KingNLD
Member
do you even listen what i say if the great war is ended than! the Empire or mabye the new Skyrim
can take the elves land Summerset Isle and later remake a good gouverment the same as what america did with germany
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Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
do you even listen what i say if the great war is ended than! the Empire or mabye the new Skyrim
can take the elves land Summerset Isle and later remake a good gouverment the same as what america did with germany
Daelon DuLac
How do you backstab a Dragon?
They'll be gentle, I promise...
KingNLD
Member
yeah that's for sure! xDThey'll be gentle, I promise...
Gearuvagen
I know, You know
The "new" Skyrim? ha ha
You honestly think that a Stormcloak controlled Skyrim would stand a chance against the Aldmeri Dominion? How So?
I do believe the Empire needs to fix the problems Skyrim is having with it's government before we move on to Alinor.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Imperialism is very different to Communism, you should read up on the differences before posting.
indeed Freedom and Liberty!all the Nations in the Elder Scrolls most be a indepented Nation
but with the Future Second Great War not as that is ended than!
Divided provinces against a united Aldmeri Dominion does not go well. Skyrim doesn't work well with other provinces when it is acting alone, in fact the Nords would sooner invade it's neighbor than work with them. The way one should look at it is, are you willing for the age of men to come crashing down out of stubborn pride? Because you can't set aside that pride. The Thalmor have an advantage, men are fighting between themselves while they are becoming stronger with each death of a potential soldier.
The Empire aren't the bad guys, are you willing to stand together as men. Or do exactly what the Thalmor want, fight amongst ourselves until we can offer no resistance to their take over. The Thalmor want to rule over man, they want to turn us into slaves and oppress with an iron fist. You call the Empire the oppressors? No. The Thalmor are the masters of oppression, even their very ranks I suspect some form of brain washing. There is no way that many Elves can be a part of their madness. There is a document mentioning a Thalmor making an error and he was sent back to Alinor for 'Reeducation' I for one will not fall for their game.
The Thalmor benefit from the Stormcloaks distracting the Empire, wasting resources and soldiers to fight each other instead of the real threat. Skyrim can't attack the Aldmeri Dominion by themselves, without Imperial aid their province will take too long to rebuild after the Civil War. Ulfric is by far no master mind of strategy and resource management, he's already been captured three times. Windhelm's stockpiles are already empty after a few months without Imperial support. A few months, how long until Skyrim is in the same condition? A year until Skyrim is desperate and starving. How long until the Clan wars start up again over food and resources, the Jarls squabble quite often and never really see eye to eye. It is the reason the Companions themselves haven't even got involved in the Civil War. "There is no honor to be had, in the squabbling of Jarls"
The Thalmor want to keep Ulfric Stormcloak alive, I won't become a part of their plan. You tell me who is the bigger puppet?
The Legionnaires are the only one's who can see the Thalmor are behind this unrest, the Stormcloaks are blinded by their stubborn pride to even look at what is before them. People say the Empire are the puppets because they know the Thalmor are behind it, that they aren't doing anything peaceful. You fail to understand, Ulfric doesn't want peace, the Empire didn't want a conflict in Skyrim it is the last thing they wanted. Stormcloak supporters make it out the Empire wanted bloodshed, that they're invading Skyrim.
Tell me this, if the Empire wanted to oppress and invade Skyrim. Why are all their trained soldiers all the way on the other side of Cyrodiil? Why would the Empire 'invade' and 'oppress' from such a weakened stand point. If history shows anything, it is that the Imperial Army is quite good at invasions and occupying provinces through Military might. If the Empire wanted to oppress, you would know it. There wouldn't be Jarls and there wouldn't be a High King. There would be Imperial Commanders instead of Jarls.
The Emperor sent General Tullius to deal with the rebellion, the Legions in Skyrim are all locally recruited, both Nords and Imperials in these Legions talk about recently joining to fight for their homes. If the Emperor wanted to oppress, he would of sent General Tullius, with an army.
