Why do so many people hate squishy mages?

[Parselmagic]

People here obviously have different preferences and play styles. The thing is though that you can criticize warriors or sneaky characters as well. I personally am not playing Elder Scrolls for their great magic or combat systems. Elder Scrolls to me is really about the lore and culture of all the different races.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Can't comment on the DLCs, I have yet to play them.

*SPOILER* there is a staff enchanter so you can make your own staffs, also the black books allow serious buffs to magic ability and adds half a dozen or so new spells and new magic equipment and a few new enchantments such as chaos. I think it brings a lot more to mages. One thing I do agree with you on though is they should have continued allowing spell creation. I honestly beleive they removed it more due to people exploiting it by making game breaking spells such as flam on self for one second allowing you to scale in destruction extremely quickly rather than evacuee they were in a hurry, but playing a mage just isn't the same without it. That being said I still have a much better time as a thief or mage than a standard melee warrior


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

People here obviously have different preferences and play styles. The thing is though that you can criticize warriors or sneaky characters as well. I personally am not playing Elder Scrolls for their great magic or combat systems. Elder Scrolls to me is really about the lore and culture of all the different races.

Exactly the role play potential is immense because the universe is so in depth


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[thomasblaine]

Can't comment on the DLCs, I have yet to play them.

Oh, come on. You're kidding, right? Forget continuously dodging the point and ignoring our arguments, you haven't actually played the entire game?! This is a waste of time. Nobody's saying that Skyrim's magical system is better than any other one, just that it's different and more interesting and thoughtful than the melee gameplay, and that you have to think to make it work.

I agree that it's a shame you can't do a lot of cool weird fluffy stuff that non-magical characters can't just because you're a mage, but the only thing you can do about that is go to a modding forum and make suggestions there, complaining about it on a thread about mage tactics as they are isn't constructive in any sense of the word.

And yammering about not feeling powerful enough when you have a Difficulty setting is not criticizing, it's literally whining and refusing to be argued with.

 

[KritikalPT]

Can't comment on the DLCs, I have yet to play them.

Oh, come on. You're kidding, right? Forget continuously dodging the point and ignoring our arguments, you haven't actually played the entire game?! This is a waste of time. Nobody's saying that Skyrim's magical system is better than any other one, just that it's different and more interesting and thoughtful than the melee gameplay, and that you have to think to make it work..

Now hold the goddamn phone, since when did I say that magic in Skyrim was less thoughtful than melee? Never. You're simply arguing about something that wasn't my point, and yet claim I "whine" about it when you clearly aren't even reading properly what I wrote. And another thing, I've given plenty of criticism on the magic system, and every time someone made a point, I would make one too. Don't say I didn't do, because that's just plain wrong.

This is going to be my last comment on the subject, especially with you, because you are simply everything I'm saying for the sake of denying.

The DAMAGE (yes, all caps and bold so you can see) scaling is awful because it eventually stops, and it's the ONLY thing I compared with melee. If melee scales, so should spells.
Spell selection is limited. If any of the previous titles had almost double the amount of spells, why can't this one have too? Because Bethesda streamlined this game so that casual players that never played a real RPG before can easily pick up and play, which could have been a nice addition, if they didn't damage what made the previous better (Oblivion's a mixed bag, though).

complaining about it on a thread about mage tactics as they are isn't constructive in any sense of the word.

And yet my criticism was towards only one aspect and you are talking about the spells in general. Basically, I'm saying figs taste awful, and you're saying that all fruit is good and delicious and I'm just "whining" about the taste.

Enough of this pointless argument. You can't follow what others are saying, and thus can't hold an argument. Feel free to keep on posting, I won't waste any more of my time with you.

 

[thomasblaine]

Now hold the goddamn phone, since when did I say that magic in Skyrim was less thoughtful than melee? Never. You're simply arguing about something that wasn't my point, and yet claim I "whine" about it when you clearly aren't even reading properly what I wrote. And another thing, I've given plenty of criticism on the magic system, and every time someone made a point, I would make one too. Don't say I didn't do, because that's just plain wrong.

