruling ability.

Still doesn't make him a Stormcloak despite being the blood brother of the second commander of the Stormcloaks. He's just a drunken lout who wants to know why the Dunmers from his city doesn't help out for the cause.

As far as Ulfric being the most crap rulers in Tamriel... I object to this. Ulfric may not win the best Jarl award, at least he isn't corrupted by wealth. He doesn't let the most wealthy individual control him like you see in Markarth and in Riften, and he isn't lazy by making his Steward practically run his hold like you see in Solitude.

Your judgement is corrupted by your own bias opinions. You are an Imperial supporter and an Empire lover. You think inside the box, and refuse to explore the beauty of what is given to you from the outside. You are blind by what you see. If you think for a moment that the situation in Windhelm out beats the current situation in Markarth... Then by Talos I need a drink so I can understand your logic. How can you sit there telling me that Windhelm/Eastmarch is the "most depressing, oppressive and racially discriminating Hold in the Nine Holds" when Markarth is by far worst when slavery is being practice. Is the treatment of the Dunmers and the Argonians considered to be far worst than what goes on inside Markarths slave prison? Many of the Bretens are being forced to join the forsworn because of the unfair treatment that they get in the Reach, and land owners are bullied (Sometimes murdered) to sell their lands.

Ahhh hold up there bro-ham.

Rolff Stone-Fist is the brother of Ulfric's right hand man. You can't dismiss that anymore than we could say don't pay any attention to the Empire's Cousin, Victoria Vici. These people are 'part of the ruling family'. I don't care if he is or he izt wearing a Stormcloak shirt or a tattoo of a bear on his arse. He's close to the source and he isn't alone. The inn keeper is also racist. It's at the root of that city and those people put Ulfric on the throne -with voices crying out for vengeance- when he returned from Markarth. People like Rolff want Ulfric to be king for a reason. Have you sat down and had fellowship with Mr Rolff after beating his head in? Remember when he says the part about how the High King never asked anyone before letting the Dark Elves in? Like that shopkeeper dude in Falkreath, it's the same deal with him. He's not a Stormcloak soldier, he's a supporter and a sympathizer. That's what Rolff is because the Stormcloak agenda justifies his feelings. I suppose the fact that he's with a former Stormcloak soldier while berating that Dark Elf is no coincidence either.

He don't have to get on his knees for Ulfric to be in his corner... just one of his sumpathizers. I would think a true Stormcloak would be ok with something like this because many of the good folks at club Stormcloak have separate feelings, but what they all has in common is that all things Empire including the Gov has to be wiped clean and their people put in charge because of the 'mistakes' of the past.

***

I'm not going to hate on Ulfric. I've done enough of that in my day. Ok, Ulfric's not the worst.

***

Dude, you are the last person on here to be talking to people about judgement. I've read some of your posts man. Just like Elisif being forced to marry someone is 'thinking outside the box'. You know, you Stormcloaks are like, "Killing the Empire and anyone is not with us is against us" and it's like this is the only way. No man, it's not the only way.

If anything... look. Stormcloaks are the ones not thinking outside the box. Except for those few of you who are like, "Well we'll rebuild Skyrim and follow our hearts" Ok, yeah those guys are thinking outside the box. However ~ Most of the time, this is not the case. Because even for those guys there, Ulfric is going to do whatever Ulfric wants. You understand? So really, the out of the box thinking will not be allowed by the Stormcloaks. For example...

When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen.

Supporting the EMPIRE is not necessarily thinking outside the box, but WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Understand now? Ulfric's cause is charismatic, kind of like a Religious following in a way. Which I don't care if that's your thing... but when your heart is full of one man's words and his vision you're not going to want to think outside the box. You can't, it's against the rules.

The Empire on the other hand, what do they think about... #1 Actually spending their own damn money to fix Skyrim's problems... #2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric... #3 Trying to think their way out of their problems rather than throw blood at their problems and I could on. I could go on and on and on about this because I'm tired of being judged as an Imperial when I KNOW I've damn well done more than enough to try and meet the Stormcloaks half way and no I am not just talking about on this forum.

Racism>slavery. Got it, Imperials think Racism is bad while they do not shut down the mine in Markarth if they win the Civil War.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Still doesn't make him a Stormcloak despite being the blood brother of the second commander of the Stormcloaks. He's just a drunken lout who wants to know why the Dunmers from his city doesn't help out for the cause.

