Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

Yeah that was pretty awesome.


Damn... all of these good jolly good memories- back in the old days I need to play Skyrim again. I need to reinstall the game on my new hard drive, and start from the beginning again

Come to the Empire, we have cookies.

Drunkenmage will be thrilled over this but yes, On my new character that I'm going to create will most likely join the imperials/Empire, however after the civil war is over with my character will have somewhat of an antagonist characteristics has he will become a vampire lord, and the new Lord.

I will either play as an Altmer (again) or as a Dunmer. I always wonder how people will treat me as one in windhelm

"You damn gray-skin. Go back to Morrowind!" - Rolff Stone-Fist if your character is Dunmer.

Ulfric: "Blasted dark elves."

 

[Raijin]

Come to the Empire, we have cookies.

Drunkenmage will be thrilled over this but yes, On my new character that I'm going to create will most likely join the imperials/Empire, however after the civil war is over with my character will have somewhat of an antagonist characteristics has he will become a vampire lord, and the new Lord.

I will either play as an Altmer (again) or as a Dunmer. I always wonder how people will treat me as one in windhelm

"You damn gray-skin. Go back to Morrowind!" - Rolff Stone-Fist if your character is Dunmer.

Ulfric: "Blasted dark elves."

I think I'm going to enjoy myself as a Dunmer. If I could create a decent character I'm going to have it go, and take a swing at Rolff

 

[DrunkenMage]

I think I'm going to enjoy myself as a Dunmer. If I could create a decent character I'm going to have it go, and take a swing at Rolff

Council of Mages is where it is at. Politics are only good if they're about the practice of magic. Who worships which dead god? Meaningless, the only true God is Magnus.

 

[Sven]

Hearing Tullius voice just make me want to kick at something, and hard.

Tullius has a commanding tone, I enjoy hearing his voice. Him and Titus Mede II.

Of course you do,you make such a fine puppet yourself.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Hearing Tullius voice just make me want to kick at something, and hard.

Tullius has a commanding tone, I enjoy hearing his voice. Him and Titus Mede II.

Of course you do,you make such a fine puppet yourself.

No different than following Ulfric, he was the puppet who allowed the pieces to fall together.

 

[Sven]

At least one side still has honor,unlike the empire,who is ready to spread cheeks any time just to stay alive.

What do you think is better?Do die with your pride and honor or to shame yourself for the price of existence?

 

[DrunkenMage]

At least one side still has honor,unlike the empire,who is ready to spread cheeks any time just to stay alive.

What do you think is better?Do die with your pride and honor or to shame yourself for the price of existence?

Honor?

Did Ulfric have honor when after the war the Thalmor established contact with him and he proved his worth to them?

Did Ulfric have honor when he killed the young Torygg using the Thu'um?

Did Ulfric have honor when Jarl Balgruuf challenged Ulfric man to man, and instead he sends his 'Stormcloaks' to do it for him?

Even if Ulfric showed honor, so too does the Empire which consists of thousands of citizens, Nords too. But to quote Captain Aldis "Being honorable might make you a good man, but it doesn't make you right. Be a better world if it did."

What is better you ask? "There's no glory in war. It's just something they tell soldiers so they'll risk their lives." - Brunwulf

The Empire is made up of thousands and thousands of innocent civilians. If thinking of them, instead of personal glory and self sacrifice is less important. Then the Empire would be worse. None should suffer so that a few Nords in a Mead hall hundreds of miles away in Skyrim can go "Brave defeat it was, now time for slavery and slaughter at the hands of the Aldmeri Dominion."

 

[Raijin]

Tullius has a commanding tone, I enjoy hearing his voice. Him and Titus Mede II.

Of course you do,you make such a fine puppet yourself.

No different than following Ulfric, he was the puppet who allowed the pieces to fall together.

that's a lie! ALL lies! More Imperial Propaganda.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Of course you do,you make such a fine puppet yourself.

No different than following Ulfric, he was the puppet who allowed the pieces to fall together.

that's a lie! ALL lies! More Imperial Propaganda.

You're a Legionnaire now. Get yourself straight soldier!

 

[Sven]

At least one side still has honor,unlike the empire,who is ready to spread cheeks any time just to stay alive.

What do you think is better?Do die with your pride and honor or to shame yourself for the price of existence?

Honor?

Did Ulfric have honor when after the war the Thalmor established contact with him and he proved his worth to them?

Did Ulfric have honor when he killed the young Torygg using the Thu'um?

