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Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
Docta Corvina
Well-Known Member
So many questions related to the civil war and its consequences, it's unreal. And perhaps partly purposeful on the part of Bethesda, in my opinion. I think arguments for the Stormcloaks being a straight up personality cult can cut both ways, really. It's obvious many people are drawn to Ulfric's charisma, and fight because they think he'd make the best leader of Skyrim and that he alone is most likely to rout the Dominion if/when the time comes. I also think that there are Nords that fight with some real reservations about Ulfric as a person (ie. Ralof), but do so on behalf of the greater cause.
The problem is, the game's timespan doesn't extend far enough into the future to know for certain what the Stormcloak presence post-Ulfric will be (say, in the event of Imperial victory). Yeah, in-game time passes, but it's not reflected in any real-world, tangible way. For instance, we never see the Moot meet to decide a new High King, nor do we see the breadth of a response from Cyrodiil in the wake of a Stormcloak victory. We can't know how many hardcore Stormcloaks will remain in the months and years following their leader's death - if many do at all. There are a lot of variables and unknowns, and a lack of observable consequences that really makes the civil war - though fun in some ways - a bit of a disappointing questline. For something with so much potential and momentous possibilities, it really wasn't delivered in the way I'd have expected. It's a shame.
The problem is, the game's timespan doesn't extend far enough into the future to know for certain what the Stormcloak presence post-Ulfric will be (say, in the event of Imperial victory). Yeah, in-game time passes, but it's not reflected in any real-world, tangible way. For instance, we never see the Moot meet to decide a new High King, nor do we see the breadth of a response from Cyrodiil in the wake of a Stormcloak victory. We can't know how many hardcore Stormcloaks will remain in the months and years following their leader's death - if many do at all. There are a lot of variables and unknowns, and a lack of observable consequences that really makes the civil war - though fun in some ways - a bit of a disappointing questline. For something with so much potential and momentous possibilities, it really wasn't delivered in the way I'd have expected. It's a shame.
Ozan
the Magnificent Bastard
You've admitted yourself that the Aldmeri Dominion never touched Skyrim during the Great War... Interesting. We both can agree that Hammerfell has, however. Let me copy and paste this little tid-bit...
" The Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai was a treaty signed in 4E 180
between the Aldmeri Dominion
and the Redguards
of Hammerfell
. It marked the end of a decade-long attempt by the Dominion to conquer the region after both sides had reached a stalemate. The conditions of the treaty compelled the Dominion to withdraw all of its military forces from Hammerfell.
Critics of Emperor Titus Mede II
's acquiescence to the White-Gold Concordat
that ended the Great War
five years earlier took the Redguards' successful resistance as proof that the Aldmeri Dominion and theThalmor
could have been defeated. Hammerfell's relations with the Empire
remained strained after the treaty despite their mutual opposition to the Aldmeri Dominion. The Redguards believed that they had been betrayed when Titus II first agreed to the White-Gold Concordat, which stipulated that a significant portion of Hammerfell be ceded to the Dominion, then renounced Hammerfell as an Imperial province when it protested the Concordat's terms. Following the Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai, Hammerfell was left an independent yet severely diminished nation."
Three things you have to notice. The view of BETRAYAL, standing alone against the Aldmeri, Nd severely diminished but independent.
The Redguards were able to keep fighting because they didn't bend to the will of the Empire who ceded their land to the elves. It says critics often point out that if Hammerfell could fight them by themselves, imagine how'd it go with the rest of the empire. Hammerfell would be far better off if the Empire maintained the fight and would still be part of the Empire. Throughout this thread, you've defended Mede. But this is a recurring theme. When something bad happens, the Empire which united nations forgets of those nations so quickly.
We've touched this topic in Morrowind, we're reviewing it now in Hammerfell, and its a possibility for Skyrim. If the send three guys to Cyrodiil and a full army to Skyrim, Skyrim will be on their own.
So... Why be part of an Empire when you're more than likely to be used as a buffer zone in case Cyrodiil is at risk?
All men are equal in the eyes of the Empire. No greater lie has ever been told.))