As far as Ulfric being the most crap rulers in Tamriel... I object to this. Ulfric may not win the best Jarl award, at least he isn't corrupted by wealth. He doesn't let the most wealthy individual control him like you see in Markarth and in Riften, and he isn't lazy by making his Steward practically run his hold like you see in Solitude.

Your judgement is corrupted by your own bias opinions. You are an Imperial supporter and an Empire lover. You think inside the box, and refuse to explore the beauty of what is given to you from the outside. You are blind by what you see. If you think for a moment that the situation in Windhelm out beats the current situation in Markarth... Then by Talos I need a drink so I can understand your logic. How can you sit there telling me that Windhelm/Eastmarch is the "most depressing, oppressive and racially discriminating Hold in the Nine Holds" when Markarth is by far worst when slavery is being practice. Is the treatment of the Dunmers and the Argonians considered to be far worst than what goes on inside Markarths slave prison? Many of the Bretens are being forced to join the forsworn because of the unfair treatment that they get in the Reach, and land owners are bullied (Sometimes murdered) to sell their lands.

Ahhh hold up there bro-ham.

Rolff Stone-Fist is the brother of Ulfric's right hand man. You can't dismiss that anymore than we could say don't pay any attention to the Empire's Cousin, Victoria Vici. These people are 'part of the ruling family'. I don't care if he is or he izt wearing a Stormcloak shirt or a tattoo of a bear on his arse. He's close to the source and he isn't alone. The inn keeper is also racist. It's at the root of that city and those people put Ulfric on the throne -with voices crying out for vengeance- when he returned from Markarth. People like Rolff want Ulfric to be king for a reason. Have you sat down and had fellowship with Mr Rolff after beating his head in? Remember when he says the part about how the High King never asked anyone before letting the Dark Elves in? Like that shopkeeper dude in Falkreath, it's the same deal with him. He's not a Stormcloak soldier, he's a supporter and a sympathizer. That's what Rolff is because the Stormcloak agenda justifies his feelings. I suppose the fact that he's with a former Stormcloak soldier while berating that Dark Elf is no coincidence either.

He don't have to get on his knees for Ulfric to be in his corner... just one of his sumpathizers. I would think a true Stormcloak would be ok with something like this because many of the good folks at club Stormcloak have separate feelings, but what they all has in common is that all things Empire including the Gov has to be wiped clean and their people put in charge because of the 'mistakes' of the past.

***

I'm not going to hate on Ulfric. I've done enough of that in my day. Ok, Ulfric's not the worst.

***

Dude, you are the last person on here to be talking to people about judgement. I've read some of your posts man. Just like Elisif being forced to marry someone is 'thinking outside the box'. You know, you Stormcloaks are like, "Killing the Empire and anyone is not with us is against us" and it's like this is the only way. No man, it's not the only way.

If anything... look. Stormcloaks are the ones not thinking outside the box. Except for those few of you who are like, "Well we'll rebuild Skyrim and follow our hearts" Ok, yeah those guys are thinking outside the box. However ~ Most of the time, this is not the case. Because even for those guys there, Ulfric is going to do whatever Ulfric wants. You understand? So really, the out of the box thinking will not be allowed by the Stormcloaks. For example...

When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen.

Supporting the EMPIRE is not necessarily thinking outside the box, but WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Understand now? Ulfric's cause is charismatic, kind of like a Religious following in a way. Which I don't care if that's your thing... but when your heart is full of one man's words and his vision you're not going to want to think outside the box. You can't, it's against the rules.

The Empire on the other hand, what do they think about... #1 Actually spending their own damn money to fix Skyrim's problems... #2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric... #3 Trying to think their way out of their problems rather than throw blood at their problems and I could on. I could go on and on and on about this because I'm tired of being judged as an Imperial when I KNOW I've damn well done more than enough to try and meet the Stormcloaks half way and no I am not just talking about on this forum.

Racism>slavery. Got it, Imperials think Racism is bad while they do not shut down the mine in Markarth if they win the Civil War.

Whatever. If you're mad about Markarth you need to talk Ulfric about that. I don't think the Jarl told him to start beating and killing people who didn't lift up a sword in his name. But you don't believe that crap right? Yet, the Imperials are supposed to believe that Ulfric's not racist and shares no responsibility for the disturbing situation at Markarth.

Oh yeah and seeing how it's YOUR STORMCLOAK JARL and his family, The Silverbloods who love to enslave people so much, then no your math is wrong.

