Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Ivory]

Yup a very dangerous game indeed. Ulfric is (in my opinion) an a**hole and selfish b***erd, but, he gets results. Even if they are for he's own selfish needs. He promised to return of legal Talos worship, and, if the civil war goes he's way, he delivers that promise. That's the way I look at it at least.

Defeating the empire in the civil war isn't defeating the Thalmor. Food for thought

 

[Nord Warrior]

Defeating the empire in the civil war isn't defeating the Thalmor. Food for thought

I know, but if skyrim is no longer part of the empire, then the imperials cannot force the Talos ban on them, therefore the empire are not violating the Concordat.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Regardless of politics or the future of Tamriel. The Stormcloaks are right. No one has the right to stop you from worshiping someone. End of story. If someone told me I couldn't worship who I wanted, consequences be damned, I would not accept that. If I were a Nord then the Stormcloak rebbelion would be something I would willingly die for. Yes Ulfric is an asshole, yes Tullius is just doing he's job. Entirely irrelevant. Religion is religion and whoever tries to deny someone that right, is wrong. Plain and simple.

"This was our land. We were here first. Then the Nords came and put chains on us. Forbid us from worshipping our gods." - Madanach

Nords are also denying the people of the Reach free worship. They were slaughtered by Ulfric Stormcloak and his Militia creating the Forsworn, now they're an entire new issue to deal with.

Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered. Native women were tortured to give up names of Forsworn fighters who had fled the city or were in the hills of the Reach. Anyone who lived in the city, Forsworn and Nord alike, were executed if they had not fought with Ulfric and his men when they breached the gates. "You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips as he ordered the deaths of shopkeepers, farmers, the elderly, and any child old enough to lift a sword that had failed in the call to fight with him.

So when a "grateful" Empire accepted Ulfric's victory and sent soldiers to re-establish the rule of law in the Reach, it was no surprise that he would demand to be allowed to worship Talos freely before the Legion could enter. With chaos running through the streets of Markarth and the reports of deaths rising every day, the Empire had no choice but to grant Ulfric and his men their worship. - The Bear of Markarth

Talos worship was still ongoing under the Empire's complete rule, the Nords didn't pay much attention to the Talos ban and everyone still had their little shrine to Talos, the ban has been in place for nearly thirty years without issue, the Thalmor used Ulfric to gain a foothold into Skyrim, he is a Thalmor asset because of this, they benefit from his survival, they were in Helgan trying to save him from losing his head. He caused the problems and forced the Empire's hand.

"It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down." - Alvor

It took the Thalmor an entire week to make an arrest of someone shouting about Talos in Markarth, which is the headquarters of the their Talos hunting group, the Justiciars.

 

[Ozan]

((In the defense of the Thalmor, it was cold outside. They miss Summerset. :C))

 

[Nord Warrior]

"This was our land. We were here first. Then the Nords came and put chains on us. Forbid us from worshipping our gods." - Madanach

Nords are also denying the people of the Reach free worship. They were slaughtered by Ulfric Stormcloak and his Militia creating the Forsworn, now they're an entire new issue to deal with.

Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered. Native women were tortured to give up names of Forsworn fighters who had fled the city or were in the hills of the Reach. Anyone who lived in the city, Forsworn and Nord alike, were executed if they had not fought with Ulfric and his men when they breached the gates. "You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips as he ordered the deaths of shopkeepers, farmers, the elderly, and any child old enough to lift a sword that had failed in the call to fight with him.

So when a "grateful" Empire accepted Ulfric's victory and sent soldiers to re-establish the rule of law in the Reach, it was no surprise that he would demand to be allowed to worship Talos freely before the Legion could enter. With chaos running through the streets of Markarth and the reports of deaths rising every day, the Empire had no choice but to grant Ulfric and his men their worship. - The Bear of Markarth

Talos worship was still ongoing under the Empire's complete rule, the Nords didn't pay much attention to the Talos ban and everyone still had their little shrine to Talos, the ban has been in place for nearly thirty years without issue, the Thalmor used Ulfric to gain a foothold into Skyrim, he is a Thalmor asset because of this, they benefit from his survival, they were in Helgan trying to save him from losing his head. He caused the problems and forced the Empire's hand.

