Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

Also just because you surrender, doesn't mean its cowardly. I've stated many times that there were Strategic reasons as to WHY Ulfric chose what he chose. How are you not understanding this?The man's a Genius Tactician and Strategist and not to mention a great Warrior. I suppose Titus Mede II is cowardly for signing the WGC yes? I mean if we are using your "logic".

Being a true Nord means fighting when you know you are going to lose. Ulfric did not do that. Therefore, he is absolutely not a true Nord, and thus a coward/

Actually he did when you guy's sieged his city. He fought and died valiantly. I've already mentioned this several times. However, you must be too thick to understand you close minded Imperial dog!! Rot in Oblivion.

 

[Jeremius]

Also just because you surrender, doesn't mean its cowardly. I've stated many times that there were Strategic reasons as to WHY Ulfric chose what he chose. How are you not understanding this?The man's a Genius Tactician and Strategist and not to mention a great Warrior. I suppose Titus Mede II is cowardly for signing the WGC yes? I mean if we are using your "logic".

Being a true Nord means fighting when you know you are going to lose. Ulfric did not do that. Therefore, he is absolutely not a true Nord, and thus a coward/

Actually he did when you guy's sieged his city. He fought and died valiantly. I've already mentioned this several times. However, you must be too thick to understand you close minded Imperial dog!! Rot in Oblivion.

He dies for a song, not his beliefs, if he had any.

 

[Vatonage]

He dies for a song, not his beliefs, if he had any.

Whaaaaaa??!!!

Oh, yeah, definitely not doing this for the banning of Talos, among other things. Nope. He just wants a nice poem about him.

 

[Raijin]

Torygg chose to die like a warrior. Ulfric chose to surrender because he feared dying in the woods where there can be no song about him. Cowardly, vain, Non-Nord Jarl.

Torygg was no warrior. He doesn't have enough combat experience to become one.

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

Why is it a negative thing to surrender? Do you have any idea what goes through the mind of a person who is waiting to be executed knowing that this is going to be their last moment on earth?

Cowardly does not fit the definition (afraid in a way that makes you unable to do what is right or expected : lacking courage) of what Ulfric did. Ulfric stood his ground and accepted what awaits him.

Surrendering is an act of courage and what Ulfric did during the beginning of the game when the Imperials ambushed him was a courageous (the ability to do something that you know is difficult or dangerous) thing to do.

 

[Jeremius]

Torygg was no warrior. He doesn't have enough combat experience to become one.

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

Why is it a negative thing to surrender? Do you have any idea what goes through the mind of a person who is waiting to be executed knowing that this is going to be their last moment on earth?

Cowardly does not fit the definition (afraid in a way that makes you unable to do what is right or expected : lacking courage) of what Ulfric did. Ulfric stood his ground and accepted what awaits him.

Surrendering is an act of courage and what Ulfric did during the beginning of the game when the Imperials ambushed him was a courageous (the ability to do something that you know is difficult or dangerous) thing to do.

By surrendering, you mock all that you are fighting for, and give up the courage to keep fighting for it.

How is surrendering when you know you will lose not cowardly? He killed Torygg because he knew he would. But he feared dying the same way Torygg did because it was not the way he wanted it.

 

[Vatonage]

By surrendering, you mock all that you are fighting for, and give up the courage to keep fighting for it.

You can go ahead and think that. My work here seems in vain.

 

[Raijin]

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

Why is it a negative thing to surrender? Do you have any idea what goes through the mind of a person who is waiting to be executed knowing that this is going to be their last moment on earth?

Cowardly does not fit the definition (afraid in a way that makes you unable to do what is right or expected : lacking courage) of what Ulfric did. Ulfric stood his ground and accepted what awaits him.

Surrendering is an act of courage and what Ulfric did during the beginning of the game when the Imperials ambushed him was a courageous (the ability to do something that you know is difficult or dangerous) thing to do.

By surrendering, you mock all that you are fighting for, and give up the courage to keep fighting for it.

How is surrendering when you know you will lose not cowardly? He killed Torygg because he knew he would. But he feared dying the same way Torygg did because it was not the way he wanted it.

Ulfric did not fear death. He knew that once he surrenders that the Empire was going to execute him.

Sorry but it still doesn't fit the definition to what Ulfric did.

 

[Jeremius]

Why is it a negative thing to surrender? Do you have any idea what goes through the mind of a person who is waiting to be executed knowing that this is going to be their last moment on earth?

Cowardly does not fit the definition (afraid in a way that makes you unable to do what is right or expected : lacking courage) of what Ulfric did. Ulfric stood his ground and accepted what awaits him.

Surrendering is an act of courage and what Ulfric did during the beginning of the game when the Imperials ambushed him was a courageous (the ability to do something that you know is difficult or dangerous) thing to do.

By surrendering, you mock all that you are fighting for, and give up the courage to keep fighting for it.

How is surrendering when you know you will lose not cowardly? He killed Torygg because he knew he would. But he feared dying the same way Torygg did because it was not the way he wanted it.

Ulfric did not fear death. He knew that once he surrenders that the Empire was going to execute him.

Sorry but it still doesn't fit the definition to what Ulfric did.

