Xbox 360 The New Improved(?) Smithing

[skyrimaddict1323]

This is exactly my point. I honestly believe Bethesda originally intended smithing to function as it now does. Put it this way, they amount of times folks have said on various forums I use, that Mages are just too weak compared to any type of warrior. And I agree with them. This smithing rebalances the different types of chars, especially in the early and mid lvls.

Put it another way, if smithing had been like this from the start, everyone would have accepted it. I can sort of understand some folks wanting to play `god` type chars....but you'll get there anyway, and where's the fun if you don't have at least some struggle on the way?

My point is that skyrim, as well as the other TES titles and the fallout titles, is that there is no "when you should" only a "when you want to". THIS is what Beth tries to accomplish with all their games. But now, since so many people complained, they took part of that aspect away from people.

You're absolutely right that people would have accepted it if this was the way smithing was with the original release, but the fact of the matter is that it wasn't released like this.

I'm not trying to imply that either of us is right or wrong, i'm simply stating that in my opinion it sucks that Beth changed it because while the people who are looking for realism (who could have been satisfied by simply not power leveling) got their way but the people who wanted to power level have had that option taken away from them.

 

[Drewski]

My point is that skyrim, as well as the other TES titles and the fallout titles, is that there is no "when you should" only a "when you want to". THIS is what Beth tries to accomplish with all their games. But now, since so many people complained, they took part of that aspect away from people.

You're absolutely right that people would have accepted it if this was the way smithing was with the original release, but the fact of the matter is that it wasn't released like this.

I'm not trying to imply that either of us is right or wrong, i'm simply stating that in my opinion it sucks that Beth changed it because while the people who are looking for realism (who could have been satisfied by simply not power leveling) got their way but the people who wanted to power level have had that option taken away from them.

I can't really agree with the first paragraph, because the vast majority of the skills/spells etc in the game have always been restricted to basically `when you've put the requisite work in`, not `when you want to`. Any player will really have to work to get a paralysis spell by mid game, and similar for invisibility or incinerate. Likewise, to get the better sneak perks/skills requires active sneaking in the range of enemies (although sneak is easy to level by abusing mechanisms...so maybe not the best example)

Anyways, my point is that you could just go and buy all the leather/iron etc in each city, (make iron daggers/hide gauntlets), rinse and repeat, and then go to Gloombound Mine, and make a whole arsenal of Ebony Weapons and Armour, right off the bat (even Daedric if you knew where to get hearts)....and only then start your adventuring. I don't see how that's powerlevelling.

I agree with you that there's no right or wrong with this, and I'm just trying to put the pro side across.

As for quickly training smithing post 1.5, I'm sure that someone will come up with some method (I won't say exploit ) that will restore it to its former glory...

 

[sprugly]

Having leveled smithing from 95-100 last night I did notice the difference.

And to be honest as much as it took me a bot longer I like it. I had to go mine some more ebony just for the leveling. It makes it more interesting. More what can I get and less gimme your iron

Sprugly

 

[XbSuper]

I like the change. As for the power leveling discussion, you may not be able to power level ONLY smithing now, but the oghma infinium exploit still exists(I call it an exploit not a glitch, because it hasn't been removed yet, so I assume it was intended). So for those that want to be godlike early on, the option is still there.

 

[skyrimaddict1323]

As i said before, the people that don't like to power level - and it is power leveling, because power leveling is doing something repeatedly to raise a specific skill - are happy, and the people that wanted to power level smithing are now cut off. So congratulations to the people that wanted it changed, you got your way at the cost of some people no longer being able to play their game the way they want

 

[redrkt]

1) Perkless said: "But a part of me liked being able to power level so as to claim my rightful place as God of Skyrim that much quicker."

2) skyrimaddict said: "As i said before, the people that don't like to power level - and it is power leveling, because power leveling is doing something repeatedly to raise a specific skill - are happy, and the people that wanted to power level smithing are now cut off. So congratulations to the people that wanted it changed, you got your way at the cost of some people no longer being able to play their game the way they want"

I agree completely with both these statements for various reasons.

1) Since Dovahkiin is supposed to be powerful enough to defeat Alduin then this character should be able to be as powerful as possible as soon as possible in the game.

2) To all the people who complained about power leveling, this is just the same thing as what happened with Gran Turismo 5 and the ablility to duplicate cars, this was not a requirement nor a glitch, this was something that was built into the original game release and should have been left alone, because as with ANY open ended game, you should have the choice as to how you advance and if you choose to advance via power leveling, so be it. IF you choose not to advance thru the game this way then also so be it.

For people who don't like power leveling DON'T DO IT, really is pretty simple
How I choose to play MY game does not affect how you play YOUR game (until online is included at least).
and for people who choose not to power level to whine and cry about it is just simply childish and immature.