" The Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai was a treaty signed in 4E 180
between the Aldmeri Dominion
and the Redguards
of Hammerfell
. It marked the end of a decade-long attempt by the Dominion to conquer the region after both sides had reached a stalemate. The conditions of the treaty compelled the Dominion to withdraw all of its military forces from Hammerfell.
Critics of Emperor Titus Mede II
's acquiescence to the White-Gold Concordat
that ended the Great War
five years earlier took the Redguards' successful resistance as proof that the Aldmeri Dominion and theThalmor
could have been defeated. Hammerfell's relations with the Empire
remained strained after the treaty despite their mutual opposition to the Aldmeri Dominion. The Redguards believed that they had been betrayed when Titus II first agreed to the White-Gold Concordat, which stipulated that a significant portion of Hammerfell be ceded to the Dominion, then renounced Hammerfell as an Imperial province when it protested the Concordat's terms. Following the Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai, Hammerfell was left an independent yet severely diminished nation."
Three things you have to notice. The view of BETRAYAL, standing alone against the Aldmeri, Nd severely diminished but independent.
The Redguards were able to keep fighting because they didn't bend to the will of the Empire who ceded their land to the elves. It says critics often point out that if Hammerfell could fight them by themselves, imagine how'd it go with the rest of the empire. Hammerfell would be far better off if the Empire maintained the fight and would still be part of the Empire. Throughout this thread, you've defended Mede. But this is a recurring theme. When something bad happens, the Empire which united nations forgets of those nations so quickly.
We've touched this topic in Morrowind, we're reviewing it now in Hammerfell, and its a possibility for Skyrim. If the send three guys to Cyrodiil and a full army to Skyrim, Skyrim will be on their own.
So... Why be part of an Empire when you're more than likely to be used as a buffer zone in case Cyrodiil is at risk?
All men are equal in the eyes of the Empire. No greater lie has ever been told.))
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
As a Stormcloak supporter I'm not just drawn to Ulfric because of his charisma. I can relate to what hes fighting for, and that is for freedom, which I take extremely serious. Even the Empire supporters must admit that the Empire isn't as strong as it use to be, and as a result from their weakness people suffer. The Empire was force (from their own weakness and due to a stubborn Emperor who refused to listen to his General) to sign a treaty to ban the worship of Talos and to essentially allow the Aldmeri Dominion to slaughter the remanding members of the Blades. To this day I cannot understand this logic. What did the Blades ever do to cause this genocide from the High elves of Summerset isle? They were once loyal to the Empire now are treated like total trash. I simply do not have time to read every single lore thats out there on the Elders Scrolls, but as of now I find that far worst then what Ulfric Stormcloak is doing to his Dunmer and Argonian citizens in Windhelm.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Skyrim was affected by the Great War, they had lost the Markarth for two years I believe, the lack of any fighting soldiers left all of the provinces affected, even High Rock.
In early 4E 173, a Forebear army from Sentinel broke the siege of Hegathe (a Crown city), leading to the reconciliation of the two factions. Despite this, Lady Arannelya's main army succeeded in crossing the Alik'r Desert. The Imperial Legions under General Decianus met them outside Skaven in a bloody and indecisive clash. Decianus withdrew and left Arannelya in possession of Skaven, but the Aldmeri were too weakened to continue their advance.
In Hammerfell, General Decianus was preparing to drive the Aldmeri back from Skaven when he was ordered to march for Cyrodiil. Unwilling to abandon Hammerfell completely, he allowed a great number of "invalids" to be discharged from the Legions before they marched east. These veterans formed the core of the army that eventually drove Lady Arannelya's forces back across the Alik'r late in 174, taking heavy losses on their retreat from harassing attacks by the Alik'r warriors.
In the end, the heroic Redguards fought the Aldmeri Dominion to a standstill, although the war lasted for five more years and left southern Hammerfell devastated.
But the Redguards should not forget the great sacrifice of Imperial blood - Breton, Nord, and Cyrodilic - at the Battle of the Red Ring that weakened the Dominion enough to allow the eventual Second Treaty of Stros M'kai in 4E 180 and the withdrawal of Aldmeri forces from Hammerfell.
