Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[FullmetalHeart20]

You do realize that you can spawn a Stormcloak mage by simply enter this code? 4622B what does that tell you, eh?



I'm not contradicting my argument. The living conditions in Windhelm for these people aren't all that bad if they continue to live there. And moving isn't all that complicated. Windhelm does have a carriages services that can take these people to their final destination. I believe traveling from Windhelm to Riften cost 20 gold. It's not all that expensive.



Separation is the key. The Dunmers can go to Riften and the Argonians can go to Solitude.

Three things. Armies aren't raised by typing code into some creation kit. Tolfdir says in the College quest line that mastery takes years, or even decades. It'd take too long to be on par with Thalmor who can shoot lightning and summon weapons into their hands. Second, are you seriously suggesting the travel system? Those carts look like they can carry 5 people at most, and not every NPC can loot travel money from a bandit camp or burial crypt. Not to mention travel time. Third, the idea of just sending them off like that is flawed. Riften has water. Why not send the Argonians there? And why send both groups to separate cities? No matter what happens, Windhelm would loose a sizable piece of their population. And just the idea of a mass exodus suggests the belief that there is racism to run from in the first place.

 

[Mr1cammando]

That too, if the dark elves and argonians leave, so does the entire labor force.

 

[Crooksin]

You do realize that you can spawn a Stormcloak mage by simply enter this code? 4622B what does that tell you, eh?

Lets not base such things on what we can spawn with the console considering you can get a large number of things that weren't included in the vanilla game such as weapons and armor, its silly to base your argument on things you can achieve when you manipulate the game. There is no Stormcloak mages in the game for a reason. I'm almost positive I've seen you say yourself that the Nords hate magic, but I'm too lazy to search through all the pages.

I'm not contradicting my argument. The living conditions in Windhelm for these people aren't all that bad if they continue to live there. And moving isn't all that complicated. Windhelm does have a carriages services that can take these people to their final destination. I believe traveling from Windhelm to Riften cost 20 gold. It's not all that expensive.

There is contradiction. They are bad living conditions and the reason why they put up with it is because its a better alternative then what you are suggesting. "Get out or deal with it", not a equal or fair philosophy at all. Even though you claim you are not racist and neither is the Stormcloaks/Ulfric, you would gladly send them out on the dangerous roads of Skyrim because they don't like the poverty they live in in Windhelm and you continue to support the segregation.

As far as I can tell, money is hard to come by for the NPCs, not like it is for the Dragonborn, and that cart would not be able to take the load of someone's life earnings not too mention a quarter of the city moving at once. Don't you think Windhelm would be a much better place if everybody was equal, happy and could afford to live comfortably? I'm sure if the Dark Elves were shown more fairness and compassion they would be more inclined to help out around the city as you had stated you would much rather them do.

Tell me, if you were treated and separated based on race like the Dark Elves, would you be inclined or feel you had to help the person/group who was doing it to you? No, you wouldn't.

Separation is the key. The Dunmers can go to Riften and the Argonians can go to Solitude.

Windhelm would take a pretty big hit to its stability if a quarter of the city just up and left, don't you think? It would take a very long time to get back to its current state, which is nothing to brag about in the first place.

123 Not surrendering. You decided to abuse the rating system base on the mistake of dragging the victims of the holocaust (Real life) to compare to what is going on in windhelm (A fictional game).

I'm allergic to stupid people and stupid comments that people make. What you said was completely stupid and irrelevant.

Lets not degrade into playground insults, I could say the exact same about half of your posts as well. They are only just forums ratings.

 

[Jeremius]

They are never seen ingame if they arent spawned in. What does that tell you, eh?

And, as people have said before, the Dunmer really aren't in any place to move.

One. They are barely scraping by. They don't have the resources to pick up everything and leave. Why? Because those who have (the nords) aren't giving.

Two. Where would they go? While were using ingame figures, there isn't any open property that they could ever afford. Not to mention, the only open property are single houses, not fit to house an entire district of double-refugees.

Three. Even if they seperated, the cities ingame are entirely full. No spare houses, none being built and there are only ever one or two bed in an inn at any given time in any city.

Couldn't the dunmer, say, take over Helgen? I doubt the place is going to get rebuilt anytime soon. And the lack of anything to sell means they would have to work to rebuild it, something the Dunmer want. Or they could go back and be saves to the Argonians.

Suddenly, racial segregation looks good compared to being forced to rebuild a small town or slavery.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

And wouldn't no racial segregation, no slavery, and no rebuilding a small town be even better?

 

[Jeremius]

And wouldn't no racial segregation, no slavery, and no rebuilding a small town be even better?

perhaps, but given those options I think the Dunmer were glad to get what they got. IF I were a refugee whose homeland was destroyed then conquered, I would count myself lucky to even get the a place in the docks of Windhelm.