He feared dying in the woods like a man. How does not that not fit the definition of a coward?

 

[Vatonage]

He feared dying in the woods like a man. How does not that not fit the definition of a coward?

Death is something you don't want. I believe this is quite obvious. Most living things have something called "self preservation", and death isn't exactly something you want when following that. You also can't do much when dead.

 

[Jeremius]

He feared dying in the woods like a man. How does not that not fit the definition of a coward?

Death is something you don't want. I believe this is quite obvious. Most living things have something called "self preservation", and death isn't exactly something you want when following that. You also can't do much when dead.

And you can't have a good image dying like a man in a location no one cares about. He did not fear death when he knew people will hear about it. He feared it when he knew it was not the vanity death he sought.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

I'm asking you this..
Why should it be Ulfrics fault that Tullius and the Imperial legion are too ignorant to realize that they're a pawn of the Thalmor? You have information there there indicating that the Thalmor are up to no good, and yet still pisses away resources and good men to fight this war? Tullius is a warmonger who claims to have diplomatic skills, yet fails to provide such skill.

So the next time you Imperials want to bring up the Thalmor dossier to accused Ulfric of being the thalmors favorite pet, Just remember what your General said as he pleas for his life

Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."

I feel like banging my head against a wall over this argument.

They aren't ignorant to the fact that they're "pawns". And they know damn well that it will cause a commotion if people are dragged off.
A quote from Rikke; When we destroy the rebellion, perhaps the Thalmor will call off their damned inquisitions. It's just making things worse.
They friggin' know, that's why they didn't enforce it in the first place and the Thalmor had no evidence because they were kept on a tight leash.

And then Ulfric prances into Solitude, shouting Torygg apart and singing crap about Talos, giving the Thalmor a foot in the door.
And with the rebellion he made it possible for them to start their 'crusade', getting Nords tortured and killed.

Tullius knows what's going on, he knows that they're trying to get at the Empire in any way they can - as an example; quote from Diplomatic Immunity: The Thalmor invite me here to remind everyone that they can tell the Empire what to do.; but he's disciplined and clever enough to play along, see here: I would refuse, but I don't want to jeopardize the peace between us. - unlike Ulfric who believes he knows the Thalmor's game just because he got fed with false information during interrogation 3 decades ago.

His "plea for life" was meant as a warning, to make them realize what the hell is going on and how much is at stake.
But yeah, Tullius was foolish to expect a guy like Ulfric to think that far. Can't blame Ulfric either though, he got played.

 

[Vatonage]

And you can't have a good image dying like a man in a location no one cares about. He did not fear death when he knew people will hear about it. He feared it when he knew it was not the vanity death he sought.

And he was smart for that. Let one man die for thousands to rally. Pretty good way to die.

 

[Raijin]

By surrendering, you mock all that you are fighting for, and give up the courage to keep fighting for it.

How is surrendering when you know you will lose not cowardly? He killed Torygg because he knew he would. But he feared dying the same way Torygg did because it was not the way he wanted it.

Ulfric did not fear death. He knew that once he surrenders that the Empire was going to execute him.

Sorry but it still doesn't fit the definition to what Ulfric did.

He feared dying in the woods like a man. How does not that not fit the definition of a coward?

Can you prove that Ufric was afraid to die in the woods?

 

[Jeremius]

Ulfric did not fear death. He knew that once he surrenders that the Empire was going to execute him.

Sorry but it still doesn't fit the definition to what Ulfric did.

He feared dying in the woods like a man. How does not that not fit the definition of a coward?

Can you prove that Ufric was afraid to die in the woods?

He chose not to die in the woods. How much evidence do you need other than the obvious.

 

[Jeremius]

And you can't have a good image dying like a man in a location no one cares about. He did not fear death when he knew people will hear about it. He feared it when he knew it was not the vanity death he sought.

And he was smart for that. Let one man die for thousands to blindly rally. Pretty good way to glorify yourself.

Omitted a word and spun another around.

 

[Vatonage]

Omitted a word and spun another around.

Has your tongue tasted sour grapes? Do you have nothing to do but attempt to turn my words around with your lack of comprehension? I believe the true coward is amongst us.

 

[Jeremius]

Omitted a word and spun another around.

Has your tongue tasted sour grapes? Do you have nothing to do but attempt to turn my words around with your lack of comprehension? I believe the true coward is amongst us.

No, the true coward is the man who chose vanity over being a true nord.

IF I was a Nord and were to die, I would die fighting, like a Nord.

 

[Vatonage]

No, the true coward is the man who chose vanity over being a true nord.

Blindly being a true Nord will get you nowhere if you can achieve more. Ulfric knew this, why die in such a foolish manner? He'd be the death of the rebellion had he suffered such a demise.

 

[Jeremius]

No, the true coward is the man who chose vanity over being a true nord.

Blindly being a true Nord will get you nowhere if you can achieve more. Ulfric knew this, why die in such a foolish manner? He'd be the death of the rebellion had he suffered such a demise.

Then Ulfric is not a true Nord, if he did not accept his death but try to take as many Imperials as he could with him.

 

[Vatonage]

Then Ulfric is not a true Nord.

OK.... And what else?