The Empire was unable to continue fighting, what you fail to realize is that what the Redguards did in Hammerfell is exactly what the Empire did. They fought the Dominion, got a peace treaty. Redguards fighting a WEAKENED Aldmeri Dominion in their homeland, with Redguards being considered some of the most talented warriors in Tamriel?
The Empire was simply unable to take the war to the Aldmeri Dominion, to invade their lands, after the Battle of the Red Ring the Empire didn't even have enough soldiers to properly defend their lands for many years.
Wayrest was lost in High Rock to Corsairs, Bravil erupted into violence. You have dangerous creatures, bandits praying on the provinces. The Empire barely could maintain order in the years after the Great War ended and you think they should of fought on? The Aldmeri Dominion could of kept hitting the Empire in border skirmishes for the next thousand years while the Empire struggles to deal with bandits, creatures, pirates etc. What are you going to do? What kind of strategy would you propose, you don't have enough soldiers to even maintain order in Cyrodiil, but you're going to invade the Dominion and keep fighting?
There is a great difference to Skyrim and Hammerfell. Saying Hammerfell being independent means Skyrim can, doesn't work like that. Hammerfell made it's choice when it refused the treaty. The Kings and Queens of High Rock agreed to the WGC, the High King of Skyrim agreed to the WGC, the Elder Council, the Emperor and the Empire for nearly thirty years agreed to the WGC.
The terms were harsh, but Titus II believed that it was necessary to secure peace and give the Empire a chance to regain its strength.
However, there is a great difference between agreeing to such terms under the mere threat of war, and agreeing to them at the end of a long and destructive war. No part of the Empire would have accepted these terms in 4E 171, dictated by the Thalmor at swords-point. Titus II would have faced civil war. By 4E 175, most of the Empire welcomed peace at almost any price.
"But to answer your question, the White-Gold Concordat was the fancy name they put on the peace treaty between the Empire and the Thalmor. It ended the war and saved the Empire to fight another day." - Delphine
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Stubborn Emperor, not listening to his General? Are you telling me you're using the fact the Empire fought against the Dominion as an argument against them? I'm sure if Titus Mede II had simply rolled over and given into their demands you would be a full fledged Imperial supporter, loyal to General Tullius, picking up the Imperial banner going "Which way boss?"
There wouldn't be an Empire if the terms were accepted in 4E 171, would of been Civil war all across the Imperium.
The Blades fought a secret war within the Aldmeri Dominion, gave them problems.
Background: Delphine was a high-priority target during the First War, for both operational and political reasons. She was directly involved in several of the most damaging operations carried out by the Blades within the Dominion. - Thalmor Dossier
The Blades were loyal to the dragonblood, they weren't an arm of the Imperial Government, their loyalty was to that of the Septim Bloodline.
HateTrolls
New Member
alright, well I've heard a lot of good points from both sides. also heard a lot of people who side with the rebels just because of the chopping block incident in the beginning. not even getting in depth about whats happened. i sided with the imperials, and i am a nord btw.. only because ive read all the books i could get my hands on in the game. skillbooks, random reads for interest.. you name it. call me the librarian haha. but have you ever read the bear of markarth? sure the forsworn overthrew the legion. and then when ulfric helped win it mack they arrested them. but ONLY because the thalmor are on everyones arse about talos. they had a chance to catch him, and regrettably it was arrest them or start ANOTHER great war. the empire may be somewhat corrupt.. but thats not its fault. after a heavy loss during the great war jarls like that whore in riften took advantage of the weakened empire. ulfric is fed bull crap every 5 seconds from galmar baby-fist.. I've done both quest lines and ultimately empire has the better morals. they arent rasict and dont go for civillians right after killing imperial soldiers. and no more crap about our characters committing some horrible crime to be put to death by headsmen.. it clearly says you were just caught in the middle of the ambush, along with the rebels.