For Stormcloaks and their 'allies' it seems that Slavery == Racism

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Ahhh hold up there bro-ham.

Rolff Stone-Fist is the brother of Ulfric's right hand man. You can't dismiss that anymore than we could say don't pay any attention to the Empire's Cousin, Victoria Vici. These people are 'part of the ruling family'. I don't care if he is or he izt wearing a Stormcloak shirt or a tattoo of a bear on his arse. He's close to the source and he isn't alone. The inn keeper is also racist. It's at the root of that city and those people put Ulfric on the throne -with voices crying out for vengeance- when he returned from Markarth. People like Rolff want Ulfric to be king for a reason. Have you sat down and had fellowship with Mr Rolff after beating his head in? Remember when he says the part about how the High King never asked anyone before letting the Dark Elves in? Like that shopkeeper dude in Falkreath, it's the same deal with him. He's not a Stormcloak soldier, he's a supporter and a sympathizer. That's what Rolff is because the Stormcloak agenda justifies his feelings. I suppose the fact that he's with a former Stormcloak soldier while berating that Dark Elf is no coincidence either.

He don't have to get on his knees for Ulfric to be in his corner... just one of his sumpathizers. I would think a true Stormcloak would be ok with something like this because many of the good folks at club Stormcloak have separate feelings, but what they all has in common is that all things Empire including the Gov has to be wiped clean and their people put in charge because of the 'mistakes' of the past.

***

I'm not going to hate on Ulfric. I've done enough of that in my day. Ok, Ulfric's not the worst.

***

Dude, you are the last person on here to be talking to people about judgement. I've read some of your posts man. Just like Elisif being forced to marry someone is 'thinking outside the box'. You know, you Stormcloaks are like, "Killing the Empire and anyone is not with us is against us" and it's like this is the only way. No man, it's not the only way.

If anything... look. Stormcloaks are the ones not thinking outside the box. Except for those few of you who are like, "Well we'll rebuild Skyrim and follow our hearts" Ok, yeah those guys are thinking outside the box. However ~ Most of the time, this is not the case. Because even for those guys there, Ulfric is going to do whatever Ulfric wants. You understand? So really, the out of the box thinking will not be allowed by the Stormcloaks. For example...

When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen.

Supporting the EMPIRE is not necessarily thinking outside the box, but WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Understand now? Ulfric's cause is charismatic, kind of like a Religious following in a way. Which I don't care if that's your thing... but when your heart is full of one man's words and his vision you're not going to want to think outside the box. You can't, it's against the rules.

The Empire on the other hand, what do they think about... #1 Actually spending their own damn money to fix Skyrim's problems... #2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric... #3 Trying to think their way out of their problems rather than throw blood at their problems and I could on. I could go on and on and on about this because I'm tired of being judged as an Imperial when I KNOW I've damn well done more than enough to try and meet the Stormcloaks half way and no I am not just talking about on this forum.

Racism>slavery. Got it, Imperials think Racism is bad while they do not shut down the mine in Markarth if they win the Civil War.

Whatever. If you're mad about Markarth you need to talk Ulfric about that. I don't think the Jarl told him to start beating and killing people who didn't lift up a sword in his name. But you don't believe that crap right? Yet, the Imperials are supposed to believe that Ulfric's not racist and shares no responsibility for the disturbing situation at Markarth.

I am not mad at the Markarth Incident. I am talking about the mines. It has been how many years since the mines had those "slaves" working there, and only NOW the Empire is coming in to stop it? I fail to believe it.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Racism>slavery. Got it, Imperials think Racism is bad while they do not shut down the mine in Markarth if they win the Civil War.

Whatever. If you're mad about Markarth you need to talk Ulfric about that. I don't think the Jarl told him to start beating and killing people who didn't lift up a sword in his name. But you don't believe that crap right? Yet, the Imperials are supposed to believe that Ulfric's not racist and shares no responsibility for the disturbing situation at Markarth.

I am not mad at the Markarth Incident. I am talking about the mines. It has been how many years since the mines had those "slaves" working there, and only NOW the Empire is coming in to stop it? I fail to believe it.

That I can understand. You know, the Empire allowed slavery in Morrowind but slavery is not they policy. Except I don't remember being forced to pick cotton or mine silver the last time I went to prison in an Imperial city. It's that family man ~ They run Markarth for the most part. The Empire wants to stop it, that's why Gen Tullius sends you on a mission to that mine. Maybe the Imperials see an opportunity now to clean up that mess, what with the war and all.