The Empire's main concern is the Aldmeri Dominion, they are preparing for war with the Aldmeri Dominion. They can attack the Aldmeri Dominion, the Imperial Army is positioned along the Dominion's border. You think the Empire wants to enforce the Talos ban? That it would go out of its way to stamp out Talos worship? For twenty six years, Talos worship seems to have been quite high under Imperial stability. The Thalmor can't drag people off without evidence and it isn't easy getting evidence when the Empire doesn't allow them to kick down doors. Nords and Imperials alike, still had their little shrines to Talos, they didn't care about the treaty. Twenty six years without incident, until the rise of the "Sons of Skyrim" and Ulfric's rebellion, causing the Skyrim garrions focus to deal with this rebellion, not the protection of it's citizens from Thalmor doing whatever they want.
Ulfric speaks of taking his entire army to the Dominion, there is only one possible way he can do this. By ship and it would end in a slaughter. But that doesn't matter to him, he cares for songs and stories. What better story is there for a Nordic King, heroically defeated while invading the Elves by ship like Ysgramor himself. His army killed to the last man, a fight to the death. Then he will fade into history, content with himself, while possibly thousands died for that song. There are many sides of Ulfric, he seems to change his personality often which I suspect is due to him being broken and remade by the Thalmor. He's lost himself in his own display, like when he gives this grand speech to Galmar on why he fights, like he's trying to convince himself.
There is nothing more fatal, then when you lose who you are in a display. One moment he cares for his people, the next he cares for power, the next he cares about how he might appear weak when a truce is offered. Or one moment he's all against having people die and the next he's toying with Tullius as if trying to draw it out and add drama to it, like it's all some play to be written.
Galmar: "Just kill him and let's be done with it already."
Ulfric: "Come, Galmar. Where's your sense of the dramatic moment?"
Galmar: "By the gods! If it's a good ending to some damn story you're after..."
I would sooner bend my knee to the Lord of Alinor, than follow some ego driven, power hungry usurper. He wants to use the Dragonborn for his own legend.
The one thing I greatly respected of Tullius, was in his speech he didn't feel the need to use me as a tool of inspiration. Many Stormcloak supporters in this thread have mentioned how that is bad, but it is good. In the Legion that is the real brotherhood, not the Stormcloaks. Where credit goes to all who fought and those who paid with their lives fighting the Civil War. I wouldn't want to take credit away from the boys who stormed the forts with me, held the lines in the Battle of Whiterun, stormed the gates of Windhelm and fought to the bitter end in the close tight corners of Windhelm's streets and alleyways.
So who are the puppets?
The group that is being aided by the Thalmor and are doing what the Thalmor want?
The group that knows the Thalmor are behind it and are preparing for war with them?
Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
Legate Fasendil: "We're supposedly at peace now, but I put in to be stationed here to keep an eye on the Thalmor, I have a feeling they're behind this unrest here in Skyrim."
Kraad Vestru
Member
Sheer distance favors the defense of Skyrim. The Dominion has to march through somewhere to get to them overland and has to sail to invade by sea. I doubt Ulfric or anyone else would sit by and let the elves sail a fleet of warships to Skyrim. Considering High Rock and Hammerfell are both kinda hostile to them at the moment. Considering the Nords love their ships I doubt that they would stay put and leave them alone if they did. and I don't think the Empire would let them march ten thousand troops up their rear either... so saying that Shyrim would fall to the Dominion is kinda lame, find a new tactic. Also it should be noted that Skyrim already was property of the elves at one point and look what happened to them...
Gearuvagen
I know, You know
regardless Ulfric says he will bring the fight to them...I never said the AD would attack Skyrim. But it is fact Ulfric wants to attack them.
Because he's well....you know.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
They had Mages back then. Also Skyrim isn't planning a defense. It would be great if Skyrim was, going defensive, but that isn't the case.