The DAMAGE (yes, all caps and bold so you can see) scaling is awful because it eventually stops, and it's the ONLY thing I compared with melee. If melee scales, so should spells.
Spell selection is limited. If any of the previous titles had almost double the amount of spells, why can't this one have too? Because Bethesda streamlined this game so that casual players that never played a real RPG before can easily pick up and play, which could have been a nice addition, if they didn't damage what made the previous better (Oblivion's a mixed bag, though).

And yet my criticism was towards only one aspect and you are talking about the spells in general. Basically, I'm saying figs taste awful, and you're saying that all fruit is good and delicious and I'm just "whining" about the taste.

Enough of this pointless argument. You can't follow what others are saying, and thus can't hold an argument. Feel free to keep on posting, I won't waste any more of my time with you.

Did I say that you did? I was replying to your statement "If you like it, it's absolutely fine, but don't say that Skyrim's magic is good and that it has a variety of spells, that's just not so. If anything, it's average at best."

I just pointed out that nobody implied anything to the contrary, and recited our actual point, and in fact the point of this entire thread, which has nothing at all to do with your gripes about mages in Skyrim compared to other games. You're the one who keeps misreading what we write and arguing on pointless, unrelated subjects. That's called whining.

And for the third time, comparative damage output between builds in a single player game is UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT WHEN YOU HAVE AN ADJUSTABLE DIFFICULTY SETTING.

Don't be an ass, accusing somebody of not being able to follow an argument and then stating that you won't waste any more time arguing is insulting and silly. People don't get dramatic exits in real life, they just look childish for insisting on having the last word. And it's even worse on online forums where anyone can spend a few minutes coming up with something that makes you look even stupider, and then you can't actually defend yourself without going back on your word.

 

[Wetigos]

coming up with something that makes you look even stupider, and then you can't actually defend yourself without going back on your word.

Sorry i just had to point out the irony that "stupider" isnt a word

*casts calm spell* This is getting alittle out of hand, theres no need to throw insults around over a differing opinion, people having different opinions is a good thing, life would be dull without it.

 

[thomasblaine]

And now I'm compelled to point out the irony in "having" to criticize somebody's vocabulary while supposedly trying to calm down an argument. I'm fine with stupider. It flows perfectly and makes itself understood rather nicely.

*bursts proverbial bubble* You can shelve the clichés, min ven. The differing opinion has generously excused itself from the discussion.

 

[Wetigos]

And now I'm compelled to point out the irony in "having" to criticize somebody's vocabulary while supposedly trying to calm down an argument. I'm fine with stupider. It flows perfectly and makes itself understood rather nicely.

Well i suppose we're just different, i would still be spelling "know" as "no" or "now" if it hadnt been pointed out to me, i guess i'm just not easily offended.

*bursts proverbial bubble* You can shelve the clichés, min ven. The differing opinion has generously excused itself from the discussion.

And i think that was the right thing to do, seeing as it was turning into more name calling than constructive arguments.
I'm not pointing fingers, so no need to get so upset about it.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Well i suppose we're just different, i would still be spelling "know" as "no" or "now" if it hadnt been pointed out to me, i guess i'm just not easily offended.



And i think that was the right thing to do, seeing as it was turning into more name calling than constructive arguments.
I'm not pointing fingers, so no need to get so upset about it.

We seem to have gotten off topic my friends lol



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[thomasblaine]

Well i suppose we're just different, i would still be spelling "know" as "no" or "now" if it hadnt been pointed out to me, i guess i'm just not easily offended.

More likely you're not very aware of your own impressions. In specifically terming it ironic to use the "word" stupider, you directly imply that people who use it are stupid. That seems like a counterproductive point to make in any attempt to calm down a situation OR correct someone's grammar, whether the people involved are likely to be easily offended or not.

And i think that was the right thing to do, seeing as it was turning into more name calling than constructive arguments.
I'm not pointing fingers, so no need to get so upset about it.