"It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down." - Alvor

It took the Thalmor an entire week to make an arrest of someone shouting about Talos in Markarth, which is the headquarters of the their Talos hunting group, the Justiciars.

The Markarth incident had nothing to do with the Reachmens Religion, yes, ulfric slaughtered them, yes, he tortured people, yes, he was ruthless when he never had to be. But it had nothing to do with religion, Ulfric took the city of Markarth in 4E176 after being employed by Jarl Igmund. He took it from the Reachmen because they took it from the empire in 4E 174. However, Jarl Igmund was forced to betray Ulfric by the Imperials. He voices he's displeasure of this when you interact with him. I'm not denying that Ulfric is a murdering savage and an a**hole, but even a**holes can be right. From a religion point of view at least.

 

[Docta Corvina]

OMFG A RED DEAD REDEMPTION REFERENCEEEEEE YOU WIN ALL THE INTERNETS

I freaking love Herbert Moon.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

HELP ME! I'M HERBERT MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ivory]

I know, but if skyrim is no longer part of the empire, then the imperials cannot force the Talos ban on them, therefore the empire are not violating the Concordat.

The imperials did not enforce the Talos ban until Ulfric started screaming about it. Even then still, its not the imperials locking away Talos worshippers. It's the Thalmor. Defeat the Thalmor, the imperials lift the Talos ban. People always seem to forget that the imperials worship Talos as much as any nord. (Delphine is a good example of this, even if she is a over zealous dragon hating bitch.) Stormclock supporters are helping destroy what's left of the empire Talos created and spent his lifetime to achieve. You want freedom to worship Talos, fight the Thalmor, not the Empire.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Markarth incident had nothing to do with the Reachmens Religion, yes, ulfric slaughtered them, yes, he tortured people, yes, he was ruthless when he never had to be. But it had nothing to do with religion, Ulfric took the city of Markarth in 4E176 after being employed by Jarl Igmund. He took it from the Reachmen because they took it from the empire in 4E 174. However, Jarl Igmund was forced to betray Ulfric by the Imperials. He voices he's displeasure of this when you interact with him. I'm not denying that Ulfric is a murdering savage and an a**hole, but even a**holes can be right. From a religion point of view at least.

The Markarth Incident had much to do with religion, Ulfric's terms were the worship of Talos. Igmund was forced to hand up Ulfric by the Thalmor, they threatened war if Ulfric and his men were not arrested for breaching the treaty thousands had just died for, the war ending just one year prior.

 

[Lunaruse]

And they will all be killed shortly after gaining their freedom to worship Talos as loudly as they want. Their sons and daughters, their mothers and fathers will all be put to the sword because Ulfric was too short sighted to see that it would be more advantageous to keep quiet and bide for time so that the future generations could also freely worship.


On a totally seperate note:
Is it just me or does the Stormcloak ending make you love Legate Rikke even more?

oh and Ulfric and her totally had a thing at some point. Just saying.

 

[Raijin]

I actually feel sorry for Legate Rikke. I feel sorry for her because the Imperial Legion of Skyrim are weak. Even her own General... her superior for talos sakes gives up during battle. What kind of General would do something like that? Don't he have some dignity at all?

If the Legion of Skyrim had more people like Rikke perhaps they would accomplish something rather than being the Thalmors pet bitch.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Tullius jumps to Rikke's defense if she is attacked, he doesn't just sit there until she dies, he fights to the end. Tullius actually faces his death quite well, his last words are simply "So be it."

Though going out in a blaze of glory isn't something to be proud of, Tullius knew when he was beaten and he can admit that.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Actually, Tulius is described as being a very competent and capable general. Hadvar states how Tulius had only been assigned to Skyrim for a short while before he turned things around for the Legion and managed to capture Ulfric.