Did Ulfric have honor when Jarl Balgruuf challenged Ulfric man to man, and instead he sends his 'Stormcloaks' to do it for him?

Even if Ulfric showed honor, so too does the Empire which consists of thousands of citizens, Nords too. But to quote Captain Aldis "Being honorable might make you a good man, but it doesn't make you right. Be a better world if it did."

What is better you ask? "There's no glory in war. It's just something they tell soldiers so they'll risk their lives." - Brunwulf

The Empire is made up of thousands and thousands of innocent civilians. If thinking of them, instead of personal glory and self sacrifice is less important. Then the Empire would be worse. None should suffer so that a few Nords in a Mead hall hundreds of miles away in Skyrim can go "Brave defeat it was, now time for slavery and slaughter at the hands of the Aldmeri Dominion."

Why do you keep bringing the "Thalmor agent" bullplops,that is not proved to be true.

And Ulfric bested Torygg in fair contest.It was after all a sword that cut him in the end,not a shout.And he did not really care for the boy.It was nothing personal,just Ulfric needed to prove the seriousness of his cause and Torygg was the perfect target for that job.

About Balgruuf,he already did what he had to do with Torygg,so he left the carnage for his army.

Brunwulf is a hell of a milk drinker,Imperial boot licker,He knows if Ulfric dies there is no one in line to be Jarl but him,thats why he smooches on Tullius's ass.

 

[DrunkenMage]

At least one side still has honor,unlike the empire,who is ready to spread cheeks any time just to stay alive.

What do you think is better?Do die with your pride and honor or to shame yourself for the price of existence?

Honor?

Did Ulfric have honor when after the war the Thalmor established contact with him and he proved his worth to them?

Did Ulfric have honor when he killed the young Torygg using the Thu'um?

Did Ulfric have honor when Jarl Balgruuf challenged Ulfric man to man, and instead he sends his 'Stormcloaks' to do it for him?

Even if Ulfric showed honor, so too does the Empire which consists of thousands of citizens, Nords too. But to quote Captain Aldis "Being honorable might make you a good man, but it doesn't make you right. Be a better world if it did."

What is better you ask? "There's no glory in war. It's just something they tell soldiers so they'll risk their lives." - Brunwulf

The Empire is made up of thousands and thousands of innocent civilians. If thinking of them, instead of personal glory and self sacrifice is less important. Then the Empire would be worse. None should suffer so that a few Nords in a Mead hall hundreds of miles away in Skyrim can go "Brave defeat it was, now time for slavery and slaughter at the hands of the Aldmeri Dominion."

Why do you keep bringing the "Thalmor agent" bullpl***,that is not proved to be true.

And Ulfric bested Torygg in fair contest.It was after all a sword that cut him in the end,not a shout.And he did not really care for the boy.It was nothing personal,just Ulfric needed to prove the seriousness of his cause and Torygg was the perfect target for that job.

About Balgruuf,he already did what he had to do with Torygg,so he left the carnage for his army.

Brunwulf is a hell of a milk drinker,Imperial boot licker,He knows if Ulfric dies there is no one in line to be Jarl but him,thats why he smooches on Tullius's ass.

I didn't say Thalmor agent. And it isn't bullplops, it is in-game material.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

Background: Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset

 

[Sven]

Well you know Julius Ceaser was once a great asset of the Senate,but later they all ate a big **** from him.If you are familiar with Roman history.

Ulfric may have been forced to cooperate under absolutely no other option,youre not capable of resisting much when you are chained to a wall.

The Empire however,had every and many options to resist the White-Gold Concordat,and they would have won too,but the Emperor just could not find a spine or a set of balls within himself to do it.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

Well if she was German,that would actually be pretty normal (Damn im brutal)

I'm German, and no, it most certainly isn't normal. Haven't heard of this prejudice yet but over here people prefer to get partners that suit their own age. Except for a few old men who buy their women up from the countries a few miles east, but buying someone to cook for you and entertain you at night for a better standard of living and a marriage paper can't seriously be considered a relationship.

Well you know Julius Ceaser was once a great asset of the Senate,but later they all ate a big **** from him.If you are familiar with Roman history.

Ulfric may have been forced to cooperate under absolutely no other option,youre not capable of resisting much when you are chained to a wall.

The Empire however,had every and many options to resist the White-Gold Concordat,and they would have won too,but the Emperor just could not find a spine or a set of balls within himself to do it.

