Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[LegateFasendil]

Another thing on a sep matter, you know... you can defend the Stormcloak cause all you want and even if *somehow* it came out as being justified in the wash, the cause isn't the problem.

Because see, Ulfric is like a Trojan Horse. Willing or unwilling the man is being used the Thalmor who conditioned him thru his 'handler' Elenwen... He was at Markarth for a reason and it wasn't no mercy mission either.

The Empire is one way or another getting rid of it's problem child, Titus Mede II, who signed the WGC. Although it's kind of sad in a way because he actually is a pretty cool guy. I honestly haven't said that enough. But Titus Mede is throwing himself on the sword to save the Empire, same as Uriel VII. He could have fought back or done whatever to escape but he didn't. And don't tell me Ulfric would do the same because his cause is centered around him... it's all about him and his personal pain.

The way I see it, you can just take the hit and support the Empire with the promise of a new Emperor and an Elder Council that is demanding change or you can 'fight the good fight' for something that may be Ulfric's cause, but it's the Thalmor's war.

I suspect the Thalmor may be behind this so called "Stormcloak rebellion" and the Dossier is the proof. The Empire derails the Thalmor's long term goals in Skyrim, Ulfric's rebellion victory or not, will not hinder the Thalmor.

All the Stormcloak rebellion truly is, is a Trojan horse and there is no simple, fast, or quick and easy way to freedom again. Faith and perseverance is the only means by which to defeat an enemy like the Thalmor who think in long terms.

Freedom is not free and Ulfric is making all these promises for a cause that really... ain't even his because the Thalmor are funding it and at one time or another the Thalmor planned it. He's just their point man, totally expendable. Ulfric's only purpose is to cause enough problems to kill the Empire.

The dossier is just the Thalmor being arrogant and thinking they own Ulfric. The only way to stop the Thalmor would be to stop the war. Therefore tipping the balance that each side has to end it, a unified Skyrim or an independent Skyrim is not good for the Thalmor either way.

Well according to the Dossier an Imperial victory hurts their long term goals in Skyrim and yes, a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided as well... but the Empire winning prevents whatever 'other' long term objectives the Thalmor have for Skyrim. And they know they can get to Ulfric so there you go.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

as apposed to "What is it Kinsmen?" or "Staying safe I hope"

The kinsman-dialogue comes from any Nord guard, whether he's Imperial or Stormcloak.
And I already know the dialogue from many major and minor NPCs very well, no need to assure me anything.

That's my point they're all biased towards Nords as opposed to other races regardless of political affiliation

 

[Vatonage]

Well according to the Dossier an Imperial victory hurts their long term goals in Skyrim and yes, a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided as well... but the Empire winning prevents whatever 'other' plans the Thalmor have for Skyrim. And they know they can get to Ulfric so there you go.

Ulfric is a stern hater of elvenkind, so how in the name of Talos would they get to him, or even set foot near Windhelm, if he ruled as High King? They're activities in Skyrim would be hampered greatly, Ulfric is not bound by some treaty and trying to stay neutral to the Thalmor, unlike the Empire. He'd hunt the Thalmor at every moment if they were still in Skyrim when he takes the High Throne.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Another thing on a sep matter, you know... you can defend the Stormcloak cause all you want and even if *somehow* it came out as being justified in the wash, the cause isn't the problem.

Because see, Ulfric is like a Trojan Horse. Willing or unwilling the man is being used the Thalmor who conditioned him thru his 'handler' Elenwen... He was at Markarth for a reason and it wasn't no mercy mission either.

The Empire is one way or another getting rid of it's problem child, Titus Mede II, who signed the WGC. Although it's kind of sad in a way because he actually is a pretty cool guy. I honestly haven't said that enough. But Titus Mede is throwing himself on the sword to save the Empire, same as Uriel VII. He could have fought back or done whatever to escape but he didn't. And don't tell me Ulfric would do the same because his cause is centered around him... it's all about him and his personal pain.

The way I see it, you can just take the hit and support the Empire with the promise of a new Emperor and an Elder Council that is demanding change or you can 'fight the good fight' for something that may be Ulfric's cause, but it's the Thalmor's war.

I suspect the Thalmor may be behind this so called "Stormcloak rebellion" and the Dossier is the proof. The Empire derails the Thalmor's long term goals in Skyrim, Ulfric's rebellion victory or not, will not hinder the Thalmor.

All the Stormcloak rebellion truly is, is a Trojan horse and there is no simple, fast, or quick and easy way to freedom again. Faith and perseverance is the only means by which to defeat an enemy like the Thalmor who think in long terms.