Who knows? But what I do know is that it's horrible and the Empire is trying to put a stop to it. And anyone in the Reach who supports Ulfric is a sad creature in my eyes... because they're ok with what he done to those plp and this is alright with them. Hah whatever the solution is for the Reach, Ulfric and anyone else like him aren't apart of it. Why do u think the Forsworn have gotten so many new members and yeah they're crazy but now it's RAGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Whatever. If you're mad about Markarth you need to talk Ulfric about that. I don't think the Jarl told him to start beating and killing people who didn't lift up a sword in his name. But you don't believe that crap right? Yet, the Imperials are supposed to believe that Ulfric's not racist and shares no responsibility for the disturbing situation at Markarth.

I am not mad at the Markarth Incident. I am talking about the mines. It has been how many years since the mines had those "slaves" working there, and only NOW the Empire is coming in to stop it? I fail to believe it.

That I can understand. You know, the Empire allowed slavery in Morrowind but slavery is not they policy. Except I don't remember being forced to pick cotton or mine silver the last time I went to prison in an Imperial city. It's that family man. The Empire wants to stop it, that's why Gen Tullius sends you on a mission to that mine. Maybe the Imperials see an opportunity now to clean up that mess, what with the war and all.

Who knows? But what I do know is that it's horrible and the Empire is trying to put a stop to it.

I mean, The Mining and "slavery" happened for quite a few years now. it is only now, when the Empire could lose everything, that they harp about slavery. if it was really about that, don't you think your precious Empire would have done something much earlier about it?

 

[LegateFasendil]

I am not mad at the Markarth Incident. I am talking about the mines. It has been how many years since the mines had those "slaves" working there, and only NOW the Empire is coming in to stop it? I fail to believe it.

That I can understand. You know, the Empire allowed slavery in Morrowind but slavery is not they policy. Except I don't remember being forced to pick cotton or mine silver the last time I went to prison in an Imperial city. It's that family man. The Empire wants to stop it, that's why Gen Tullius sends you on a mission to that mine. Maybe the Imperials see an opportunity now to clean up that mess, what with the war and all.

Who knows? But what I do know is that it's horrible and the Empire is trying to put a stop to it.

I mean, The Mining and "slavery" happened for quite a few years now. it is only now, when the Empire could lose everything, that they harp about slavery. if it was really about that, don't you think your precious Empire would have done something much earlier about it?

I'm not going to sit and here and kiss Mede's arse. fl*ff that dude. He lost his nerve and quit thinking, which is how 'we' all arrived in this mess. The Empire can't be blamed for what the local Govs are doing... after all... isn't it their land too? Don't forget how the Provinces have their own say in all this... even being apart of the Empire.

Still, THE LAW IS SACRED ~ It don't matter who the current Emperor is.

 

[Tyer032392]

Ahhh hold up there bro-ham.

Rolff Stone-Fist is the brother of Ulfric's right hand man. You can't dismiss that anymore than we could say don't pay any attention to the Empire's Cousin, Victoria Vici. These people are 'part of the ruling family'. I don't care if he is or he izt wearing a Stormcloak shirt or a tattoo of a bear on his arse. He's close to the source and he isn't alone. The inn keeper is also racist. It's at the root of that city and those people put Ulfric on the throne -with voices crying out for vengeance- when he returned from Markarth. People like Rolff want Ulfric to be king for a reason. Have you sat down and had fellowship with Mr Rolff after beating his head in? Remember when he says the part about how the High King never asked anyone before letting the Dark Elves in? Like that shopkeeper dude in Falkreath, it's the same deal with him. He's not a Stormcloak soldier, he's a supporter and a sympathizer. That's what Rolff is because the Stormcloak agenda justifies his feelings. I suppose the fact that he's with a former Stormcloak soldier while berating that Dark Elf is no coincidence either.

He don't have to get on his knees for Ulfric to be in his corner... just one of his sumpathizers. I would think a true Stormcloak would be ok with something like this because many of the good folks at club Stormcloak have separate feelings, but what they all has in common is that all things Empire including the Gov has to be wiped clean and their people put in charge because of the 'mistakes' of the past.

***

I'm not going to hate on Ulfric. I've done enough of that in my day. Ok, Ulfric's not the worst.