Caesar was given the lead when the Roman Empire was in trouble, to explain it in a more simple way (or at least easier than giving you a lecture about Roman politics and development). Afterwards he wouldn't give the reigns back and plenty of factors lead to his assassination.
I'm surprised you'd ever use him of all Emperors as an example. It's completely different from Tamriel's Emperor being killed, Caesar by his own underlings, Mede by a paid-off organization.

And do tell me how the Emperor could have defeated the Dominion with decreased manpower and internal struggle because there was barely anyone left to keep law and order.
Why bother fighting if by the time you'd return, IF you'd ever return, there wouldn't be an Empire left to defend?

 

[Anouck]

The Empire however,had every and many options to resist the White-Gold Concordat,and they would have won too,but the Emperor just could not find a spine or a set of balls within himself to do it.

I am very curious about the explanation behind this theory. Like Rimfaxe96 already said: 'do tell me how the Emperor could have defeated the Dominion with decreased manpower and internal struggle because there was barely anyone left to keep law and order'.

During the Sack of the Imperial City in 4E 174, lord Naarifin's Aldmeri army surrounded the Imperial City. With his main army, the Emperor (Titus II) fled north to Skyrim in order to join with reinforecements under General Jonna. The invaders sacked the Imperial City soon after, and the White-Gold Tower was burned and looted. The Aldmeri Dominion committed many atrocities against the city's populace.
A year later, Titus II split his remaining forces into three hosts that surround the occupied Imperial City. It took long, and many died, but the Aldmeri Dominion army in Cyrodill got crushed and the Imperial City was recaptured. Lord Naarifin was hung from the top of the White-Gold Tower and kept alive for thirty-three days.
They won that battle, but not the war. Titus II realized the Empire was too exhausted to continue fighting. There was internal struggle, decreased manpower, and the Aldmeri Dominion was just stronger overall. What was the best thing to do? Fighting until the last man standing dies? Fighting until they killed the last woman and child? Or surrendering and making the best out of an unfortunate situation?
Compare it to a soldier that is wounded, and has to get medical care before going back to the battlefield. In the state he is in at that moment, he would never make it. So he has to take a step back to recover from the damage that was done. Which is what Titus II did.
He negotiated with the Thalmor and signed the White-Gold Concordat. From now on, the Thalmor had free reign to stamp out the worship of Talos in Tamriel. Also, the Blades got disbanded and they (the Dominion) got a large part from Hammerfell.

We have to look at this situation as neutral and objective as possible. No one liked it that Talos got banned. No one liked it that the Empire had to surrender. But what was the best thing to do at that moment? Should the Empire just carry on and, like I said, keep on fighting until they get crushed? Or come to an (temporary) agreement with the Thalmor that gives the Empire some time to breath?
You see, if you continue a war and don't surrender until you get brutally defeated, there is no such thing as making compromises. If you get defeated, you are 100% dependent on their mercy and have to accept whatever terms they come up with. Because you lost. You lost and you have nothing to say anymore. And you can disagree all you want, but that is just the way things are.
If you put your pride aside and surrender, you get time to recover and regain strength to continue the war. That means answering to a treaty you don't exactly agree with, but at least it is an investment in the future. Remember that the right decision is not always the popular one. Sometimes things get worse before they get better, and expecting that beating the Thalmor would be easy is straight out naive.
People need to remember that accepting the Concordat is a short term thing. On the long run it means true freedom and victory over the Aldmeri Dominion. And isn't that our main goal?

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

People need to remember that accepting the Concordat is a short term thing. On the long run it means true freedom and victory over the Aldmeri Dominion. And isn't that our main goal?

Yeah, long term peace where the enemy is allowed to eliminate your men and potentially steal your resource so you have even less than what you have.

The only reason to fear the Thalmor is if you are a coward. They have NOTHING. at all. Certainly not enough men to launch a massive invasion the Empire seems to think they are capable of. The Justiciars are the only way they can crush the Empire right now.

 

[Anouck]

People need to remember that accepting the Concordat is a short term thing. On the long run it means true freedom and victory over the Aldmeri Dominion. And isn't that our main goal?

Yeah, long term peace where the enemy is allowed to eliminate your men and potentially steal your resource so you have even less than what you have.

The only reason to fear the Thalmor is if you are a coward. They have NOTHING. at all. Certainly not enough men to launch a massive invasion the Empire seems to think they are capable of. The Justiciars are the only way they can crush the Empire right now.