Freedom is not free and Ulfric is making all these promises for a cause that really... ain't even his because the Thalmor are funding it and at one time or another the Thalmor planned it. He's just their point man, totally expendable. Ulfric's only purpose is to cause enough problems to kill the Empire.

The dossier is just the Thalmor being arrogant and thinking they own Ulfric. The only way to stop the Thalmor would be to stop the war. Therefore tipping the balance that each side has to end it, a unified Skyrim or an independent Skyrim is not good for the Thalmor either way.

Well according to the Dossier an Imperial victory hurts their long term goals in Skyrim and yes, a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided as well... but the Empire winning prevents whatever 'other' long term objectives the Thalmor have for Skyrim. And they know they can get to Ulfric so there you go.

No, They know they need Ulfric. They can't "get" to him. Whatever that even means.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Well according to the Dossier an Imperial victory hurts their long term goals in Skyrim and yes, a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided as well... but the Empire winning prevents whatever 'other' plans the Thalmor have for Skyrim. And they know they can get to Ulfric so there you go.

Ulfric is a stern hater of elvenkind, so how in the name of Talos would they get to him, or even set foot near Windhelm, if he ruled as High King? They're activities in Skyrim would be hampered greatly, Ulfric is not bound by some treaty and trying to stay neutral to the Thalmor, unlike the Empire. He'd hunt the Thalmor at every moment if they were still in Skyrim when he takes the High Throne.

I wouldn't say of Elvenkind but of The Dominion absolutely.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Another thing on a sep matter, you know... you can defend the Stormcloak cause all you want and even if *somehow* it came out as being justified in the wash, the cause isn't the problem.

Because see, Ulfric is like a Trojan Horse. Willing or unwilling the man is being used the Thalmor who conditioned him thru his 'handler' Elenwen... He was at Markarth for a reason and it wasn't no mercy mission either.

The Empire is one way or another getting rid of it's problem child, Titus Mede II, who signed the WGC. Although it's kind of sad in a way because he actually is a pretty cool guy. I honestly haven't said that enough. But Titus Mede is throwing himself on the sword to save the Empire, same as Uriel VII. He could have fought back or done whatever to escape but he didn't. And don't tell me Ulfric would do the same because his cause is centered around him... it's all about him and his personal pain.

The way I see it, you can just take the hit and support the Empire with the promise of a new Emperor and an Elder Council that is demanding change or you can 'fight the good fight' for something that may be Ulfric's cause, but it's the Thalmor's war.

I suspect the Thalmor may be behind this so called "Stormcloak rebellion" and the Dossier is the proof. The Empire derails the Thalmor's long term goals in Skyrim, Ulfric's rebellion victory or not, will not hinder the Thalmor.

All the Stormcloak rebellion truly is, is a Trojan horse and there is no simple, fast, or quick and easy way to freedom again. Faith and perseverance is the only means by which to defeat an enemy like the Thalmor who think in long terms.

Freedom is not free and Ulfric is making all these promises for a cause that really... ain't even his because the Thalmor are funding it and at one time or another the Thalmor planned it. He's just their point man, totally expendable. Ulfric's only purpose is to cause enough problems to kill the Empire.

The dossier is just the Thalmor being arrogant and thinking they own Ulfric. The only way to stop the Thalmor would be to stop the war. Therefore tipping the balance that each side has to end it, a unified Skyrim or an independent Skyrim is not good for the Thalmor either way.

Wait... what do you mean by thinking? Thinking they own him. They do own him, even if he's unwilling. You seem like a smart person, so I'm sure you're aware they broke Ulfric while in captivity with the intention of using him as an asset. It doesn't matter whether he's willing or not. Ulfric's a Thalmor pawn either way and thus, the Thalmor are one step ahead of him... and the saddest part of all is he doesn't realize what's actually happening.

 

[LegateFasendil]

The dossier is just the Thalmor being arrogant and thinking they own Ulfric. The only way to stop the Thalmor would be to stop the war. Therefore tipping the balance that each side has to end it, a unified Skyrim or an independent Skyrim is not good for the Thalmor either way.

Well according to the Dossier an Imperial victory hurts their long term goals in Skyrim and yes, a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided as well... but the Empire winning prevents whatever 'other' long term objectives the Thalmor have for Skyrim. And they know they can get to Ulfric so there you go.

No, They know they need Ulfric. They can't "get" to him. Whatever that even means.