***

Dude, you are the last person on here to be talking to people about judgement. I've read some of your posts man. Just like Elisif being forced to marry someone is 'thinking outside the box'. You know, you Stormcloaks are like, "Killing the Empire and anyone is not with us is against us" and it's like this is the only way. No man, it's not the only way.

If anything... look. Stormcloaks are the ones not thinking outside the box. Except for those few of you who are like, "Well we'll rebuild Skyrim and follow our hearts" Ok, yeah those guys are thinking outside the box. However ~ Most of the time, this is not the case. Because even for those guys there, Ulfric is going to do whatever Ulfric wants. You understand? So really, the out of the box thinking will not be allowed by the Stormcloaks. For example...

When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen.

Supporting the EMPIRE is not necessarily thinking outside the box, but WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Understand now? Ulfric's cause is charismatic, kind of like a Religious following in a way. Which I don't care if that's your thing... but when your heart is full of one man's words and his vision you're not going to want to think outside the box. You can't, it's against the rules.

The Empire on the other hand, what do they think about... #1 Actually spending their own damn money to fix Skyrim's problems... #2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric... #3 Trying to think their way out of their problems rather than throw blood at their problems and I could on. I could go on and on and on about this because I'm tired of being judged as an Imperial when I KNOW I've damn well done more than enough to try and meet the Stormcloaks half way and no I am not just talking about on this forum.

And lastly, ULFIC who decided *by himself* there was no other way for Nords to resolve their differences with the Empir and he is also the one who started killing people. FURTHERMORE, Ulfric also FORCED his way on the Nords by not allowing the Moot to meet. Aside from this action being treason, any peaceful solution that could have been worked out along with your 'outside box thinking' all was flushed down the toilet by your man, Ulfric Stormcloak.

Tell me more about how the Imperials don't think outside the box.

Just wanted to make a few corrections.

"When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen."

Ralof mentions when you see him in Riverwood that he thinks that the Stormcloaks and Imperials should call a truce and collaborate on the issue with the dragons. His dialog is near the exact same as Hadvar's, so I believe that Bethesda might of used that as a hint towards the quest "Season Unending".

"#2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric". I am not entirely sure how many Imperials look this way, but both General Tullius and Jarl Balgruuf state that in order for the war to end, Ulfric will have to die. Legate Rikke also mentions something similar to this by saying that "I hope that Ulfric will come to his senses, but I fear he is in to deep to back down now".

Other than those two thing, you seem to be very spot on.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Ahhh hold up there bro-ham.

Rolff Stone-Fist is the brother of Ulfric's right hand man. You can't dismiss that anymore than we could say don't pay any attention to the Empire's Cousin, Victoria Vici. These people are 'part of the ruling family'. I don't care if he is or he izt wearing a Stormcloak shirt or a tattoo of a bear on his arse. He's close to the source and he isn't alone. The inn keeper is also racist. It's at the root of that city and those people put Ulfric on the throne -with voices crying out for vengeance- when he returned from Markarth. People like Rolff want Ulfric to be king for a reason. Have you sat down and had fellowship with Mr Rolff after beating his head in? Remember when he says the part about how the High King never asked anyone before letting the Dark Elves in? Like that shopkeeper dude in Falkreath, it's the same deal with him. He's not a Stormcloak soldier, he's a supporter and a sympathizer. That's what Rolff is because the Stormcloak agenda justifies his feelings. I suppose the fact that he's with a former Stormcloak soldier while berating that Dark Elf is no coincidence either.

He don't have to get on his knees for Ulfric to be in his corner... just one of his sumpathizers. I would think a true Stormcloak would be ok with something like this because many of the good folks at club Stormcloak have separate feelings, but what they all has in common is that all things Empire including the Gov has to be wiped clean and their people put in charge because of the 'mistakes' of the past.

***

I'm not going to hate on Ulfric. I've done enough of that in my day. Ok, Ulfric's not the worst.

***

Dude, you are the last person on here to be talking to people about judgement. I've read some of your posts man. Just like Elisif being forced to marry someone is 'thinking outside the box'. You know, you Stormcloaks are like, "Killing the Empire and anyone is not with us is against us" and it's like this is the only way. No man, it's not the only way.

If anything... look. Stormcloaks are the ones not thinking outside the box. Except for those few of you who are like, "Well we'll rebuild Skyrim and follow our hearts" Ok, yeah those guys are thinking outside the box. However ~ Most of the time, this is not the case. Because even for those guys there, Ulfric is going to do whatever Ulfric wants. You understand? So really, the out of the box thinking will not be allowed by the Stormcloaks. For example...

