Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Until they found out that Ulfric went out with a whimper and not like a man. Then it will hurt his cause more than an execution would.

No it won't. The Coward Imperials gagged him so that he couldn't even speak on his own defense. How do we he wouldn't die fighting if hes lost his most crucial weapon. His Voice.

You are so far up Ulfric's butt you fail to see the truth. The surrender does not make him anything but weak. He is not a true Nord. Ysgramor and Talos would be ashamed of his actions.

Please. Ysgramor and Talos would be thankful finally fought and stood up for Nordic beliefs. Rather than take it in the ass from the Dominion.

 

[Jeremius]

You mean ruined. I've already explained why this would further his cause long-term.

And I stated why it would hurt more. He looks a like a martyr, true, but he looks like a weak martyr. Torygg was 10 times the Nord Ulfric will ever be, simply because he stood and fought, not surrendered like a fool.

He didn't surrender Like a fool. IT ADVANCES HIS PLOT IN THE WAR IF HE DIES BY EXECUTION. He looks weak if he fought and lost. He looks deprived if hes executed without a trial. Then The Nords would see that Ulfric was not given a right to speak, and, more would join his cause. What about this are you not getting. Torygg was a fool. He was given a chance and he didn't take it.

You mean he was given a chance to look weak and chose to fight like a man instead, more than I can say for Ulfric, who surrendered for his own agenda than for the rights of the people. Stormcloaks=blind force for Ulfric's ambitions.

Ulfric chose the Easy way out, not the Nord way out.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

And I stated why it would hurt more. He looks a like a martyr, true, but he looks like a weak martyr. Torygg was 10 times the Nord Ulfric will ever be, simply because he stood and fought, not surrendered like a fool.

He didn't surrender Like a fool. IT ADVANCES HIS PLOT IN THE WAR IF HE DIES BY EXECUTION. He looks weak if he fought and lost. He looks deprived if hes executed without a trial. Then The Nords would see that Ulfric was not given a right to speak, and, more would join his cause. What about this are you not getting. Torygg was a fool. He was given a chance and he didn't take it.

You mean he was given a chance to look weak and chose to fight like a man instead, more than I can say for Ulfric, who surrendered for his own agenda than for the rights of the people. Stormcloaks=blind force for Ulfric's ambitions.

Ulfric chose the Easy way out, not the Nord way out.

Ulfric chose the way out that was more Strategic. Not only is Ulfric an excellent Warrior he also possesses the Thu'um "The Ancient Nord Art". Torygg also respected Ulfric but wasn't willing enough to secede from The Empire. He had plenty of time to think it over, and he chose the bitch way. and so he died like a bitch.

 

[Jeremius]

He didn't surrender Like a fool. IT ADVANCES HIS PLOT IN THE WAR IF HE DIES BY EXECUTION. He looks weak if he fought and lost. He looks deprived if hes executed without a trial. Then The Nords would see that Ulfric was not given a right to speak, and, more would join his cause. What about this are you not getting. Torygg was a fool. He was given a chance and he didn't take it.

You mean he was given a chance to look weak and chose to fight like a man instead, more than I can say for Ulfric, who surrendered for his own agenda than for the rights of the people. Stormcloaks=blind force for Ulfric's ambitions.

Ulfric chose the Easy way out, not the Nord way out.

Ulfric chose the way out that was more Strategic. Not only is Ulfric an excellent Warrior he also possesses the Thu'um "The Ancient Nord Art". Torygg also respected Ulfric but wasn't willing enough to secede from The Empire. He had plenty of time to think it over, and he chose the bitch way. and so he died like a bitch.

Torygg chose to die like a warrior. Ulfric chose to surrender because he feared dying in the woods where there can be no song about him. Cowardly, vain, Non-Nord Jarl.

 

[Vatonage]

Torygg chose to die like a warrior. Ulfric chose to surrender because he feared dying in the woods where there can be no song about him. Cowardly, vain, Non-Nord Jarl.

Look who's still alive.

 

[Jeremius]

Torygg chose to die like a warrior. Ulfric chose to surrender because he feared dying in the woods where there can be no song about him. Cowardly, vain, Non-Nord Jarl.