Hmmm I can tell you're an honest person. So you wouldn't understand. Again... TROJAN HORSE folks. A lie is alot easier to swallow when it's mixed in truth.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Well according to the Dossier an Imperial victory hurts their long term goals in Skyrim and yes, a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided as well... but the Empire winning prevents whatever 'other' long term objectives the Thalmor have for Skyrim. And they know they can get to Ulfric so there you go.

No, They know they need Ulfric. They can't "get" to him. Whatever that even means.

Hmmm I can tell you're an honest person. So you wouldn't understand. Again... TROJAN HORSE folks. A lie is alot easier to swallow when it's mixed in truth.

What are you... I don't even... WHAT?!

 

[LegateFasendil]

Well according to the Dossier an Imperial victory hurts their long term goals in Skyrim and yes, a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided as well... but the Empire winning prevents whatever 'other' plans the Thalmor have for Skyrim. And they know they can get to Ulfric so there you go.

Ulfric is a stern hater of elvenkind, so how in the name of Talos would they get to him, or even set foot near Windhelm, if he ruled as High King? They're activities in Skyrim would be hampered greatly, Ulfric is not bound by some treaty and trying to stay neutral to the Thalmor, unlike the Empire. He'd hunt the Thalmor at every moment if they were still in Skyrim when he takes the High Throne.

I wouldn't say of Elvenkind but of The Dominion absolutely.

Right he just hates anyone who isn't a Nord.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Another thing on a sep matter, you know... you can defend the Stormcloak cause all you want and even if *somehow* it came out as being justified in the wash, the cause isn't the problem.

Because see, Ulfric is like a Trojan Horse. Willing or unwilling the man is being used the Thalmor who conditioned him thru his 'handler' Elenwen... He was at Markarth for a reason and it wasn't no mercy mission either.

The Empire is one way or another getting rid of it's problem child, Titus Mede II, who signed the WGC. Although it's kind of sad in a way because he actually is a pretty cool guy. I honestly haven't said that enough. But Titus Mede is throwing himself on the sword to save the Empire, same as Uriel VII. He could have fought back or done whatever to escape but he didn't. And don't tell me Ulfric would do the same because his cause is centered around him... it's all about him and his personal pain.

The way I see it, you can just take the hit and support the Empire with the promise of a new Emperor and an Elder Council that is demanding change or you can 'fight the good fight' for something that may be Ulfric's cause, but it's the Thalmor's war.

I suspect the Thalmor may be behind this so called "Stormcloak rebellion" and the Dossier is the proof. The Empire derails the Thalmor's long term goals in Skyrim, Ulfric's rebellion victory or not, will not hinder the Thalmor.

All the Stormcloak rebellion truly is, is a Trojan horse and there is no simple, fast, or quick and easy way to freedom again. Faith and perseverance is the only means by which to defeat an enemy like the Thalmor who think in long terms.

Freedom is not free and Ulfric is making all these promises for a cause that really... ain't even his because the Thalmor are funding it and at one time or another the Thalmor planned it. He's just their point man, totally expendable. Ulfric's only purpose is to cause enough problems to kill the Empire.

The dossier is just the Thalmor being arrogant and thinking they own Ulfric. The only way to stop the Thalmor would be to stop the war. Therefore tipping the balance that each side has to end it, a unified Skyrim or an independent Skyrim is not good for the Thalmor either way.

Wait... what do you mean by thinking? Thinking they own him. They do own him, even if he's unwilling. You seem like a smart person, so I'm sure you're aware they broke Ulfric while in captivity with the intention of using him as an asset. It doesn't matter whether he's willing or not. Ulfric's a Thalmor pawn either way and thus, the Thalmor are one step ahead of him... and the saddest part of all is he doesn't realize what's actually happening.

No they don't own him. If they owned him they would be giving him orders, but, of course, his intentions are directly opposite of what the Dominion wants and he acts on his own free will. Unlike your Military Governor.

 

[Vatonage]

Wait... what do you mean by thinking? Thinking they own him. They do own him, even if he's unwilling. You seem like a smart person, so I'm sure you're aware they broke Ulfric while in captivity with the intention of using him as an asset. It doesn't matter whether he's willing or not. Ulfric's a Thalmor pawn either way and thus, the Thalmor are one step ahead of him... and the saddest part of all is he doesn't realize what's actually happening.

What exactly has he done to benefit the Thalmor besides the war? Yes, they broke him in captivity, but the asset part wasn't executed very well. Starting a civil war is, at first glance, a wonderful idea, but now if Ulfric wins, the Thalmor have much more to lose. Stirring more hatred of them from the Nordic veterans isn't a good idea, either.