When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen.

Supporting the EMPIRE is not necessarily thinking outside the box, but WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Understand now? Ulfric's cause is charismatic, kind of like a Religious following in a way. Which I don't care if that's your thing... but when your heart is full of one man's words and his vision you're not going to want to think outside the box. You can't, it's against the rules.

The Empire on the other hand, what do they think about... #1 Actually spending their own damn money to fix Skyrim's problems... #2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric... #3 Trying to think their way out of their problems rather than throw blood at their problems and I could on. I could go on and on and on about this because I'm tired of being judged as an Imperial when I KNOW I've damn well done more than enough to try and meet the Stormcloaks half way and no I am not just talking about on this forum.

And lastly, ULFIC who decided *by himself* there was no other way for Nords to resolve their differences with the Empir and he is also the one who started killing people. FURTHERMORE, Ulfric also FORCED his way on the Nords by not allowing the Moot to meet. Aside from this action being treason, any peaceful solution that could have been worked out along with your 'outside box thinking' all was flushed down the toilet by your man, Ulfric Stormcloak.

Tell me more about how the Imperials don't think outside the box.

Just wanted to make a few corrections.

"When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen."

Ralof mentions when you see him in Riverwood that he thinks that the Stormcloaks and Imperials should call a truce and collaborate on the issue with the dragons. His dialog is near the exact same as Hadvar's, so I believe that Bethesda might of used that as a hint towards the quest "Season Unending".

"#2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric". I am not entirely sure how many Imperials look this way, but both General Tullius and Jarl Balgruuf state that in order for the war to end, Ulfric will have to die. Legate Rikke also mentions something similar to this by saying that "I hope that Ulfric will come to his senses, but I fear he is in to deep to back down now".

Other than those two thing, you seem to be very spot on.

Yep. Hey, I like Ralof. Everybody likes Ralof. Ralof is going to be my guest of honor at "The Ulfric Stormcloak skull-keg party." Which is where we all sit around drinking Mead and Cyrodilic Brandy and then take turns drinking beer out of Ulfric's empty skull.

Yes she does mention, she's not giving up hope, it doesn't matter what he does, she wants the war to while it can still be ended amicably. See? That's what I'm saying, exactly. You wouldn't EVER hear Galmar saying anything like that. I think he would rather cut his own tongue out with an axe first.

 

[Tyer032392]

Yep. Hey, I like Ralof. Everybody likes Ralof. Ralof is going to be my guest of honor at "The Ulfric Stormcloak skill-keg party."

I am not defending the Stormcloaks in any way, as you appear to be implying, but was stating the fallacies in your logic when stating some things that you believed did not happen, when in fact did happen. I.E: Ralof's near same dialog tree as that of Hadvar's, and General Tullius's and Jarl Balgruuf's response to the Dragonborn questioning them on how to end the Civil War.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

That I can understand. You know, the Empire allowed slavery in Morrowind but slavery is not they policy. Except I don't remember being forced to pick cotton or mine silver the last time I went to prison in an Imperial city. It's that family man. The Empire wants to stop it, that's why Gen Tullius sends you on a mission to that mine. Maybe the Imperials see an opportunity now to clean up that mess, what with the war and all.

Who knows? But what I do know is that it's horrible and the Empire is trying to put a stop to it.

I mean, The Mining and "slavery" happened for quite a few years now. it is only now, when the Empire could lose everything, that they harp about slavery. if it was really about that, don't you think your precious Empire would have done something much earlier about it?

I'm not going to sit and here and kiss Mede's arse. fl*ff that dude. He lost his nerve and quit thinking, which is how 'we' all arrived in this mess. The Empire can't be blamed for what the local Govs are doing... after all... isn't it their land too? Don't forget how the Provinces have their own say in all this... even being apart of the Empire.

Still, THE LAW IS SACRED ~ It don't matter who the current Emperor is.

No, you fail to understand. Slavery>a few racial slurs and poor homes because the Dunmer refuse to better their own lives and seek handouts playing the "poor refugees being discriminated against" when they did the same stinking thing back in the days of Morrowind. The slavery and mine should have been shut down if the slavery thing was really against the law of the Empire.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Yep. Hey, I like Ralof. Everybody likes Ralof. Ralof is going to be my guest of honor at "The Ulfric Stormcloak skill-keg party."