Look who's still alive.

the coward/man looking to be a folk song hero? The man who died did so because he was not a coward, but a true nord in more sense of the word than Ulfric will ever be.

 

[Vatonage]

the coward/man looking to be a folk song hero? The man who died did so because he was not a coward, but a true nord in more sense of the word than Ulfric will ever be.

Torygg's dead, Ulfric is alive to fight, would you rather die for no change and a false sense of True Nordship, a fool's goal, or live and achieve more, a wise man's thinking?

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

You mean he was given a chance to look weak and chose to fight like a man instead, more than I can say for Ulfric, who surrendered for his own agenda than for the rights of the people. Stormcloaks=blind force for Ulfric's ambitions.

Ulfric chose the Easy way out, not the Nord way out.

Ulfric chose the way out that was more Strategic. Not only is Ulfric an excellent Warrior he also possesses the Thu'um "The Ancient Nord Art". Torygg also respected Ulfric but wasn't willing enough to secede from The Empire. He had plenty of time to think it over, and he chose the bitch way. and so he died like a bitch.

Torygg chose to die like a warrior. Ulfric chose to surrender because he feared dying in the woods where there can be no song about him. Cowardly, vain, Non-Nord Jarl.

You can have your opinion but the fact remains: Hes no coward. He knew he would die. Why not die in a smarter, more tactical way. One where more people take up arms for your side. I still think there would be Nords cheering Ulfrics great deeds and remorsefully remembering his death in the forest, so I think the whole martyr thing is out of the picture. As a matter of fact if he wanted to die a martyr he would have chosen to die fighting in the forest. Also, Torygg could have sided with Ulfric but chose the Empire and his coin. Look where he is now. And If I recall General Tulius gave up while Ulfric defended Ysgramor's Palace with honor. WHAT A COWARD ULFRIC IS!!!

 

[Raijin]

Ulfric wouldn't listen to the Empire, he hates them with a passion. You're just assuming Ulfric would lay down his arms when hearing this, except when he is informed of that information that could "End the war"... He executes Tullius, and still wants you to hunt down the last of the Legionnaires. So much for enemy of my enemy...

Why should it be Tullius' fault that Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are too ignorant to understand the large picture.

Too busy doing this, than looking at the whole situation:

The Thalmor will always remain ten steps ahead of you.

You're just assuming that Ulfric would still continue his rapid war in full rage against the Empire even after Tullius provides him this piece of information. Ulfric is not stupid. He is a war veteran and knows a thing or two. In fact Ulfric didn't even declare war against the Empire. He just wants to drive out any imperial influence that is in his country.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x0005b41d

Galmar: When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x001039b5

Ufric: If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x001039b6
Ulfric: We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's visiting! The goddamned Emperor! And, as much as I'd like to kill the man myself, we can't risk an all out war with the Empire. We'll bide our time for now...


As you tell me
"Why should it be Tullius' fault that Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are too ignorant to understand the large picture."

I'm asking you this..
Why should it be Ulfrics fault that Tullius and the Imperial legion are too ignorant to realize that they're a pawn of the Thalmor? You have information there there indicating that the Thalmor are up to no good, and yet still pisses away resources and good men to fight this war? Tullius is a warmonger who claims to have diplomatic skills, yet fails to provide such skill.

So the next time you Imperials want to bring up the Thalmor dossier to accused Ulfric of being the thalmors favorite pet, Just remember what your General said as he pleas for his life

Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

You mean he was given a chance to look weak and chose to fight like a man instead, more than I can say for Ulfric, who surrendered for his own agenda than for the rights of the people. Stormcloaks=blind force for Ulfric's ambitions.

Ulfric chose the Easy way out, not the Nord way out.

Ulfric chose the way out that was more Strategic. Not only is Ulfric an excellent Warrior he also possesses the Thu'um "The Ancient Nord Art". Torygg also respected Ulfric but wasn't willing enough to secede from The Empire. He had plenty of time to think it over, and he chose the bitch way. and so he died like a bitch.

Torygg chose to die like a warrior. Ulfric chose to surrender because he feared dying in the woods where there can be no song about him. Cowardly, vain, Non-Nord Jarl.