Mookie
Active Member
?HateTrolls
New Member
when ulfric retook markarth for the current jarl there, igmund, he wasnt fighting imperials.. he was fighting forsworn. basically the native americans of skyrim, also known as reachman. some are breton, some are nord. its creepy the worship hagravens but anyway ulfric basically went in killed the forsworn, then everyone else left in the city. ulfric doesnt trust EVERY nord in skyrim, just the ones under his service. not to mention the fact everyone was getting away with worshipping anyway.. until ulfric started crying. then the elves started cracking down on the nords. his morals are limited to those he trusts, while the empire seeks true equality.. not to mention the empire at least has the balls to lay down there pride for peace. i was at those negotiations in high hrothgar. ulfric wanted 2 citys in exchange for riften. i would rather eat nasty skeever hide for a week than let him screw us all over.
Mookie
Active Member
when ulfric retook markarth for the current jarl there, igmund, he wasnt fighting imperials.. he was fighting forsworn. basically the native americans of skyrim, also known as reachman. some are breton, some are nord. its creepy the worship hagravens but anyway ulfric basically went in killed the forsworn, then everyone else left in the city. ulfric doesnt trust EVERY nord in skyrim, just the ones under his service. not to mention the fact everyone was getting away with worshipping anyway.. until ulfric started crying. then the elves started cracking down on the nords. his morals are limited to those he trusts, while the empire seeks true equality.. not to mention the empire at least has the balls to lay down there pride for peace. i was at those negotiations in high hrothgar. ulfric wanted 2 citys in exchange for riften. i would rather eat nasty skeever hide for a week than let him screw us all over.
We allready went over that before, he clearly didnt kill everyone since there are LIVING humans inhabiting that place.
With more than half Markarth being bretons.
Nords were the first humans to inhabit Tamriel - some lore book, cant remember the name, so Nords are natives.
He doesnt trust... I don see Al Qaida simpathisers in the presidents advisory board. So I fail to see your point, unless you are saying that in the times of war a leader should welcome enemy simpathisers into his inner circle?
Also, worshiping in secret and being free to worship isnt the same thing and I would make a fuss about that too.
I have my land and I want to worship any God I want in MY way. Only reason for outlawing a religion could be human sacrifice requirement to worship.
As for cities one requires, if you joined and went trough with Stormcloaks Ulfric will also require 2 cities, if on loosing side.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
4E 171 - 4E 175
The Aldmeri Dominion invaded the Empire of Tamriel after Emperor Titus Mede II rejected an ultimatum presented by a Thalmor ambassador. The Aldmeri forces caught the Empire by surprise and apparently had far better success than planned. Their success apparently encouraged them to go beyond the aim of conquering Hammerfell, and instead they decided to conquer the entire Empire. The Aldmeri advance culminated in the Sack of the Imperial City, which was under occupation for nearly a year before its liberation in the Battle of the Red Ring. The war ends with the signing of the White-Gold Concordat.
When Titus Mede II ascended the throne in 4E 168, he inherited a weakened empire. The glory days of the Septims were a distant memory. Valenwood and Elsweyr were gone, ceded to the Thalmor enemy. Black Marsh had been lost to Imperial rule since the aftermath of the Oblivion Crisis. Morrowind had never recovered fully from the eruption of Mount Vvardenfell. Hammerfell was plagued by infighting between Crowns and Forebears. Only High Rock, Cyrodiil and Skyrim remained prosperous and peaceful.
Emperor Titus Mede had only a few short years to consolidate his rule before his leadership was put to the ultimate test.
The War Begins
On the 30th of Frostfall, 4E 171, the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with a gift in a covered cart and an ultimatum for the new Emperor. The long list of demands included staggering tributes, disbandment of the Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion. Despite the warnings of his generals of the Empire's military weakness, Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum. The Thalmor ambassador upended the cart, spilling over a hundred heads on the floor: every Blades agent in Summerset and Valenwood. And so began the Great War which would consume the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion for the next five years.
Battle of the Red Ring, 4E 175. Titus II split his remaining forces into three hosts that surrounded the occupied Imperial City. After a long, bloody battle, the Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was utterly destroyed and the Imperial City recaptured. Lord Naarifin was hung from the top of White-Gold Tower and kept alive for thirty-three days. Despite the resounding victory, Titus II realized the Empire was too exhausted to continue fighting. He negotiated with the Thalmor and signed the White-Gold Concordat, a treaty that gave the Thalmor free reign to stamp out the worship of Talos in Tamriel, disbanded the Blades, and ceded a large part of southern Hammerfell to the Aldmeri Dominion. Critics note that the terms of the Concordat are almost identical to those of the original ultimatum presented by the Thalmor prior to the war.
The green color font was the only positive thing that came out of the Great war that the Emperor actually help start up. The rest was utterly pointless. So yeah when I read these juicy lores reminds me of how pathetic this warmongering Emperor truly is. This man was suppose to be highly intelligent but his decisions proves otherwise. It also reminds me just how pathetic Legate Rikke is when she says stupid stuffs like:
Rikke: "This is what you wanted? Shield brothers and sisters killing each other? Families torn apart? This is the Skyrim you want?!"
Does she even know the history of her own Empire? Or was she hit in the head too many times that she simply forgot?
Granted Ulfric Stormcloak caused the Civil war, but Emperor Titus Mede II provoked the GREAT war which lead the the deaths of far more soldiers and citizens because he decided to not heed to what his Generals were telling him at the time.
At the end the Aldmeri Dominion got what they originally wanted... probably even more thanks to Titus II error of challenging them to a duel.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Although victorious, the Imperial armies were in no shape to continue the war. The entire remaining Imperial force was gathered in Cyrodiil, exhausted and decimated by the Battle of the Red Ring. Not a single legion had more than half its soldiers fit for duty. Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City the previous year. Titus II knew that there would be no better time to negotiate peace, and late in 4E 175 the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion signed the White-Gold Concordat, ending the Great War.
The terms were harsh, but Titus II believed that it was necessary to secure peace and give the Empire a chance to regain its strength. The two most controversial terms of the Concordat were the banning of the worship of Talos and the cession of a large section of southern Hammerfell (most of what was already occupied by Aldmeri forces). Critics have pointed out that the Concordat is ALMOST identical to the ultimatum the Emperor rejected five years earlier. However, there is a great difference between agreeing to such terms under the mere threat of war, and agreeing to them at the end of a long and destructive war. No part of the Empire would have accepted these terms in 4E 171, dictated by the Thalmor at swords-point. Titus II would have faced civil war. By 4E 175, most of the Empire welcomed peace at almost any price.
There wouldn't be an Empire had the terms been accepted in 4E 171, there would of been Civil War all across the Empire as the provinces rebelled and destroyed themselves. Thousands of innocents would of died in these Civil wars, not to defend their homes from invasion against the Aldmeri Dominion. I'm sure you would love Titus Mede II had he rolled over right? Had he given into their demands and let the Empire destroy itself for the Thalmor. No you wouldn't support the Empire then, you have gone on many times how weak and cowardly the Empire is for not continuing the war, and now you contradict yourself by saying how bad the Empire is for fighting in the first place.
Because they fought against the Aldmeri Dominion, the Empire is bad. Because they went for peace after a destructive war, the Empire is bad. What is next? It's raining outside... the Empire's bad.
Mr.Self Destruct
Chosen Undead
Regardless of what you say, Titus Mede II has proven himself as a competent and capable leader. The reason he's the subject of much flak is because he was dealt a bad hand from the beginning, and that despite his best efforts he lacked the resources and preparation the Thalmor had. Yet despite the fact he was fighting against an enemy that had spent nearly a century likely plotting the fall of the Empire, Mede's wit and intelligence would lead to the Empire inflicting the damage it did.
And another thing, your claim that Mede not listening to his generals is a sign of incompetence was proven wrong by the fact that listening to his generals during the sacking of the Imperial City and not abandoning the city would've likely wiped out what men he had left, and the successes of the Battle of the Red Ring would've never happened.
Retreating with the main force, Titus would link up with reinforcements which would make up the bulk of the assault.
This pretty much says it all, the Emperor managed to wipe out the Thalmor forces in Cyrodiil and capture their leader with what was left of the Imperial legions. Say what you will about the man, how you disagree with his choices or see him as an enemy, but the fact is that his military prowess and intellect definitely warrants respect as an adversary and leader.
Titus Mede II didn't provoke the Great War, the Thalmor did. Everything points to the fact that they were prepared to storm Cyrodiil regardless of the Emperor's answer, they had entire armies hidden in the surrounding provinces and arrived with a cart filled with the heads of every Blade stationed in the Dominion.
What Titus Mede II did was make the best of the hand he had been dealt.
So you suggested that the Empire laid down and accepted its fate? That they simply gave up without a fight? Do you understand that you're backing a man who believes the Empire are cowards for signing the Concordant? That even after all the loss and destruction, Titus Mede II is a spineless tyrant for giving up? You've contradicted many of your arguments here, for the better part of the year you've insisted that the Empire was weak for signing the concordant after the war, but now you see it as an error to fight back? That the Empire should have agreed to the terms before any destruction and death?
I thought Nords valued honor? What honor is there to be found in giving up under the threat of war?
Furthermore I'll have to take any arguments you have on things like honor and never giving up with a grain of salt seeing as how you've never responded to the fact that Ulfric gave up himself and his men to Tulius in the beginning of the game knowing that they'd all be executed.
Mr.Self Destruct
Chosen Undead
He killed anybody that didn't fight for him during the siege, and he tortured women to find the Forsworn who had fled from Markarth.
From The Bear of Markarth
"...What happened during that battle was war, but what happened after the battle was over is nothing short of war crimes.
Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered. Native women were tortured to give up names of Forsworn fighters who had fled the city or were in the hills of the Reach. Anyone who lived in the city, Forsworn and Nord alike, were executed if they had not fought with Ulfric and his men when they breached the gates. "You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips as he ordered the deaths of shopkeepers, farmers, the elderly, and any child old enough to lift a sword that had failed in the call to fight with him."
Uh.. what?
Just because you settle an area does not make you the native inhabitants of such a place, the Vikings were the first to settle North America, does that mean they are the real Native Americans?
Benthos
Proud Mer
Aside from all I said before and all the posts I have agreed with, I will at least say when it comes to either side, due to my love for Greek and Roman history and mythology, I would enjoy siding with the Imperials just for that reason (again, other than my earlier posts in this thread).
High King of Skyrim
King of the barbarian horde
Rikke: "This is what you wanted? Shield brothers and sisters killing each other? Families torn apart? This is the Skyrim you want?!"
Does she even know the history of her own Empire? Or was she hit in the head too many times that she simply forgot?
What exactly is it that you believe Rikke has forgotten?
Granted Ulfric Stormcloak caused the Civil war, but Emperor Titus Mede II provoked the GREAT war which lead the the deaths of far more soldiers and citizens because he decided to not heed to what his Generals were telling him at the time.
Titus Mede had no other choice but to act:On the 30th of Frostfall, 4E 171, the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with a gift in a covered cart and an ultimatum for the new Emperor. The long list of demands included staggering tributes, disbandment of the Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion. Despite the warnings of his generals of the Empire's military weakness, Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum. The Thalmor ambassador upended the cart, spilling over a hundred heads on the floor: every Blades agent in Summerset and Valenwood. And so began the Great War which would consume the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion for the next five years.
What kind of leader would have just agreed to this rubbish. Imagine the leader of your country just bending over and taking it from some ambassador of a foreign land. What would you honestly think of him then? These demands were rubbish and you know it. Not to mention the fallout it would have created with his own people.
Does she even know the history of her own Empire? Or was she hit in the head too many times that she simply forgot?
What exactly is it that you believe Rikke has forgotten?
Granted Ulfric Stormcloak caused the Civil war, but Emperor Titus Mede II provoked the GREAT war which lead the the deaths of far more soldiers and citizens because he decided to not heed to what his Generals were telling him at the time.
Titus Mede had no other choice but to act:On the 30th of Frostfall, 4E 171, the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with a gift in a covered cart and an ultimatum for the new Emperor. The long list of demands included staggering tributes, disbandment of the Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion. Despite the warnings of his generals of the Empire's military weakness, Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum. The Thalmor ambassador upended the cart, spilling over a hundred heads on the floor: every Blades agent in Summerset and Valenwood. And so began the Great War which would consume the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion for the next five years.