I paid my money ($100 for CE) for MY copy of the game and how I choose to play it is up to me not you nor the Devs (basic principle behind an RPG ROLEPLAYING)

Just the same as if I choose to create a kit that can one-shot anything in the game, that is my decision not YOURS, and whether you like the fact that I can do it or not really does not matter to me,

Plain and simple:

PLAY THE GAME THE WAY YOU WANT TO. BUT DO NOT DICTATE TO OTHER PEOPLE AS TO HOW THEY SHOULD PLAY THEIR GAME.

 

[Drewski]

...[snip]....

PLAY THE GAME THE WAY YOU WANT TO. BUT DO NOT DICTATE TO OTHER PEOPLE AS TO HOW THEY SHOULD PLAY THEIR GAME.

I feel a city guard moment coming on.....must resist...must...can't...

"Let me guess, Someone stole your sweetroll?"


(Runs and ducks for cover...sorry about that ,and please take it only in jest)

 

[Black-Tongue]

I was never in favor of altering the game to make it harder. It sucks that Bethesda had to waste time catering to the community's general lack of self control regarding the smithing skill.

Alchemy has always used the value system. Look how well it regulates skill grinding.

Wheat and Giant's toes anyone?

 

[Vraek]

I don't think Enchanting will be affected too much, but I get the feeling that dwemer stuff is quickly gonna become a good thing to grind- dwarven bows are made of 1 iron and 2 dwarvern ingots iirc, and the amount of dwemer material around skyrim is insane anyway, so I imagine that'll help. That or warhammers, since warhammers are worth the most in each class

 

[Gowsh]

I power leveled Smithing to around 30 but have "played fair" since.

I seem to get pretty much the same bump from jewelry as before the patch.

It can be a bit tedious transmuting iron ore to the silver or gold you need for the jewelry, but it provides a feeling of accomplishment as you slave away Aside from improving my equipment, that's how I've improved the skill since I took the pledge.

I'm up to 86 and I just can't wait to make some Daedric stuff! I've got 3 Daedra hearts saved up already.

Best.

 

[Zoa Two Tails]

Sometimes alchemist shops have deadra hearts and they will usually respawn every 48 hours.

 

[sprugly]

As for what is best to craft now to up your smithing.

I can't say for all materials but I mines a load of ebony and was crafting bows. 3 ingots for a bow at just under 1500 gold. 500 gold per ingot was the best ratio I could find.

Sprugly

 

[Perkless in Skyrim]

I was never in favor of altering the game to make it harder. It sucks that Bethesda had to waste time catering to the community's general lack of self control regarding the smithing skill.

Alchemy has always used the value system. Look how well it regulates skill grinding.

Wheat and Giant's toes anyone?

I've heard the huge boost from Giant's Toe is a glitch. Here's hoping they don't fix it or the restoration potion glitch.

I don't think Enchanting will be affected too much, but I get the feeling that dwemer stuff is quickly gonna become a good thing to grind- dwarven bows are made of 1 iron and 2 dwarvern ingots iirc, and the amount of dwemer material around skyrim is insane anyway, so I imagine that'll help. That or warhammers, since warhammers are worth the most in each class

Agreed. Easy to get too. I'm still waiting to update to 1.5 but once I do I'll become especially thorough clearing out Dwemer ruins and making routine Dwemer raids to Calcelmo in Markarth. There are a few goodies in the Dwemer Museum as well but I'm not sure if they'll respawn.

 

[redrkt]

I've heard the huge boost from Giant's Toe is a glitch. Here's hoping they don't fix it or the restoration potion glitch.


Agreed. Easy to get too. I'm still waiting to update to 1.5 but once I do I'll become especially thorough clearing out Dwemer ruins and making routine Dwemer raids to Calcelmo in Markarth. There are a few goodies in the Dwemer Museum as well but I'm not sure if they'll respawn.

I don't think this is a glitch, as it clearly is designed to create stronger potions

 

[Train]

This is exactly my point. I honestly believe Bethesda originally intended smithing to function as it now does. Put it this way, they amount of times folks have said on various forums I use, that Mages are just too weak compared to any type of warrior. And I agree with them. This smithing rebalances the different types of chars, especially in the early and mid lvls.

Put it another way, if smithing had been like this from the start, everyone would have accepted it. I can sort of understand some folks wanting to play `god` type chars....but you'll get there anyway, and where's the fun if you don't have at least some struggle on the way?

Yeah, it seems everyone thinks mages are weak...but they're not. Maybe at first, but once you get to lvl 25-30 they're overpowered it seems. Thing is, I'd use the smithing exploit even for a mage...I know, it's shameful.

Wait a minute...you have some understanding of why people want to play 'god' chars? Please do tell!

I'm not trying to imply that either of us is right or wrong, i'm simply stating that in my opinion it sucks that Beth changed it because while the people who are looking for realism (who could have been satisfied by simply not power leveling) got their way but the people who wanted to power level have had that option taken away from them.

I'm reminded of a saying: you can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself. I'm sure Bethesda is more in favor of those that want realism, they're not about leave something broken just because there's some that like the exploit. Beth probably didn't realize that the smithing had that problem until it was complained about, then when they found out, they worked in a fix. Beth is always going to be opposed to powerleveling, they want their game to be balanced, Todd Howard gives a great talk on that and how delicate the balance is.

