Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Omitted a word and spun another around.

Has your tongue tasted sour grapes? Do you have nothing to do but attempt to turn my words around with your lack of comprehension? I believe the true coward is amongst us.

No, the true coward is the man who chose vanity over being a true nord.

IF I was a Nord and were to die, I would die fighting, like a Nord.

HE WAS BEING STRA-TE-GIC he knew he would die and If he died this way he would emmass more followers. He didn't surrender because he was outnumbered or because he was frightened.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

He feared dying in the woods like a man. How does not that not fit the definition of a coward?

Can you prove that Ufric was afraid to die in the woods?

He chose not to die in the woods. How much evidence do you need other than the obvious.

STRA-TE-GIC

 

[Tyer032392]

HE WAS BEING STRA-TE-GIC he knew he would die and If he died this way he would emmass more followers. He didn't surrender because he was outnumbered or because he was frightened.

But doesn't that go against Ulfric's "Fight, or die well" philosophy that he had indoctrinated into his army?

 

[Vatonage]

But doesn't that go against Ulfric's "Fight, or die well" philosophy that he had indoctrinated into his army?

It works for an army, not a leader.

 

[Tyer032392]

It works for an army, not a leader.

But would Ulfric not be a better martyr if he had died fighting in that ambush? Thereby giving many people more reason to join the rebellion, especially seeing how Galmar would take over the rebellion should anything happen to Ulfric?

 

[Vatonage]

But would Ulfric not be a better martyr if he had died fighting in that ambush? Thereby giving many people more reason to join the rebellion, especially seeing how Galmar would take over the rebellion should anything happen to Ulfric?

Ulfric, unfortunately, is not perfection. Like many in Tamriel, he does not have the ability to preform literally everything at its optimum. Maybe he would've. Maybe he wouldn't. You have done your part.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

HE WAS BEING STRA-TE-GIC he knew he would die and If he died this way he would emmass more followers. He didn't surrender because he was outnumbered or because he was frightened.

But doesn't that go against Ulfric's "Fight, or die well" philosophy that he had indoctrinated into his army?

Kind of, yeah. But if surrender benefits the SONS in the long term its different. Think of it this way: Ulfric at his ambush knows he and his men will be slaughtered, one way, or another. He can fight and be cut down in the forest which would give him a valiant death, but pretty much ruin the war effort. Or he can be executed without trial, be denied the right to even speak and be decapitated which will emmass more followers. This should also prove that Ulfric wants more than just to be High King.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

It works for an army, not a leader.

But would Ulfric not be a better martyr if he had died fighting in that ambush? Thereby giving many people more reason to join the rebellion, especially seeing how Galmar would take over the rebellion should anything happen to Ulfric?

No. If he got cut down in the forest nothing would change. I've already explained this though.

 

[Vatonage]

Kind of, yeah. But if surrender benefits the SONS in the long term its different. Think of it this way: Ulfric at his ambush knows he and his men will be slaughtered, one way, or another. He can fight and be cut down in the forest which would give him a valiant death, but pretty much ruin the war effort. Or he can be executed without trial, be denied the right to even speak and be decapitated which will emmass more followers. This should also prove that Ulfric wants more than just to be High King.

Just... You said it better than I could've.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Actually he did when you guy's sieged his city. He fought and died valiantly. I've already mentioned this several times. However, you must be too thick to understand you close minded Imperial dog!! Rot in Oblivion.

He dies for a song, not his beliefs, if he had any.

GOD!? Its obvious he fights for more than just the Throne.

Seizing the throne of Skyrim is a main objective of the Stormcloak cause, one of the things Ralof states during the cart ride, 1st 5 mins of the game. The death of Torygg AND denying the Moot to meet indicates it is the MAIN objective.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Kind of, yeah. But if surrender benefits the SONS in the long term its different. Think of it this way: Ulfric at his ambush knows he and his men will be slaughtered, one way, or another. He can fight and be cut down in the forest which would give him a valiant death, but pretty much ruin the war effort. Or he can be executed without trial, be denied the right to even speak and be decapitated which will emmass more followers. This should also prove that Ulfric wants more than just to be High King.

Just... You said it better than I could've.

Thank you . Much appreciated brother.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Has your tongue tasted sour grapes? Do you have nothing to do but attempt to turn my words around with your lack of comprehension? I believe the true coward is amongst us.

No, the true coward is the man who chose vanity over being a true nord.

IF I was a Nord and were to die, I would die fighting, like a Nord.

HE WAS BEING STRA-TE-GIC he knew he would die and If he died this way he would emmass more followers. He didn't surrender because he was outnumbered or because he was frightened.

A Nord doesn't think that way. A True Nord would rather die than surrender and allow himself to be paraded around on a cart, gagged and bound. Course... this wasn't Ulfric's first time at that game but I digress.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

He dies for a song, not his beliefs, if he had any.