I am not defending the Stormcloaks in any way, as you appear to be implying, but was stating the fallacies in your logic when stating some things that you believed did not happen, when in fact did happen. I.E: Ralof's near same dialog tree as that of Hadvar's, and General Tullius's and Jarl Balgruuf's response to the Dragonborn questioning them on how to end the Civil War.

It doesn't matter to me, defend them if you will.

Yeah but it's not the same and it's not the way that Stormcloaks look at the situation. It sounds to me like he's more worried about the Dragons, oh yeah, leave the Imperials around long enough to actually take care of the problem and then the Stormcloaks will take over.

So no, there's no fallacy in my logic. Not about his point at least. I was specifically talking about a permanent solution to the Civil War, like one of the outcomes in New Vegas.

Gen Tullius hates Ulric. True. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't deal with him, like he did at Season Unending. Ulfric threatened to leave the table, the dude was so hot headed he just wouldn't listen. It even sounded like Gen Tullius might be willing to find a way to end the war then and there.

 

[Tyer032392]

No, you fail to understand. Slavery>a few racial slurs and poor homes because the Dunmer refuse to better their own lives and seek handouts playing the "poor refugees being discriminated against" when they did the same stinking thing back in the days of Morrowind. The slavery and mine should have been shut down if the slavery thing was really against the law of the Empire.

Kinda easy to bypass the law if you line certain peoples pockets just right. The Black Briars and Silver-Bloods represent this to the best possible way. The Black Briars lining the pockets of several Imperial magistrates to get influence in the Empire, just as the Silver-Bloods line the pockets of the Stormcloaks to keep their mine open, and the slavery intact as I highly doubt Ulfric would care as they are the Reachmen that are enslaved.

Edit: had to redo this as the quote system on my end is messed up.

 

[LegateFasendil]

I mean, The Mining and "slavery" happened for quite a few years now. it is only now, when the Empire could lose everything, that they harp about slavery. if it was really about that, don't you think your precious Empire would have done something much earlier about it?

I'm not going to sit and here and kiss Mede's arse. fl*ff that dude. He lost his nerve and quit thinking, which is how 'we' all arrived in this mess. The Empire can't be blamed for what the local Govs are doing... after all... isn't it their land too? Don't forget how the Provinces have their own say in all this... even being apart of the Empire.

Still, THE LAW IS SACRED ~ It don't matter who the current Emperor is.

No, you fail to understand. Slavery>a few racial slurs and poor homes because the Dunmer refuse to better their own lives and seek handouts playing the "poor refugees being discriminated against" when they did the same stinking thing back in the days of Morrowind. The slavery and mine should have been shut down if the slavery thing was really against the law of the Empire.

Oh yes. I am a failure granted. But I understood enough to know how racist and corrupt that city was the moment I opened the gates. And was reassured of this feeling after spending an hour there.

But see you claim to understand but fail to acknowledge how well Riften has done, on the border with Morrowind. Why doesn't Riften have these problems? Why did so much suffering in the Grey Quarter start when Ulfric took over?

 

[Tyer032392]

It doesn't matter to me, defend them if you will.

Yeah but it's not the same and it's not the way that Stormcloaks look at the situation. It sounds to me like he's more worried about the Dragons, oh yeah, leave the Imperials around long enough to actually take care of the problem and then the Stormcloaks will take over.

So no, there's no fallacy in my logic. Not about his point at least. I was specifically talking about a permanent solution to the Civil War, like one of the outcomes in New Vegas.

Gen Tullius hates Ulric. True. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't deal with him, like he did at Season Unending. Ulfric threatened to leave the table, the dude was so hot headed he just wouldn't listen. It even sounded like Gen Tullius might be willing to find a way to end the war then and there.

I am not trying to defend them, just pointing out that you claimed something about the Stormcloaks, granted I now think you are referring to the leadership and not the soldiers about the possibility of a peace treaty.

Like you, I don't have a lot of respect for Ulfric, and whatever respect I did have for him disappeared after Season Unending after as you said, he was willing to walk out just because the Thalmor was there, and leave Skyrim to its fate with Alduin. He knew full well that Alduin had returned, but refused to even be cooperative because of his stupidity and arrogance.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I'm not going to sit and here and kiss Mede's arse. fl*ff that dude. He lost his nerve and quit thinking, which is how 'we' all arrived in this mess. The Empire can't be blamed for what the local Govs are doing... after all... isn't it their land too? Don't forget how the Provinces have their own say in all this... even being apart of the Empire.