As you say.

We seem to have gotten off topic my friends lol

You don't say. Any suggestions? At any rate I think we've gotten around the subject of why some people hate squishy mages quite thoroughly at this point.

 

[Wetigos]

Well i suppose we're just different, i would still be spelling "know" as "no" or "now" if it hadnt been pointed out to me, i guess i'm just not easily offended.

More likely you're not very aware of your own impressions. In specifically terming it ironic to use the "word" stupider, you directly imply that people who use it are stupid. That seems like a counterproductive point to make in any attempt to calm down a situation, whether the people involved are likely to be easily offended or not.

Yet i said so lightheartedly, i thought that was pretty apparent from the comment i made.
You chose to be offended by it.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

More likely you're not very aware of your own impressions. In specifically terming it ironic to use the "word" stupider, you directly imply that people who use it are stupid. That seems like a counterproductive point to make in any attempt to calm down a situation OR correct someone's grammar, whether the people involved are likely to be easily offended or not.



As you say.



You don't say. Any suggestions? At any rate I think we've gotten around the subject of why some people hate squishy mages quite thoroughly at this point.

I suggest we stop correcting people's grammar and stop putting so much of our self worth into what people on the Internet think about us I.E. You getting upset cause he corrected your grammar lol



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Basically, squishy mages have to be played smart, and many people to not want that.

 

[thomasblaine]

Nobody is upset or offended, I'm just observing that next time you try to play diplomat, you might want to actually watch your own inflections. Implying that someone is stupid and sticking out your tongue at them and then expecting them not to be offended because you're being so "lighthearted" about it is schoolyard logic. You'll end up having to forgive a lot of people for "choosing" to be offended by your behavior.

I suggest we stop correcting people's grammar and stop putting so much of our self worth into what people on the Internet think about us I.E. You getting upset cause he corrected your grammar lol

Look, if you want an argument to stop then change the subject. Don't belittle everyone involved or take sides or complain that things have gone off-topic or try to make light of it all and risk aggravating the situation, find something else to talk about and pose it so that people will actually have to ignore the new line of conversation and choose to argue to continue the thread in an off-topic direction.

For example, access to the Muffle and Invisibility and Quiet Casting effects realistically makes almost every other ability obsolete, and whenever I've reached points like that I've had to "forget" that I could just stealth through anything to keep the gameplay interesting at all. I think that's my main gripe with being a mage in Skyrim, it's too easy to find a god-awesome combination of spells and perks and then come to rely on them to the exclusion of all else. The challenges tend not to be varied enough to require you to use all your resources as soon as you find a niche.

 

[Joker]

For me, playing a squishy mage is no fun because you aren't viable early on. Spamming destruction spells to survive, or running away from combat because you have no armor or weapon is not enjoyable. If I am going to play a squishy mage, then I am taking away from the game, in my opinion. Warriors can survive from the time you exit Helgen. Mages need to hit level 10, minimum, before you can go adventuring, if your perk points are taken properly. Where is the fun in standing in that? Or, walking around the landscape, spamming muffle, calm, down a potion of magicka, spam soul trap, cast ___flesh, all to raise the levels of those mage skills without actually going out adventuring? If I am going to do those things, then I might as well stand at the forge and get my smithing up to 100, so I can have epic armor and weapons, and then go out and level my 1H, Light/Heavy Armor, and whatever other skill I need for that character.

 

[Nighthiker77]

I think the key to low levels is focusing mainly on one school up to adept or expert so you have one fairly powerful skill at a lower level, and then rounding out the build later. Nothing is worse than having several skills in the 30s or 40s and nothing above that.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

I think the key to low levels is focusing mainly on one school up to adept or expert so you have one fairly powerful skill at a lower level, and then rounding out the build later. Nothing is worse than having several skills in the 30s or 40s and nothing above that.

I agree and it should be either destruction, Conjuration, or illusion. I always go with destruction my self but any of the three will help


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter