Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Ozan]

Stupid people are still people. Thus, stupidity is not a valid excuse for kidnapping and murder.))

Yes, you've posted this before. I remember because its usually one of your shorter posts by 30,000 words.

Tell me, if someone were stupid enough to break the law, depending on the law (say smoking pot), would you kidnap and execute them? Certainly, drugs are different than religion, but keep in mind that this gentleman persisted to piss off the Thalmor without fully understanding the consequences.

With your callous disregard for human life, you've made it obvious why you're an Imperial. A bard dies, so be it. A man opens a gate, he should die. A man or woman is standing around in the wrong spot, kill them too.

But if a single noble is harmed, sound the horns! Send in expert generals and get plops organised. My, how bourgeoisie.))

 

[DrunkenMage]

Stupid people are still people. Thus, stupidity is not a valid excuse for kidnapping and murder.))

Yes, you've posted this before. I remember because its usually one of your shorter posts by 30,000 words.

Tell me, if someone were stupid enough to break the law, depending on the law (say smoking pot), would you kidnap and execute them? Certainly, drugs are different than religion, but keep in mind that this gentleman persisted to piss off the Thalmor without fully understanding the consequences.

With your callous disregard for human life, you've made it obvious why you're an Imperial. A bard dies, so be it. A man opens a gate, he should die. A man or woman is standing around in the wrong spot, kill them too.

But if a single noble is harmed, sound the horns! Send in expert generals and get pl*** organised. My, how bourgeoisie.))

Smoking pot isn't a good analogy, the ban on Talos is considered more extreme, it was put into effect after a long and bloody war. Someone breaking the law, knowing they're breaking the law, not just any law, but a law that was put in place at the cost of thousands that died for peace. He wasn't able to swallow his stubborn pride and keep quiet.

Any person, be it bard or noble who breaks the law is expected to be punished. While it is harsh and sometimes hard to understand, the Ban on Talos wasn't something easily put into place. It took many years of warfare and destruction for it to happen.

A man opens a gate, he should die? Yes he should, he didn't simply open a gate. He was a guard in Solitude, he knew exactly what he was doing when he let Ulfric escape, watching the execution scene shows he knew what he was doing and would do it all over again, claiming Ulfric is in the right. He is by his actions accessory to High treason against the Empire, which the punishment for high treason is death. He was hardly an innocent who opened a gate randomly.

Sound the horns when a single Noble is harmed? Sending in expert Generals... Tullius arrived when Ulfric Stormcloak declared war against the western holds, plunged Skyrim into a war of succession and had the Nords in a Civil war which they haven't done since the First War of Succession.

So if you believe sending in a Military General to restore order when the province is ready to tear itself apart, with citizens who do not want to be under Ulfric's tyranny. Then you a strange moral compass.

You call the Empire oppressors, yet you fight for a tyrant. You claim you fight for the 'common folk' yet the very Legionaries you kill are common folk, nearly all of them locally recruited and are fighting to restore their homeland.

Your main arguments are based on the belief that everything is an Imperial lie. I find it interesting you're now using the Bard in your argument when not too long ago you were claiming it as propaganda. If you want to do your head canon, that is fine. But try to leave it out of arguments based on fact.

You yourself have made it clear to why you're a Stormcloak. You claim oppression while having no problems with the racial hatred, the racial segregation and the fact the Stormcloaks in the Reach plan to enslave the native population. You have used slavery as an argument and are now fighting for a group who will use slaves. As a Khajiit one would think you to be more sympathetic to the people of the Reach who are common folk, being put in chains and also being forbidden to worship their own Gods.

Stormcloaks cry victim yet they are the real oppressors. They demand free worship when the people of the Reach want the same. The people of the Reach took up arms against the Nords and they're called terrorists by some Stormcloak supporters. Yet when the Stormcloaks have taken up arms, they're a bloody hero?

Stormcloak Skyrim is oppression, your biased views towards your own Government can't keep you that blind forever. You go on about Nobles in the Empire, but the Stormcloaks go on about Skyrim for the Nords. While many do not understand the meaning, it is clear it is "Skyrim for Nords only" That is what they want, speak with the Free-Winter fellow in Windhelm, he'll explain to you what Skyrim for the Nords means.

It isn't about Skyrim should be ruled by Nords, because it already is and it has been since Ysgramor founded his city.

Many Stormcloak supporters in the thread claim to fight for tradition yet Ulfric makes a mockery of tradition, he abuses Nordic tradition. Nordic tradition that the Empire respected, the Pact of Chieftains means nothing under Ulfric Stormcloak, the way of the voice and the list goes on.

You also have Stormcloak supporters saying it is Galmar who is the bad one, not Ulfric. Galmar gets placed in charge of keeping the Jarls in line, making sure they follow Ulfric's orders.

You claim the Legion is an oppressive police state. Yet the opening scene they're aiding the "common folk" You got soldiers with the wounded trying to stop bleeding.

What was Ulfric's actions during a city attack? Execute everyone who didn't aid him. You didn't see the Legions executing children old enough to wield a sword that didn't pick one up in the name of the Emperor.

"With us or against us." True words of a non oppressive group...

I also hate to break it to you, but the Stormcloaks have nobles too. The Stormcloak supporting Jarls are their nobles and I'm sure you absolutely love them. You got one teaching his son to hate dark elves, you got another planning to enslave a native population, hell you even got one who is willing to sacrifice every man woman and child for a cause not of their own.

You fight for the common folk right?

Bulfrek: "Skald, if you don't mind sir, I have a request."
Skald: "You, have a request of me, Bulfrek? This should be interesting."
Bulfrek: "Well, I was thinking sir, with the war going on and all. Maybe, I could enlist? Fight the Imperials?"
Skald: "A servant? Enlisting in the Stormcloaks? Ah, Bulfrek, that's why I like having you about. You're always good for a laugh."

Yeah, you can certainly see how Stormcloak "Nobles" feel about the common folk.

 

[Raijin]

It would of cost the lives of thousands more had Titus II accepted the ultimatum, this is a foolish argument against the Empire and you know it. Had the Empire simply laid down arms and given Southern Hammerfell, banned the worship of Talos, paid staggering amounts of tribute to the Aldmeri Dominion as was asked in the Ultimatum. It would of been Civil war.

And you don't think by rejecting the ultimatum didn't cost the lives of thousands when the Great war started? If you don't think that you're being delusional. Are you telling me that the Civil war is far greater than the Great war?

I highly doubt that you, who goes on about the weakness of Imperials for surrendering, would suddenly pick up the banner had the Empire simply rolled over. Your argument is a contradiction to your entire belief. Ulfric Stormcloak is nothing, nothing like the Imperial Generals that advised Titus Mede of Military weakness, because Ulfric only cares about war. He and many of the Nords wanted more blood, even if it led to the total destruction of all the Legions in a suicide run into the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion.

I've already provided you evidence proving you wrong about Ulfric wanting blood. What you're essentially expressing now are weak opinions about Ulfric that isn't winning you any points in this debate.... And yes I would pick up the banner in the name of Titus Mede II had he done the right thing by listening to his Generals advice. The Empire was already in bad shape, and Mede II made it worst by pissing off the Thalmor, who happens to be much stabilized than the Empire at the time.

 

[DrunkenMage]

And you don't think by rejecting the ultimatum didn't cost the lives of thousands when the Great war started? If you don't think that you're being delusional. Are you telling me that the Civil war is far greater than the Great war?

Civil War - War against each other.
Great War - War against the invading Aldmeri Dominion.

Civil war is greater than the Great War, it would not be contained in Skyrim. The entire Empire would be up in arms as the provinces split and rebelled against Titus Mede II, the Legions would be fighting in the provinces and more than likely against other Legions with Generals wanting to make a claim for the throne.

Civil war is far worse when looking at the big picture. Something you seem to be lacking, your inability to understand the concept that the Aldmeri Dominion are going to attack anyway.

So you tell me what is worse? Total Civil war depleting your forces while a powerful enemy is on your doorstep ready to strike, they're going to strike one way or the other. So your strategical advice would be to hand the Empire to the Thalmor on a silver platter? Going "The Empire was weak to start with, but I think it would be tactically wise to make us even weaker and hope the Aldmeri Dominion doesn't simply swoop in on our depleted armies and destroyed cities.

Common sense and logic. Not in high supply on the Stormcloak side?

Civil war will always be worse, you're fighting yourself. Not the enemy.

I've already provided you evidence proving you wrong about Ulfric wanting blood. What you're essentially expressing now are weak opinions about Ulfric that isn't winning you any points in this debate.... And yes I would pick up the banner in the name of Titus Mede II had he done the right thing by listening to his Generals advice. The Empire was already in bad shape, and Mede II made it worst by pissing off the Thalmor, who happens to be much stabilized than the Empire at the time.

You proved me wrong about Ulfric wanting blood? Oh it must of been someone else who killed the High King and instigated a Civil War of the Nords. Turning shield brother and sister against each other in a bloody skirmish, friends against friends, fathers against sons. Oh of course not, Ulfric is a bloody Saint.

You would pick up a banner in the name of Titus Mede II had he given into the Thalmor Ultimatum, facing Civil wars as the provinces rebel, Cyrodiil itself may even split between Colovia West and Nibenese East. Better to fight fifty small wars that weaken the entire Empire, causing resources to be wasted, soldiers to be lost in petty skirmishes for every little war chief and mercenary leader with a few men at arms who decide they want a bigger slice of the cake that is the Empire.

While all of that is happening, lets just pray the Aldmeri Dominion armies that are sitting on Cyrodiil's border decide to go "Hey, they're even weaker than before. We could invade and take them all out easily... but we won't cause we're cool with Titus Mede II."

You always like bringing up one quote in the Great War book about Titus Mede's Generals advising of Military weakness, you should read this line carefully.
No part of the Empire would have accepted these terms in 4E 171, dictated by the Thalmor at swords-point. - The Great War

 

[Ozan]

Yes, you've posted this before. I remember because its usually one of your shorter posts by 30,000 words.

Tell me, if someone were stupid enough to break the law, depending on the law (say smoking pot), would you kidnap and execute them? Certainly, drugs are different than religion, but keep in mind that this gentleman persisted to piss off the Thalmor without fully understanding the consequences.

With your callous disregard for human life, you've made it obvious why you're an Imperial. A bard dies, so be it. A man opens a gate, he should die. A man or woman is standing around in the wrong spot, kill them too.

But if a single noble is harmed, sound the horns! Send in expert generals and get pl*** organised. My, how bourgeoisie.))

Smoking pot isn't a good analogy, the ban on Talos is considered more extreme, it was put into effect after a long and bloody war. Someone breaking the law, knowing they're breaking the law, not just any law, but a law that was put in place at the cost of thousands that died for peace. He wasn't able to swallow his stubborn pride and keep quiet.

Any person, be it bard or noble who breaks the law is expected to be punished. While it is harsh and sometimes hard to understand, the Ban on Talos wasn't something easily put into place. It took many years of warfare and destruction for it to happen.

A man opens a gate, he should die? Yes he should, he didn't simply open a gate. He was a guard in Solitude, he knew exactly what he was doing when he let Ulfric escape, watching the execution scene shows he knew what he was doing and would do it all over again, claiming Ulfric is in the right. He is by his actions accessory to High treason against the Empire, which the punishment for high treason is death. He was hardly an innocent who opened a gate randomly.

Sound the horns when a single Noble is harmed? Sending in expert Generals... Tullius arrived when Ulfric Stormcloak declared war against the western holds, plunged Skyrim into a war of succession and had the Nords in a Civil war which they haven't done since the First War of Succession.

So if you believe sending in a Military General to restore order when the province is ready to tear itself apart, with citizens who do not want to be under Ulfric's tyranny. Then you a strange moral compass.

You call the Empire oppressors, yet you fight for a tyrant. You claim you fight for the 'common folk' yet the very Legionaries you kill are common folk, nearly all of them locally recruited and are fighting to restore their homeland.

Your main arguments are based on the belief that everything is an Imperial lie. I find it interesting you're now using the Bard in your argument when not too long ago you were claiming it as propaganda. If you want to do your head canon, that is fine. But try to leave it out of arguments based on fact.

You yourself have made it clear to why you're a Stormcloak. You claim oppression while having no problems with the racial hatred, the racial segregation and the fact the Stormcloaks in the Reach plan to enslave the native population. You have used slavery as an argument and are now fighting for a group who will use slaves. As a Khajiit one would think you to be more sympathetic to the people of the Reach who are common folk, being put in chains and also being forbidden to worship their own Gods.

Stormcloaks cry victim yet they are the real oppressors. They demand free worship when the people of the Reach want the same. The people of the Reach took up arms against the Nords and they're called terrorists by some Stormcloak supporters. Yet when the Stormcloaks have taken up arms, they're a bloody hero?

Stormcloak Skyrim is oppression, your biased views towards your own Government can't keep you that blind forever. You go on about Nobles in the Empire, but the Stormcloaks go on about Skyrim for the Nords. While many do not understand the meaning, it is clear it is "Skyrim for Nords only" That is what they want, speak with the Free-Winter fellow in Windhelm, he'll explain to you what Skyrim for the Nords means.

It isn't about Skyrim should be ruled by Nords, because it already is and it has been since Ysgramor founded his city.

Many Stormcloak supporters in the thread claim to fight for tradition yet Ulfric makes a mockery of tradition, he abuses Nordic tradition. Nordic tradition that the Empire respected, the Pact of Chieftains means nothing under Ulfric Stormcloak, the way of the voice and the list goes on.

You also have Stormcloak supporters saying it is Galmar who is the bad one, not Ulfric. Galmar gets placed in charge of keeping the Jarls in line, making sure they follow Ulfric's orders.

You claim the Legion is an oppressive police state. Yet the opening scene they're aiding the "common folk" You got soldiers with the wounded trying to stop bleeding.

What was Ulfric's actions during a city attack? Execute everyone who didn't aid him. You didn't see the Legions executing children old enough to wield a sword that didn't pick one up in the name of the Emperor.

"With us or against us." True words of a non oppressive group...

I also hate to break it to you, but the Stormcloaks have nobles too. The Stormcloak supporting Jarls are their nobles and I'm sure you absolutely love them. You got one teaching his son to hate dark elves, you got another planning to enslave a native population, hell you even got one who is willing to sacrifice every man woman and child for a cause not of their own.

You fight for the common folk right?

Bulfrek: "Skald, if you don't mind sir, I have a request."
Skald: "You, have a request of me, Bulfrek? This should be interesting."
Bulfrek: "Well, I was thinking sir, with the war going on and all. Maybe, I could enlist? Fight the Imperials?"
Skald: "A servant? Enlisting in the Stormcloaks? Ah, Bulfrek, that's why I like having you about. You're always good for a laugh."

Yeah, you can certainly see how Stormcloak "Nobles" feel about the common folk.

Too long; didn't read.

I'll just assume its more of the usual "Q.Q poor Titus had no choice! He had to stop caring for his people to care about them, I sweat!"

Anyways, give me a short answer for this question or I'll ignore it too. Did Ulfric murder the High King? If so, why?))

 

[DrunkenMage]

Too long; didn't read.

I'll just assume its more of the usual "Q.Q poor Titus had no choice! He had to stop caring for his people to care about them, I sweat!"

Anyways, give me a short answer for this question or I'll ignore it too. Did Ulfric murder the High King? If so, why?))

Ulfric did murder the High King. High King Torygg had some martial ability but it mattered little since Ulfric used magic during an honorable duel between Jarls. Trial by combat, which is generally one of strength. Ulfric killed Torygg merely to send a message to the other Jarls. Perhaps to increase his own legend? It seemed to have a good effect to Skald, Jarl of Dawnstar. Who apparently considers Ulfric as the second coming of Talos.

Now half of Skyrim claims murder, Ulfric used the Thu'um to which his only defense against it is saying his sword finished Torygg. But Ulfric is the only one who claims the sword ended Torygg's life. Though I'm not too sure, but I believe Ulfric has an axe not a sword.

"When Ulfric Stormcloak, with savage Shout, sent me here, my sole regret was fair Elisif, left forlorn and weeping. I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same?" - Torygg

"Ulfric Stormcloak. Some here in Helgen call you a hero. But a hero doesn't use a power like the Voice to murder his king and usurp his throne." - General Tullius

The High King of Skyrim, Torygg, was recently killed by Ulfric Stormcloak, who used the ancient power of the Thu'um to nearly shout Torygg to pieces. - Skyrim loading screen.

 

[Ozan]

Too long; didn't read.

I'll just assume its more of the usual "Q.Q poor Titus had no choice! He had to stop caring for his people to care about them, I sweat!"

Anyways, give me a short answer for this question or I'll ignore it too. Did Ulfric murder the High King? If so, why?))

Ulfric did murder the High King. High King Torygg had some martial ability but it mattered little since Ulfric used magic during an honorable duel between Jarls. Trial by combat, which is generally one of strength. Ulfric killed Torygg merely to send a message to the other Jarls. Perhaps to increase his own legend? It seemed to have a good effect to Skald, Jarl of Dawnstar. Who apparently considers Ulfric as the second coming of Talos.

Now half of Skyrim claims murder, Ulfric used the Thu'um to which his only defense against it is saying his sword finished Torygg. But Ulfric is the only one who claims the sword ended Torygg's life. Though I'm not too sure, but I believe Ulfric has an axe not a sword.

"When Ulfric Stormcloak, with savage Shout, sent me here, my sole regret was fair Elisif, left forlorn and weeping. I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same?" - Torygg

"Ulfric Stormcloak. Some here in Helgen call you a hero. But a hero doesn't use a power like the Voice to murder his king and usurp his throne." - General Tullius

The High King of Skyrim, Torygg, was recently killed by Ulfric Stormcloak, who used the ancient power of the Thu'um to nearly shout Torygg to pieces. - Skyrim loading screen.

So, because he used the Thu'um, its murder? No other reason?))

 

[DrunkenMage]

Too long; didn't read.

I'll just assume its more of the usual "Q.Q poor Titus had no choice! He had to stop caring for his people to care about them, I sweat!"

Anyways, give me a short answer for this question or I'll ignore it too. Did Ulfric murder the High King? If so, why?))

Ulfric did murder the High King. High King Torygg had some martial ability but it mattered little since Ulfric used magic during an honorable duel between Jarls. Trial by combat, which is generally one of strength. Ulfric killed Torygg merely to send a message to the other Jarls. Perhaps to increase his own legend? It seemed to have a good effect to Skald, Jarl of Dawnstar. Who apparently considers Ulfric as the second coming of Talos.

Now half of Skyrim claims murder, Ulfric used the Thu'um to which his only defense against it is saying his sword finished Torygg. But Ulfric is the only one who claims the sword ended Torygg's life. Though I'm not too sure, but I believe Ulfric has an axe not a sword.

"When Ulfric Stormcloak, with savage Shout, sent me here, my sole regret was fair Elisif, left forlorn and weeping. I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same?" - Torygg

"Ulfric Stormcloak. Some here in Helgen call you a hero. But a hero doesn't use a power like the Voice to murder his king and usurp his throne." - General Tullius

The High King of Skyrim, Torygg, was recently killed by Ulfric Stormcloak, who used the ancient power of the Thu'um to nearly shout Torygg to pieces. - Skyrim loading screen.

So, because he used the Thu'um, its murder? No other reason?))

Nords are strange people. They value traditions, by sacred tradition Ulfric abused the Thu'um. Basically spitting in the face of a Nordic Goddess, abusing the way of the voice which has been tradition since the First Era.

Much the same way he abuses the Pact of Chieftains, he is also not allowing the Moot to meet for things to be settled the Nord way.

Ulfric: "Tell me again why we're wasting time and dwindling resources chasing a legend. We don't even know it exists!"
Galmar: "The Jarls are upset. They don't all support you."
Ulfric: "Damn the Jarls."
Galmar: "They demand the Moot."
Ulfric: "And damn the Moot!

"...To return to our glory and traditions, to determine our own future! And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it."

Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."

 

[DrunkenMage]

It will always be murder to the Empire. Harming the King is High Treason. Just he probably may of had more support had he not used the Thu'um. But he wanted the war to occur, the Empire didn't want the Civil War, however diplomacy with a man who cares about his own legend won't work out.

As Tullius mentions, he's willing to let thousands die for his own selfish ambitions.

 

[Ozan]

Nords are strange people. They value traditions, by sacred tradition Ulfric abused the Thu'um. Basically spitting in the face of a Nordic Goddess, abusing the way of the voice which has been tradition since the First Era.

All I needed right there.

So, if he murdered the High King of Skyrim because he used the Thu'um, then the Empire wouldn't have gotten involved if he had just killed him with a weapon and not because he is, you know, the High King of Skyrim and a part of the Empire. Good to know.))

 

[Ozan]

It will always be murder to the Empire. Harming the King is High Treason. Just he probably may of had more support had he not used the Thu'um. But he wanted the war to occur, the Empire didn't want the Civil War, however diplomacy with a man who cares about his own legend won't work out.

As Tullius mentions, he's willing to let thousands die for his own selfish ambitions.

Oh, then it doesn't matter what killed the High King then... So why bring it up?))

 

[Raijin]

If Ulfric did murder the High king,DrunkenMage , then how come Torygg didn't say anything about Ulfric murdering him in Sovngarde? All he did was went all sour apples, and complain that he lost because Ulfric shouted at him.

"When Ulfric Stormcloak, with savage Shout, sent me here, my sole regret was fair Elisif, left forlorn and weeping. I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same?"

In the mean time....

 

[Raijin]

"Ulfric Stormcloak. Some here in Helgen call you a hero. But a hero doesn't use a power like the Voice to murder his king and usurp his throne." - General Tullius

The High King of Skyrim, Torygg, was recently killed by Ulfric Stormcloak, who used the ancient power of the Thu'um to nearly shout Torygg to pieces. - Skyrim loading screen.

LOL! General Tullius is so bias. Of course he's going to say that Ulfric murdered him. Hes working for the Empire after all. Using him was just silly.

The loading screen indicated that he killed the High king, not murdering him. You make it as if Ulfric is a member of the Dark Brotherhood.

 

[Raijin]

General Tullius doesn't have a clue about the Nordic tradition. He's completely uniformed, which is why he has a Nord Legate by his side.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

LOL! General Tullius is so bias. Of course he's going to say that Ulfric murdered him. Hes working for the Empire after all. Using him was just silly.

I'm just going to disregard the fact that the man you're drawing your info from on the duel also happens to be the leader of the Stormcloak rebellion and has every reason to embellish the truth. It's confirmed Ulfric lied about the duel, he claims he killed Torygg with his sword and yet when you ask the late High King himself in Sovngarde he states Ulfric sent him there with the shout.

Unless you're going to begin claiming that Torygg is somehow lying and trying to manipulate the player even though he's already dead.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

General Tullius doesn't have a clue about the Nordic tradition. He's completely uniformed, which is why he has a Nord Legate by his side.

Why does it matter? Generals are sent to wage war, not sing around the campfire with the local population.

 

[Raijin]

I'm just going to disregard the fact that the man you're drawing your info from on the duel also happens to be the leader of the Stormcloak rebellion and has every reason to embellish the truth. It's confirmed Ulfric lied about the duel, he claims he killed Torygg with his sword and yet when you ask the late High King himself in Sovngarde he states Ulfric sent him there with the shout.

Unless you're going to begin claiming that Torygg is somehow lying and trying to manipulate the player even though he's already dead.

Why does it matter? Generals are sent to wage war, not sing around the campfire with the local population.

Am I suppose to sit here and absorb everything that General Tullius tells me as the truth? He wasn't even there at the time so everything that is Torygg related should be treated as happy-go-lucky. He is only saying that Ulfric is a murderer base on what he was told, nothing more. If I'm unable to use the information that Ulfric tells me then it's only fair that you guys can't quote General Tullius or use anything that is imperial related to further advanced this argument, Fair enough, huh?

And no. It's not been confirmed that Ulfric lied, but even if he did... He's still not a murderer since Torygg acknowledge that he engaged in the dual. He could of told Ulfric no, but he wanted to save his pride by fighting him. What Ulfric did was not illegal. If it was then it only means that Torygg was a plopsty High King who doesn't even know the laws of his own land and the Empire.

Ulfric did right by killing him.

 

[Raijin]

Ozan so you award me with rep points for misspelling Duel with Dual?

Cool

[Starts a benging spree of bad grammar with speling erroz]

 

[Ozan]

Ozan so you award me with rep points for misspelling Duel with Dual?

Cool

[Starts a benging spree of bad grammar with speling erroz]

I figure it would be an incentive for you to notice your mistake and encourage you to begin correcting your own work. I have learned when you bluntly correct someone, they respond negatively. So, I decided to take it upon myself to begin an experiment... and its not going as plan, I see.))

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Am I suppose to sit here and absorb everything that General Tullius tells me as the truth? He wasn't even there at the time so everything that is Torygg related should be treated as happy-go-lucky. He is only saying that Ulfric is a murderer base on what he was told, nothing more. If I'm unable to use the information that Ulfric tells me then it's only fair that you guys can't quote General Tullius or use anything that is imperial related to further advanced this argument, Fair enough, huh?

No, what you should be absorbing as truth is the fact that everybody present at the duel claims Ulfric killed Torygg with the Thu'um. Furthermore I'm not even beginning to claim that Tulius really knows what happened, only that Torygg himself tells you himself that Ulfric used the tongue to send him to Sovngarde.

And no. It's not been confirmed that Ulfric lied, but even if he did...

He said he killed Torygg with a sword, Torygg himself says Ulfric sent him to Sovngarde with the Thu'um. How is this not confirmation for the fact that Ulfric killed him with the dragontongue? Furthermore why did Ulfric even need to use it to begin with? By all accounts Ulfric was physically stronger and more experienced with combat, so why was the Thu'um even needed?

He's still not a murderer since Torygg acknowledge that he engaged in the dual. He could of told Ulfric no, but he wanted to save his pride by fighting him. What Ulfric did was not illegal. If it was then it only means that Torygg was a pl***ty High King who doesn't even know the laws of his own land and the Empire.

And? I never claimed it was murder.

Ulfric did right by killing him.

Right, plunging Skyrim into Civil War was doing right. Thanks, Ulfric.