Ulfric: "The Empire is weak, obsolete. Look at how far we've come and with so little. When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion."
Galmar: "First we'll kick the Thalmor and their bloody Imperial puppets out of the country. Then we'll rebuild Skyrim into the land she once was. When we are done with that, we will take our army to the Dominion, and show those pointy-eared bastards not every man is fit to be their slave."
Kraad Vestru
Member
1.) I never said Titus Mede's abandonment if the Imperial city was the wrong thing to do only someone who has never read the books on the Great War in the game can say that. He traded lives for time, in war there is nothing wrong with that because if he didn't he would have lost entirely.
2.) The only thing that Mede surrendered was Talos. He fought another Empire to a standstill. The only thing that I think he should done is if he had spent a week or two gather information he could have taken a good chunk of territory from the Elves and made a better treaty one where they were on equal footing not allowing a hostile nation's troops be able to run rampant around his. If he had done this Hammerfell might still be part of the Empire.
3.) And there would have been a Civil War anyway.
4.) Good warriors don't have the patience for politicians (who can blame them) They need someone else to do that for them.
5.) At the time the High King spoke for all Nords. So yes the Nords did give it to them. Never said Ulfric did, I doubt Ulfric would have done the same because of the heritage, claim, and the resources on it.
6.) Whiterun accepted the Legion after Ulfric's demands, not before that's why there was not a Legate in Whiterun. Jarl Balgruuf wanted to stay out of it because it would have killed too many of his people, and it didn't help that he didn't have the war fluffy feelings for Ulfric that Skald has either.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Balgruuf doesn't like Elisif either, that's also part of the reason he stayed out of it.
Kraad Vestru
Member
And this is why I release Madanach instead of killing him. Only and idiot goes to fight another kingdom when his is in disorder. With an internal threat Uflric and Glamar's... gung-ho attitudes can be curbed long enough for them to actually make Skyrim defensible again. With the Reachmen up in arms, and the Empire to the south I doubt, Ulfric would condone sending out an invasion fleet or raiding parties to the Dominion for a while.
Kraad Vestru
Member
Very true, but if I mention that some Empire supporters try to flay me alive. Kinda like the "rabid" Stormcloak supporters that fly in here from time to time...
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
You would be surprised at what Ulfric does. Season Unending, he traded Riften for Markarth. He gave the Empire the ability to threaten his southern flank, to reestablish communication with Cyrodiil and he gained a Hold that is surrounded by enemies, with the Silver needing to pass through Legion and Forsworn held territories.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
I prefer more Empire supporting Jarls than I do Stormcloak ones. Winterhold gets a good replacement, especially Dawnstar gets an amazing replacement, Windhelm gets a great replacement. Riften doesn't really matter Maven ruled the city anyway, so Stormcloak or Empire victory doesn't matter there. Falkreath I actually was impressed by the Stormcloak Jarl there. Even if he is paranoid and suspects a plot and has you break into the house of his former Housecarl. But he's alright when he's back in the chair.
Balgruuf is a good Jarl, he cared more about the dragon issue than all the other Jarls. Ulfric only cared when he could get some land.
Kraad Vestru
Member
Season Unending is bout makeing a short term peace to kill Alduin then they start to kill each other again. If you give the Stormcloaks Morthal without giving up Dawnstar it gives them a route to Wndindhelm them deliver the silver.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Yeah but I didn't feel the need to give them another Hold. Especially since Alduin was brought up just moments before and then the real threat was known.
The end of the world and he's like "...So how about giving us Morthal?"
Kraad Vestru
Member
In a perfect Skyrim, I could convince Balgruuf to join Ulfric, kick the @$$ hat Skald into the sea and let him freeze to death, and replace the Jarl of Witnerhold with one that actually likes the College and see it as an assest like Kraldar. But life is not perfect and nither is Skyrim.
Kraad Vestru
Member
Tullius is the same though, the dragons a eating people and killing everything is sight with fire and ice so why not give us Dawnstar...