Also, you must realize that not everyone who's going to buy the game has bought it...what about someone getting the game for the first time, they'll never know smithing changed unless they see a discussion like this online.

 

[Drewski]

......[snip]

Wait a minute...you have some understanding of why people want to play 'god' chars? Please do tell!

Erm, well, (looks sheepish), because I of course tried it myself on one character . I bought all the Leather and Iron in Riverwood, went to Whiterun, did the same...made crap kit, sold it (made a few potions for extra cash). Got the coach to Whiterun, did the same, coach to Solituide, Riften etc. Didn't do basically ANY fighting until I had full Ebony set.....It got old in about 4 RL gameplay hrs after that, and was one of the only characters I've actually fully deleted..

I just felt a little dirty......

But of course, each to their own, it IS your game, I'll agree with that.

 

[Train]

Erm, well, (looks sheepish), because I of course tried it myself on one character . I bought all the Leather and Iron in Riverwood, went to Whiterun, did the same...made crap kit, sold it (made a few potions for extra cash). Got the coach to Whiterun, did the same, coach to Solituide, Riften etc. Didn't do basically ANY fighting until I had full Ebony set.....It got old in about 4 RL gameplay hrs after that, and was one of the only characters I've actually fully deleted..

I just felt a little dirty......

But of course, each to their own, it IS your game, I'll agree with that.

I did the same thing myself once, and as soon as I had a full set of Daedric armor (I know, that's really bad) I couldn't even play that file anymore. In fact, just doing it ruined warrior classes for a while, I played mage and stealth after that. Hardly any of my characters get past lvl 25, very few get to see 35, and only one has made it passed 50. For me, as soon as the game gets easy in any way, it's time for a restart.

So I'm still curious as to why people actually play 'god' chars., I understand getting one kinda', but actually playing one is beyond me. People that actually have characters at lvl 80 for instance...what's the point? Most of the skills you have are at 100 and can't increase, when leveling up is over half the fun.

I stand behind Bethesda's decision, it's not a matter of what some people want to do, it's a matter of what no one wants to have happen unless they've earned it. TES has always rewarded exploration, I've said this on another thread, but I'll say it again: newbs need to go play Morrowind...better yet play Daggerfall...at least then you'd understand what TES is about.

 

[Drewski]

I did the same thing myself once, and as soon as I had a full set of Daedric armor (I know, that's really bad) I couldn't even play that file anymore. In fact, just doing it ruined warrior classes for a while, I played mage and stealth after that. Hardly any of my characters get past lvl 25, very few get to see 35, and only one has made it passed 50. For me, as soon as the game gets easy in any way, it's time for a restart. [snip]

That sounds almost exactly like me. Especially re not being able to play warriors for a while after. I had to go the extremely heavy RP element for a while....

But enough of us patting each other on the back. This is getting quite a bit off topic.

 

[DdraigGwyn]

I did the same thing myself once, and as soon as I had a full set of Daedric armor (I know, that's really bad) I couldn't even play that file anymore. In fact, just doing it ruined warrior classes for a while, I played mage and stealth after that. Hardly any of my characters get past lvl 25, very few get to see 35, and only one has made it passed 50. For me, as soon as the game gets easy in any way, it's time for a restart.

So I'm still curious as to why people actually play 'god' chars., I understand getting one kinda', but actually playing one is beyond me. People that actually have characters at lvl 80 for instance...what's the point? Most of the skills you have are at 100 and can't increase, when leveling up is over half the fun.

I stand behind Bethesda's decision, it's not a matter of what some people want to do, it's a matter of what no one wants to have happen unless they've earned it. TES has always rewarded exploration, I've said this on another thread, but I'll say it again: newbs need to go play Morrowind...better yet play Daggerfall...at least then you'd understand what TES is about.

I completely agree with this. If Bethesda really intended for people to get to level 100 so easily, then why not include a section during character creation where you can dial in any level of each skill or attribute, give yourself any weapon and armor, and start the game already invincible?

 

[Straumgald]

I completely agree with this. If Bethesda really intended for people to get to level 100 so easily, then why not include a section during character creation where you can dial in any level of each skill or attribute, give yourself any weapon and armor, and start the game already invincible?

Actually something along these lines could be quite enjoyable. By the time you get to use the high-end skills that you worked so hard for, the game is easymode anyway. I would like to start with say 10 perks and maybe slightly higher skill levels, so every character isn't a blank slate for 10 levels. Obviously would have to scale enemy toughness up a bit. Seems kind of lame that you're a completely unskilled citizen, who lived in those times and had NOTHING to offer?
Sure you get captured and have no gear, but then you can go to your old house and grab your pre-determined kit.

Smithing isn't what makes the game weak, its poor enemy scaling. Why have 81 levels when you're killing top tiered enemies (dragons, giants, deathlords, dragonpriests) in the mid 20s on master difficulty. It would be nice if they had enemies that were actually difficult enough to require the best gear and higher levels.