 

[Raijin]

Another thing on a sep matter, you know... you can defend the Stormcloak cause all you want and even if *somehow* it came out as being justified in the wash, the cause isn't the problem.

Because see, Ulfric is like a Trojan Horse. Willing or unwilling the man is being used by the Thalmor who conditioned him thru his 'handler' Elenwen... He was at Markarth for a reason and it wasn't no mercy mission either.

The Empire is one way or another getting rid of it's problem child, Titus Mede II, who signed the WGC. Although it's kind of sad in a way because he actually is a pretty cool guy. I honestly haven't said that enough. But Titus Mede is throwing himself on the sword to save the Empire, same as Uriel VII. He could have fought back or done whatever to escape but he didn't. And don't tell me Ulfric would do the same because his cause is centered around him... it's all about him and his personal pain.

The way I see it, you can just take the hit and support the Empire with the promise of a new Emperor and an Elder Council that is demanding change or you can 'fight the good fight' for something that may be Ulfric's cause, but it's the Thalmor's war.

I suspect the Thalmor may be behind this so called "Stormcloak rebellion" and the Dossier is the proof. The Empire derails the Thalmor's long term goals in Skyrim, Ulfric's rebellion victory or not, will not hinder the Thalmor.

All the Stormcloak rebellion truly is, is a Trojan horse and there is no simple, fast, or quick and easy way to freedom again. Faith and perseverance is the only means by which to defeat an enemy like the Thalmor who think in long terms.

Freedom is not free and Ulfric is making all these promises for a cause that really... ain't even his because the Thalmor are funding it and at one time or another the Thalmor planned it. He's just their point man, totally expendable. Ulfric's only purpose is to cause enough problems to kill the Empire.

Ulfric: "This is it for you. Any last words before I send you to Oblivion?"
Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
Ulfric: "It's a little more than a rebellion, don't you think?"
Galmar: "Heh."
Tullius: "We aren't the bad guys you know."
Ulfric: "Maybe not, but you certainly aren't the good guys."
Tullius: "Perhaps you're right. But then what does that make you?"
Ulfric: "You just said it yourself."
Galmar: "It makes us right."
Tullius: "And if I surrender?"
Ulfric: "The Empire I remember never surrendered."
Galmar: "That Empire is dead. And so are you."
Tullius: "So be it."

General Tullius is the true asset of the Thalmor, not Ulfric. He is Elenwen's poodle on the leash. He admitted that he had such vital piece of information that could of very well end the civil war, but he didn't. He kept on going. He did the Thalmor bidding by diverting much needed resources, and throwing away good soldiers quelling this rebellion. What do you have to say about that? Tullius hated Ulfric so much that he became blind from hatred.

Theirs a saying... The enemy of my enemy is my friend and Tullius was too blind to see this through.

You do realize that I'm trying to be neutral. Ulfric and Elisif marrying each other is the most neutral option that one can take. It would satisfy both supporters.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Ulfric is a stern hater of elvenkind, so how in the name of Talos would they get to him, or even set foot near Windhelm, if he ruled as High King? They're activities in Skyrim would be hampered greatly, Ulfric is not bound by some treaty and trying to stay neutral to the Thalmor, unlike the Empire. He'd hunt the Thalmor at every moment if they were still in Skyrim when he takes the High Throne.

I wouldn't say of Elvenkind but of The Dominion absolutely.

Right he just hates anyone who isn't a Nord.

Not even. He had NO problem with my Bosmer, My Dunmer, And even my Imperial. If you're going to say its a game mechanic that there's no racial discrimination in quests, I'll agree but if he truly was a racist Bethesda would have at least TRIED to make him sound a bit more racist. Especially since hes such an Important character.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Another thing on a sep matter, you know... you can defend the Stormcloak cause all you want and even if *somehow* it came out as being justified in the wash, the cause isn't the problem.

Because see, Ulfric is like a Trojan Horse. Willing or unwilling the man is being used by the Thalmor who conditioned him thru his 'handler' Elenwen... He was at Markarth for a reason and it wasn't no mercy mission either.

The Empire is one way or another getting rid of it's problem child, Titus Mede II, who signed the WGC. Although it's kind of sad in a way because he actually is a pretty cool guy. I honestly haven't said that enough. But Titus Mede is throwing himself on the sword to save the Empire, same as Uriel VII. He could have fought back or done whatever to escape but he didn't. And don't tell me Ulfric would do the same because his cause is centered around him... it's all about him and his personal pain.