GOD!? Its obvious he fights for more than just the Throne.

Seizing the throne of Skyrim is a main objective of the Stormcloak cause, one of the things Ralof states during the cart ride, 1st 5 mins of the game. The death of Torygg AND denying the Moot to meet indicates it is the MAIN objective.

It's definitely one of them. I won't lie to you. We have three, in no particular order of importance:
1.) The Reinstatement of Talos Worship.
2.) The Thalmor being driven OUT of Skyrim.
3.) Seize The Throne.

 

[Vatonage]

A Nord doesn't think that way. A True Nord would rather die than surrender and allow himself to be paraded around on a cart, gagged and bound. Course... this wasn't Ulfric's first time at that game but I digress.

Damnit, a true Nord wouldn't be bound by himself! He wouldn't die needlessly!
All I've heard so far is the constant insistence that a True Nord would die such a needless death, but why do it when the other is more valuable? We already answered this, yet you all continue to throw it at us like it would change anything!

 

[LegateFasendil]

It works for an army, not a leader.

But would Ulfric not be a better martyr if he had died fighting in that ambush? Thereby giving many people more reason to join the rebellion, especially seeing how Galmar would take over the rebellion should anything happen to Ulfric?

He could have also died fighting the Thalmor at Markarth rather than surrender and be thrown in prison. Ulfric's no true Nord by far. Farrrrr from it. Although he is a pretty good politician.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

No, the true coward is the man who chose vanity over being a true nord.

IF I was a Nord and were to die, I would die fighting, like a Nord.

HE WAS BEING STRA-TE-GIC he knew he would die and If he died this way he would emmass more followers. He didn't surrender because he was outnumbered or because he was frightened.

A Nord doesn't think that way. A True Nord would rather die than surrender and allow himself to be paraded around on a cart, gagged and bound. Course... this wasn't Ulfric's first time at that game but I digress.

He has experience with that sort of thing. It doesn't change the fact that he was thinking long term and being strategic. Even Ralof says it.
Ralof: They wouldn't dare give him a trial. Treason, for fighting for your own people. All of Skyrim would see the truth then

 

[Vatonage]

He has experience with that sort of thing. It doesn't change the fact that he was thinking long term and being strategic. Even Ralof says it.
Ralof: They wouldn't dare give him a trial. Treason, for fighting for your own people. All of Skyrim would see the truth then

Exactly! They would berate Ulfric even more if he died like that, I assure you!

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

It works for an army, not a leader.

But would Ulfric not be a better martyr if he had died fighting in that ambush? Thereby giving many people more reason to join the rebellion, especially seeing how Galmar would take over the rebellion should anything happen to Ulfric?

He could have also died fighting the Thalmor at Markarth rather than surrender and be thrown in prison. Ulfric's no true Nord by far. Farrrrr from it. Although he is a pretty good politician.

He was still somewhat loyal to the Empire at that time. However that was the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[Ivory]

He has experience with that sort of thing. It doesn't change the fact that he was thinking long term and being strategic. Even Ralof says it.
Ralof: They wouldn't dare give him a trial. Treason, for fighting for your own people. All of Skyrim would see the truth then

Ironic when a Stormcloak speaks in long term when in the end, the "defeat" of the Empire is a short term outcome.

If they win, Empire eventually goes to war with the Dominion while Skyrim licks their wounds to recover.

1. Empire wins, takes back Summerset, Hammerfell, Elswyre and Valenwood plus with High Rock and Cyrodill VS Skyrim, Cyrodiil wins and Boom, Talos worship all you want.

2. Thalmor win, same situation except now the Thalmor take over skyrim instead and guess what? you still lose your Talos worship.

 

[LegateFasendil]

HE WAS BEING STRA-TE-GIC he knew he would die and If he died this way he would emmass more followers. He didn't surrender because he was outnumbered or because he was frightened.

A Nord doesn't think that way. A True Nord would rather die than surrender and allow himself to be paraded around on a cart, gagged and bound. Course... this wasn't Ulfric's first time at that game but I digress.

He has experience with that sort of thing. It doesn't change the fact that he was thinking long term and being strategic. Even Ralof says it.
Ralof: They wouldn't dare give him a trial. Treason, for fighting for your own people. All of Skyrim would see the truth then

Forget about a "fair trial". He blew that opportunity when he refused to allow the moot to meet.

Killing High Torygg was a Declaration of War against the Empire plain and simple from that moment onwards. Because of, once again, Ulfric's actions, the Empire was forced to declare martial law in Skyrim. That means, summary executions or whatever is necessary to restore order and civility.

Ulfric did not deserve any fair trial, he committed High Treason FIRST against his country and then of course, against the Empire.

I have no sympathy for him. He has himself to blame.