And I wouldn't begin to bash Tulius for surrendering when, in Hadvar's words, "Ulfric surrendered pretty meekly, so much for his death and glory reputation."

 

[Daelon DuLac]

How do the Stormcloaks and Imperials feel about Orcs? I realize they're not Nords, but they've been there almost as long and certainly are very similar.

Only asking as I'm debating where my Orc should put his loyalties. I would have thought Legion since all of the ones I meet in game seem to have that background, but I'm just not sure.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

I think the stormcloaks don't care for orcs. Mostly because no strongholds are in their holds as far as I know. I mean Orcs are pariahs so no one really gives a flying fluff about them.

That said I think the Legion uses orcs as heavy infantry and love and respect Orcs as soldiers.

 

[Ozan]

How do the Stormcloaks and Imperials feel about Orcs? I realize they're not Nords, but they've been there almost as long and certainly are very similar.

Only asking as I'm debating where my Orc should put his loyalties. I would have thought Legion since all of the ones I meet in game seem to have that background, but I'm just not sure.

((Orcs are more heavily associated with the Imperial Legion. Not sure what SC thinks, probably not well, but the Legion definitely has a longer history with Orcs and positive positions th Orcs.))

 

[Raijin]

I think the stormcloaks don't care for orcs. Mostly because no strongholds are in their holds as far as I know. I mean Orcs are pariahs so no one really gives a flying fluff about them.

That said I think the Legion uses orcs as heavy infantry and love and respect Orcs as soldiers.

I'm sure the Orc's don't care about the Stormcloaks either. After all it is not their religion that's being threaten by the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion. They can still worship Malacath without being halt off to the Thalmor prisons, or to be executed on sight.

The Stronghold Orcs don't care for the Nords and the Nords don't care for them. It's neutral territory.

 

[Dagmar]

I think the stormcloaks don't care for orcs. Mostly because no strongholds are in their holds as far as I know.

Two of the four Orc Strongholds are in Stormcloak Holds. Narzulbur is in Eastmarch and Largashbur is in the Rift.

 

[DrunkenMage]

How do the Stormcloaks and Imperials feel about Orcs? I realize they're not Nords, but they've been there almost as long and certainly are very similar.

Only asking as I'm debating where my Orc should put his loyalties. I would have thought Legion since all of the ones I meet in game seem to have that background, but I'm just not sure.

The Imperial Legion escorted many Orc refugees into Skyrim after their Kingdom was destroyed by Hammerfell and High Rock. The Nord guards of Windhelm dislike the Orcs, calling their Strongholds "An affront to my people."

They're Stormcloaks. If you're not a Nord, chances are they more than likely dislike you.

"Why, because I'm a proud citizen of the Empire? Because the Stormcloaks only want Nords in Skyrim? The Stormcloaks can rot in Oblivion for all I care." - Arcadia

 

[Raijin]

How do the Stormcloaks and Imperials feel about Orcs? I realize they're not Nords, but they've been there almost as long and certainly are very similar.

Only asking as I'm debating where my Orc should put his loyalties. I would have thought Legion since all of the ones I meet in game seem to have that background, but I'm just not sure.

The Imperial Legion escorted many Orc refugees into Skyrim after their Kingdom was destroyed by Hammerfell and High Rock. The Nord guards of Windhelm dislike the Orcs, calling their Strongholds "An affront to my people."

Yet it's OK for the Stronghold orc's to get snippy at me by saying that I'm not welcome, and won't let me conduct business with them until I become a Blood-kin. Already their trying to force me into their lifestyle. All I wanted to do is to sell off items that's in my inventory. Why do I need to be a Blood-kin to do that?

And perhaps the reason why the Windhelm guards dislike the Stronghold Orc's is because they refuse to help in the effort to fight for skyrim's freedom.