The way I see it, you can just take the hit and support the Empire with the promise of a new Emperor and an Elder Council that is demanding change or you can 'fight the good fight' for something that may be Ulfric's cause, but it's the Thalmor's war.

I suspect the Thalmor may be behind this so called "Stormcloak rebellion" and the Dossier is the proof. The Empire derails the Thalmor's long term goals in Skyrim, Ulfric's rebellion victory or not, will not hinder the Thalmor.

All the Stormcloak rebellion truly is, is a Trojan horse and there is no simple, fast, or quick and easy way to freedom again. Faith and perseverance is the only means by which to defeat an enemy like the Thalmor who think in long terms.

Freedom is not free and Ulfric is making all these promises for a cause that really... ain't even his because the Thalmor are funding it and at one time or another the Thalmor planned it. He's just their point man, totally expendable. Ulfric's only purpose is to cause enough problems to kill the Empire.

Ulfric: "This is it for you. Any last words before I send you to Oblivion?"
Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
Ulfric: "It's a little more than a rebellion, don't you think?"
Galmar: "Heh."
Tullius: "We aren't the bad guys you know."
Ulfric: "Maybe not, but you certainly aren't the good guys."
Tullius: "Perhaps you're right. But then what does that make you?"
Ulfric: "You just said it yourself."
Galmar: "It makes us right."
Tullius: "And if I surrender?"
Ulfric: "The Empire I remember never surrendered."
Galmar: "That Empire is dead. And so are you."
Tullius: "So be it."

General Tullius is the true asset of the Thalmor, not Ulfric. He is Elenwen's poodle on the leash. He admitted that he had such vital piece of information that could of very well end the civil war, but he didn't. He kept on going. He did the Thalmor bidding by diverting much needed resources, and throwing away good soldiers quelling this rebellion. What do you have to say about that? Tullius hated Ulfric so much that he became blind from hatred.

Theirs a saying... The enemy of my enemy is my friend and Tullius was too blind to see this through.

You do realize that I'm trying to be neutral. Ulfric and Elisif marrying each other is the most neutral option that one can take. It would satisfy both supporters.

Certainly wouldn't satisfy Elisif... Of course Im sure Ulfric would be happy, Heh-heh.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Wait... what do you mean by thinking? Thinking they own him. They do own him, even if he's unwilling. You seem like a smart person, so I'm sure you're aware they broke Ulfric while in captivity with the intention of using him as an asset. It doesn't matter whether he's willing or not. Ulfric's a Thalmor pawn either way and thus, the Thalmor are one step ahead of him... and the saddest part of all is he doesn't realize what's actually happening.

What exactly has he done to benefit the Thalmor besides the war? Yes, they broke him in captivity, but the asset part wasn't executed very well. Starting a civil war is, at first glance, a wonderful idea, but now if Ulfric wins, the Thalmor have much more to lose. Stirring more hatred of them from the Nordic veterans isn't a good idea, either.

Exactly! All the Thalmor can hope for is that he keeps the war going on, and on, and somehow hinders the Empire.

 

[Raijin]

Ulfric is a stern hater of elvenkind, so how in the name of Talos would they get to him, or even set foot near Windhelm, if he ruled as High King? They're activities in Skyrim would be hampered greatly, Ulfric is not bound by some treaty and trying to stay neutral to the Thalmor, unlike the Empire. He'd hunt the Thalmor at every moment if they were still in Skyrim when he takes the High Throne.

I wouldn't say of Elvenkind but of The Dominion absolutely.

Right he just hates anyone who isn't a Nord.

If Ulfric hates anyone who isn't a Nord then why does he allow non nords to have businesses inside his city? Why does he allow an Altmer, yeah those Thalmor elves, to buy property? Including another Altmer to have an alchemy shop? Why does he allow a Dunmer to have a farming business that has Nords as workers? How dare he allow that to happen! Such disgusting practice for a racist Jarl! How humiliating is it for a Nord in Windhelm to work for a Dunmer? UGH!

 

[Raijin]

Certainly wouldn't satisfy Elisif... Of course Im sure Ulfric would be happy, Heh-heh.

Who cares. It's part of politics. Sometimes you do things that you don't want to do.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Wait... what do you mean by thinking? Thinking they own him. They do own him, even if he's unwilling. You seem like a smart person, so I'm sure you're aware they broke Ulfric while in captivity with the intention of using him as an asset. It doesn't matter whether he's willing or not. Ulfric's a Thalmor pawn either way and thus, the Thalmor are one step ahead of him... and the saddest part of all is he doesn't realize what's actually happening.