What kind of leader would have just agreed to this rubbish. Imagine the leader of your country just bending over and taking it from some ambassador of a foreign land. What would you honestly think of him then? These demands were rubbish and you know it. Not to mention the fallout it would have created with his own people.
elena
New Member
I have not chosen yet with any of my 3 characters, but given the fact that the 3 of them are races despised by the nords (an orc, a khajiit and a high elf) i guess i will choose to join the imperials with all of them..maybe and just maybe i'll become a stormcloak with the orc, because she is a pure warrior and generally speaking the orcs and nords are kind of similar in that aspect (the way of life of blood, honor, war and strength) but with the other 2 it wouldn't make sense at all...
Mookie
Active Member
Bear of Markarth is a propaganda book on the same level with "Nords arise"
So I wouldnt take that seriously.
As I said once, if he killed everyone who didnt fight for him
A) there were nords in the city after the forsworn took it who couldnt fight for him
B) There are Bretons living in the city, the alchemist, workers etc..
As I said they are first humans to settle Tamriel. And last I checked Bretons were humans who mixed with elves.
Mookie
Active Member
I am sorry but he accepted them all.
That is what makes people furios.
The only really wrecked place was Cirodil, there were loads of untoched provinces, hammerfell was abandoned, etc...
Rimfaxe96
Well-Known Member
I've chosen to go with the Empire because only united will they stand a chance against the Dominion, and while I don't really feel any loyality for th Emperor or Cyrodiil, I feel enough hatred for the Thalmor to join those who might even stand a chance against them, which does not count for the Stormcloaks in my subjective view.
Thu'um or not, Ulfric can't win with a band of axe-swinging warriors against a nation of mages and masters of the arcane. After all he needs to get in reach to use his shout to even get an enemy killed, but he won't come very far if the Dominion's ships get them down. Who knows, if he'd go for Alinor he'd probably get stuck at the southern end of Cyrodiil or at Northern Valenwood, since the only proper "streets" there were made and are therefore well guarded by the Thalmor troops.
Skyrim is just too far away from Alinor to do some damage, and they can't just stay out of the fight anymore. Imperials and Nords are either together in this or the Aldmeri Dominion will have an easy time playing "Divide and Conquer", picking off the other nations one by one.
Though, I didn't like killing the Stormcloaks. Every soldier killed is a possible Legion member killed as well, just in the name of pride. No, it was not right to have Ulfric and his buddies thrown into prison for demanding their payment; open worship of Talos, but that was the Jarl's fault and the Empire had little choice due to the damned Concordat. But seriously? Even high ranking Legion members (Rikke, *cough cough) are clearly Talos worshippers, and that guy from Riverwood also said that before Ulfric everyone still had his little Talos shrine at home because the Thalmor weren't there to control them.
And then Ulfric started this rebellion. Sorry, but for me it appears that Ulfric too is responsible for every Nord who got abducted, tortured and killed by the Thalmor.
Fighting for your right is one thing, but provoking is just unnecessary. v.v
Thu'um or not, Ulfric can't win with a band of axe-swinging warriors against a nation of mages and masters of the arcane. After all he needs to get in reach to use his shout to even get an enemy killed, but he won't come very far if the Dominion's ships get them down. Who knows, if he'd go for Alinor he'd probably get stuck at the southern end of Cyrodiil or at Northern Valenwood, since the only proper "streets" there were made and are therefore well guarded by the Thalmor troops.
Skyrim is just too far away from Alinor to do some damage, and they can't just stay out of the fight anymore. Imperials and Nords are either together in this or the Aldmeri Dominion will have an easy time playing "Divide and Conquer", picking off the other nations one by one.
Though, I didn't like killing the Stormcloaks. Every soldier killed is a possible Legion member killed as well, just in the name of pride. No, it was not right to have Ulfric and his buddies thrown into prison for demanding their payment; open worship of Talos, but that was the Jarl's fault and the Empire had little choice due to the damned Concordat. But seriously? Even high ranking Legion members (Rikke, *cough cough) are clearly Talos worshippers, and that guy from Riverwood also said that before Ulfric everyone still had his little Talos shrine at home because the Thalmor weren't there to control them.
And then Ulfric started this rebellion. Sorry, but for me it appears that Ulfric too is responsible for every Nord who got abducted, tortured and killed by the Thalmor.
Fighting for your right is one thing, but provoking is just unnecessary. v.v