Still, THE LAW IS SACRED ~ It don't matter who the current Emperor is.

No, you fail to understand. Slavery>a few racial slurs and poor homes because the Dunmer refuse to better their own lives and seek handouts playing the "poor refugees being discriminated against" when they did the same stinking thing back in the days of Morrowind. The slavery and mine should have been shut down if the slavery thing was really against the law of the Empire.

Oh yes. I am a failure granted. But I understood enough to know how racist and corrupt that city was the moment I opened the gates. And was reassured of this feeling after spending an hour there.

But see you claim to understand but fail to acknowledge how well Riften has done, on the border with Morrowind. Why doesn't Riften have these problems? Why did so much suffering in the Grey Quarter start when Ulfric took over?

I wonder? Could it be because the Empire supporter Maven has all the actual power there and the Jarl is merely a moronic figurehead?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Still doesn't make him a Stormcloak despite being the blood brother of the second commander of the Stormcloaks. He's just a drunken lout who wants to know why the Dunmers from his city doesn't help out for the cause.

As far as Ulfric being the most crap rulers in Tamriel... I object to this. Ulfric may not win the best Jarl award, at least he isn't corrupted by wealth. He doesn't let the most wealthy individual control him like you see in Markarth and in Riften, and he isn't lazy by making his Steward practically run his hold like you see in Solitude.

Your judgement is corrupted by your own bias opinions. You are an Imperial supporter and an Empire lover. You think inside the box, and refuse to explore the beauty of what is given to you from the outside. You are blind by what you see. If you think for a moment that the situation in Windhelm out beats the current situation in Markarth... Then by Talos I need a drink so I can understand your logic. How can you sit there telling me that Windhelm/Eastmarch is the "most depressing, oppressive and racially discriminating Hold in the Nine Holds" when Markarth is by far worst when slavery is being practice. Is the treatment of the Dunmers and the Argonians considered to be far worst than what goes on inside Markarths slave prison? Many of the Bretens are being forced to join the forsworn because of the unfair treatment that they get in the Reach, and land owners are bullied (Sometimes murdered) to sell their lands.

That drunken lout is still acting on what he believes is the Stormcloak's best interests, he is one of their biggest supporters. The point is the Stormcloaks themselves do nothing about him, his behavior is either ignored or accepted.

The job of a Court Steward is to run the Hold. Are we to fault Elisif for her court actually doing their duty? But we forgive Ulfric because he isn't lazy and has his steward do nothing... Is that what going for? A good Jarl does nothing about his Hold, not even has his steward do things.

Markarth's problems are coming from Stormcloak supporters... surprise. The Silver-Bloods are in power from that mine, it supplies them with wealth. Let us not forget you argued against the Empire when they tried to take the deed to the mine. So we have now made an understanding that two depressing and oppressive cities have one thing in common... Stormcloaks at the heart of the issue.

 

[UltraXPowerGuy]

Both sides have their problems, but what do you expect from politics?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Racism>slavery. Got it, Imperials think Racism is bad while they do not shut down the mine in Markarth if they win the Civil War.

They already tried to take the deed to the mine. You see... the Silver-Bloods own the mine legally and it acts as a prison. The Imperials are just going to kick down the doors and allow the prisoners to go free? There are some of the most dangerous people in there.

Got it, Stormcloaks don't think logically for one minute.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Racism>slavery. Got it, Imperials think Racism is bad while they do not shut down the mine in Markarth if they win the Civil War.

They already tried to take the deed to the mine. You see... the Silver-Bloods own the mine legally and it acts as a prison. The Imperials are just going to kick down the doors and allow the prisoners to go free? There are some of the most dangerous people in there.

Got it, Stormcloaks don't think logically for one minute.

You may have missed the entire conversation I apparently had with myself on this thread about that. Why did they not do it earlier? Why did they wait to deal with it when they risked losing everything in the Civil War? Seems like the Empire only cares about controlling that mine.

There is no evidence I know of to tell me that they were going for that mine for the past however long it has been since the Markarth Incident. That tells me that they just now decided to take that mine, during a Civil War, where the owners are Stormcloak supporters. Sounds like it means more to get the silver in the mine away from the rebels, than slavery.

When Racism is the question, Imperials get up in arms about it, but when it becomes imprisonment/slavery, it takes you a decade or more to see that imprisonment is slavery and go after it? Odd priorities there.