Getting nearly shouted to death is not dying like a warrior.

 

[Raijin]

Torygg chose to die like a warrior. Ulfric chose to surrender because he feared dying in the woods where there can be no song about him. Cowardly, vain, Non-Nord Jarl.

Torygg was no warrior. He doesn't have enough combat experience to become one.

 

[Jeremius]

Torygg chose to die like a warrior. Ulfric chose to surrender because he feared dying in the woods where there can be no song about him. Cowardly, vain, Non-Nord Jarl.

Torygg was no warrior. He doesn't have enough combat experience to become one.

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

 

[Vatonage]

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

A.K.A The smart way. Seriously, Torygg died, Ulfric lived to enforce his policies. Had Torygg lived the High Throne wouldn't be kingless, therefore he failed Skyrim and her people.

 

[Jeremius]

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

A.K.A The smart way. Seriously, Torygg died, Ulfric lived to enforce his policies. Had Torygg lived the High Throne wouldn't be kingless, therefore he failed Skyrim and her people.

Only by standards placed on him by someone wanting it for himself.

 

[Vatonage]

Only by standards placed on him by someone wanting it for himself.

Well, a dead man tells no tales.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Torygg chose to die like a warrior. Ulfric chose to surrender because he feared dying in the woods where there can be no song about him. Cowardly, vain, Non-Nord Jarl.

Torygg was no warrior. He doesn't have enough combat experience to become one.

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

Also just because you surrender, doesn't mean its cowardly. I've stated many times that there were Strategic reasons as to WHY Ulfric chose what he chose. How are you not understanding this?The man's a Genius Tactician and Strategist and not to mention a great Warrior. I suppose Titus Mede II is cowardly for signing the WGC yes? I mean if we are using your "logic".

 

[Jeremius]

Torygg was no warrior. He doesn't have enough combat experience to become one.

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

Also just because you surrender, doesn't mean its cowardly. I've stated many times that there were Strategic reasons as to WHY Ulfric chose what he chose. How are you not understanding this?The man's a Genius Tactician and Strategist and not to mention a great Warrior. I suppose Titus Mede II is cowardly for signing the WGC yes? I mean if we are using your "logic".

Being a true Nord means fighting when you know you are going to lose. Ulfric did not do that. Therefore, he is absolutely not a true Nord, and thus a coward/

 

[Vatonage]

Being a true Nord means fighting when you know you are going to lose. Ulfric did not do that. Therefore, he is absolutely not a true Nord, and thus a coward/

How do you know true Nordic values, Imperial?!!

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Whether or not he has the skill means nothing if you chose to die standing up for your beliefs, rather than surrender to the enemy who you should know will NEVER give traitors a fair trial.

Ulfric had the same options he gave Torygg, and while Torygg died a Nord, Ulfric chose the cowardly, easy way out and surrendered.

A.K.A The smart way. Seriously, Torygg died, Ulfric lived to enforce his policies. Had Torygg lived the High Throne wouldn't be kingless, therefore he failed Skyrim and her people.

Only by standards placed on him by someone wanting it for himself.

Oh your one of THOSE people. Ugghh. Look it's obvious Ulfric wants the Throne. That's one of the reasons he's fighting. He believes he's the right guy for the job after the Empire leaves, So do I, personally. However, He fights for more than just the Throne. He could probably garner enough supporters for him to take Skyrim by force if this is, indeed, the only thing he wants. But, it's not. Ulfric wants
1.) The Reinstatement of Talos Worship.
2.) The Thalmor OUT of Skyrim.
3.) The Throne.

 

[Jeremius]

Being a true Nord means fighting when you know you are going to lose. Ulfric did not do that. Therefore, he is absolutely not a true Nord, and thus a coward/

How do you know true Nordic values, Imperial?!!

I am neither an Imperial nor a Nord. A true Nord does not Surrender. Did Ysgarmor Surrender to the snow elves? Did Talos surender to the first Aldmeri Dominion? If not, then Ulfric surrendering to the Empire is not the sign of a true Nord. Ulfric surrendered for his beliefs, while Torygg died for his.