My post was a long one. You decide to quote this tiny bit and rip it out of context. The arguments against your post, Jeremy, are in the rest of my previous post. It is easy to leave out the bits that prove you wrong and go for the tiny little thing you can say something about. Can you reply to the entire post?

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

People need to remember that accepting the Concordat is a short term thing. On the long run it means true freedom and victory over the Aldmeri Dominion. And isn't that our main goal?

Yeah, long term peace where the enemy is allowed to eliminate your men and potentially steal your resource so you have even less than what you have.

The only reason to fear the Thalmor is if you are a coward. They have NOTHING. at all. Certainly not enough men to launch a massive invasion the Empire seems to think they are capable of. The Justiciars are the only way they can crush the Empire right now.

My post was a long one. You decide to quote this tiny bit and rip it out of context. The arguments against your post, Jeremy, are in the rest of my previous post. It is easy to leave out the bits that proof you wrong and go for the tiny little thing you can say something about. Can you reply to the entire post?

Why should I? The Thalmor have nothing left, and cannot invade Cyrodiil, much less Skyrim, without risking the safety of their own borders. many imperials fail to see that and talk about the WGC as the end all-be all temporary peace it is not.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Anouck covered it pretty well, so I'll just respond to this.

The only reason to fear the Thalmor is if you are a coward.

What I fear, is that the Thalmor will see our victory here and turn greater attention to our shores. - Ulfric Stormcloak

 

[Anouck]

Yeah, long term peace where the enemy is allowed to eliminate your men and potentially steal your resource so you have even less than what you have.

The only reason to fear the Thalmor is if you are a coward. They have NOTHING. at all. Certainly not enough men to launch a massive invasion the Empire seems to think they are capable of. The Justiciars are the only way they can crush the Empire right now.

My post was a long one. You decide to quote this tiny bit and rip it out of context. The arguments against your post, Jeremy, are in the rest of my previous post. It is easy to leave out the bits that proof you wrong and go for the tiny little thing you can say something about. Can you reply to the entire post?

Why should I? The Thalmor have nothing left, and cannot invade Cyrodiil, much less Skyrim, without risking the safety of their own borders. many imperials fail to see that and talk about the WGC as the end all-be all temporary peace it is not.

You should because you rip stuff out of context. Like I said: My post already contains the counter argument for your statement. You decided to leave the bits out that prove you wrong, which is a weak debating strategy.

My post contained facts. And one of those facts was that the Empire was outnumbered, which means the Thalmor had more men - and you were wrong when you said 'they have nothing'.

Tell me, why would the 'oh so arrogant and dictating Legion' surrender with no reason? Why would they surrender towards an enemy they can easily beat? What advantage would that give them?

I refuse to retype the post, since you obviously didn't read it. And if you did read it, I wonder how you can make such a statement after reading the arguments that prove you wrong.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

My post was a long one. You decide to quote this tiny bit and rip it out of context. The arguments against your post, Jeremy, are in the rest of my previous post. It is easy to leave out the bits that proof you wrong and go for the tiny little thing you can say something about. Can you reply to the entire post?

Why should I? The Thalmor have nothing left, and cannot invade Cyrodiil, much less Skyrim, without risking the safety of their own borders. many imperials fail to see that and talk about the WGC as the end all-be all temporary peace it is not.

You should because you rip stuff out of context. Like I said: My post already contains the counter argument for your statement. You decided to leave the bits out that prove you wrong, which is a weak debating strategy.

My post contained facts. And one of those facts was that the Empire was outnumbered, which means the Thalmor had more men - and you were wrong when you said 'they have nothing'.

Tell me, why would the 'oh so arrogant and dictating Legion' surrender with no reason? Why would they surrender towards an enemy they can easily beat? What advantage would that give them?

I refuse to retype the post, since you obviously didn't read it. And if you did read it, I wonder how you can make such a statement after reading the arguments that prove you wrong.

??? I was simply stating that the Thalmor are not that much of a threat anymore, unless that post has evidence that they have an army of 10,000 or somewhere about there. There is no need to be afraid of the Thalmor because the Thalmor got there rear-ends handed to them, both in Cyrodiil and in Hammerfell.

Unless that post has proof that the Thalmor still have an army and can invade whenever and are just waiting for the Empire to break it, it does not counter that argument like you think it does.

I am not saying "WAR, SLAUGHTER, KILL THALMOR!!!!" like you imperials are thinking I am saying. I am talking about simply giving the Thalmor the finger to allowing them to be in Skyrim in a "non-action" capacity.