What exactly has he done to benefit the Thalmor besides the war? Yes, they broke him in captivity, but the asset part wasn't executed very well. Starting a civil war is, at first glance, a wonderful idea, but now if Ulfric wins, the Thalmor have much more to lose. Stirring more hatred of them from the Nordic veterans isn't a good idea, either.

Exactly! All the Thalmor can hope for is that he keeps the war going on, and on, and somehow hinders the Empire.

Nope. That's a gross generalization and proves you haven't thunk critically about the Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric Stormcloak.

 

[LegateFasendil]

I wouldn't say of Elvenkind but of The Dominion absolutely.

Right he just hates anyone who isn't a Nord.

If Ulfric hates anyone who isn't a Nord then why does he allow non nords to have businesses inside his city? Why does he allow an Altmer, yeah those Thalmor elves, to buy property? Including another Altmer to have an alchemy shop? Why does he allow a Dunmer to have a farming business that has Nords as workers? How dare he allow that to happen! Such disgusting practice for a racist Jarl! How humiliating is it for a Nord in Windhelm to work for a Dunmer? UGH!

Because they has MONEY to buy land and he has no other choice than to accept said monies for his 'cause' which will ultimately fl*ff them over.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Another thing on a sep matter, you know... you can defend the Stormcloak cause all you want and even if *somehow* it came out as being justified in the wash, the cause isn't the problem.

Because see, Ulfric is like a Trojan Horse. Willing or unwilling the man is being used by the Thalmor who conditioned him thru his 'handler' Elenwen... He was at Markarth for a reason and it wasn't no mercy mission either.

The Empire is one way or another getting rid of it's problem child, Titus Mede II, who signed the WGC. Although it's kind of sad in a way because he actually is a pretty cool guy. I honestly haven't said that enough. But Titus Mede is throwing himself on the sword to save the Empire, same as Uriel VII. He could have fought back or done whatever to escape but he didn't. And don't tell me Ulfric would do the same because his cause is centered around him... it's all about him and his personal pain.

The way I see it, you can just take the hit and support the Empire with the promise of a new Emperor and an Elder Council that is demanding change or you can 'fight the good fight' for something that may be Ulfric's cause, but it's the Thalmor's war.

I suspect the Thalmor may be behind this so called "Stormcloak rebellion" and the Dossier is the proof. The Empire derails the Thalmor's long term goals in Skyrim, Ulfric's rebellion victory or not, will not hinder the Thalmor.

All the Stormcloak rebellion truly is, is a Trojan horse and there is no simple, fast, or quick and easy way to freedom again. Faith and perseverance is the only means by which to defeat an enemy like the Thalmor who think in long terms.

Freedom is not free and Ulfric is making all these promises for a cause that really... ain't even his because the Thalmor are funding it and at one time or another the Thalmor planned it. He's just their point man, totally expendable. Ulfric's only purpose is to cause enough problems to kill the Empire.

Ulfric: "This is it for you. Any last words before I send you to Oblivion?"
Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
Ulfric: "It's a little more than a rebellion, don't you think?"
Galmar: "Heh."
Tullius: "We aren't the bad guys you know."
Ulfric: "Maybe not, but you certainly aren't the good guys."
Tullius: "Perhaps you're right. But then what does that make you?"
Ulfric: "You just said it yourself."
Galmar: "It makes us right."
Tullius: "And if I surrender?"
Ulfric: "The Empire I remember never surrendered."
Galmar: "That Empire is dead. And so are you."
Tullius: "So be it."

General Tullius is the true asset of the Thalmor, not Ulfric. He is Elenwen's poodle on the leash. He admitted that he had such vital piece of information that could of very well end the civil war, but he didn't. He kept on going. He did the Thalmor bidding by diverting much needed resources, and throwing away good soldiers quelling this rebellion. What do you have to say about that? Tullius hated Ulfric so much that he became blind from hatred.

Theirs a saying... The enemy of my enemy is my friend and Tullius was too blind to see this through.

You do realize that I'm trying to be neutral. Ulfric and Elisif marrying each other is the most neutral option that one can take. It would satisfy both supporters.

Certainly wouldn't satisfy Elisif... Of course Im sure Ulfric would be happy, Heh-heh.

I... I can't even... omg if you'll excuse me gentlemen I require alcohol to get that bad mental image out of my head.