Anyways, lets talk logistics and who is better. Both sides seem pretty even right now, so Morality does not really help me in making a decision of which army to aid.

 

[123]

I'd be happy to have refuge, but I wouldn't be happy when people start talking about how our race is scum and we should leave.

I understand Windhelm has problems with keeping everybody happy, but when Ulfric is sitting on his throne with platters full of food lining the warm palace, it's clear something isn't being done.

 

[Jeremius]

I'd be happy to have refuge, but I wouldn't be happy when people start talking about how our race is scum and we should leave.

I understand Windhelm has problems with keeping everybody happy, but when Ulfric is sitting on his throne with platters full of food lining the warm palace, it's clear something isn't being done.

Have the dunmer Shown any humility/want people to help, or could Ulfric's "Racism" be a product of "they hate us so we hate them?

 

[123]

Don't even put Ulfric's racism in quotes; it isn't a theory, it's what Bethesda wants you to know. It's in the lore. It's everywhere. Just because he lets Dunmer in his city doesn't mean he's not a racist. He's just trying to milk as much from everybody as he can.

You don't say "Hey, your race is stupid and you're scum and get out," and then complain that they aren't helping you to fight for a stupid cause that will ultimately lead to the downfall oh the humans in Skyrim.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

It's stated in game that Ulfric only protects humans in his hold. The only reason elves and beastmen are even safe in Windhelm is because it's his city. If the Imperials win, the new Jarl starts talking to the Dark Elves about moving into other districts, and is figuring out how to let the Argonians in the city without being beaten to death. It turns out 'true Nords' react violently to the lizard people.

 

[Jeremius]

Don't even put Ulfric's racism in quotes; it isn't a theory, it's what Bethesda wants you to know. It's in the lore. It's everywhere. Just because he lets Dunmer in his city doesn't mean he's not a racist. He's just trying to milk as much from everybody as he can.

You don't say "Hey, your race is stupid and you're scum and get out," and then complain that they aren't helping you to fight for a stupid cause that will ultimately lead to the downfall oh the humans in Skyrim.

though that does not say the Dunmer are not at fault here, does it? yes he is racist, Every nord is racist in some way, but the fact remains that people only follow the lore because they have no opinion of their own.

Lore states that Dragons are evil, so I should kill dragons because they are evil, not because they endanger innocent folk. It also says that Paarthurnax is a good dragon but dragons are evil, so he has to be evil and must be destroyed. Get the issue now? Some thing must have made Ulfric hate the elves. If you were attacked by a Black person, wouldn't you be more wary of them? Would that not be racist, scared of another person because someone of his/her skin color attacked you?

 

[123]

Okay, you're just pulling things completely out of your ass now. Now you're trying to say that everybody in Skyrim is a racist, and that lore is actually not true because people who can think for themselves ignore lore. Either understand how the in-game world works, or at the very least stop trying to twist it into something it never was.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

though that does not say the Dunmer are not at fault here, does it? yes he is racist, Every nord is racist in some way, but the fact remains that people only follow the lore because they have no opinion of their own.

Lore states that Dragons are evil, so I should kill dragons because they are evil, not because they endanger innocent folk. It also says that Paarthurnax is a good dragon but dragons are evil, so he has to be evil and must be destroyed. Get the issue now? Some thing must have made Ulfric hate the elves. If you were attacked by a Black person, wouldn't you be more wary of them? Would that not be racist, scared of another person because someone of his/her skin color attacked you?

Of course it would be racist! An encounter with one individual or group, no matter how horrific, doesn't speak for the whole. Let me put it another way. My race conquered the North American continent, utilized slaves, and exploited developing nations. Does that mean we're all that bad? Has your race been known for something awful? And it's disturbing how you try to excuse racism of any kind, even in a fantasy game.

 

[Jeremius]

Okay, you're just pulling things completely out of your ass now. Now you're trying to say that everybody in Skyrim is a racist, and that lore is actually not true because people who can think for themselves ignore lore. Either understand how the in-game world works, or at the very least stop trying to twist it into something it never was.

Lets look at another piece of lore. Lore points to all the bad that Necromancy does and causes it to be considered evil, But what if you had the choice to use the evil magic to save a village? Would you do it? I would most certainly, if I had to in order to live and save people.

 

[123]

Lore says that people in-game believe necromancy is bad. You are incorrect.

 

[Jeremius]

Of course it would be racist! An encounter with one individual or group, no matter how horrific, doesn't speak for the whole. Let me put it another way. My race conquered the North American continent, utilized slaves, and exploited developing nations. Does that mean we're all that bad? Has your race been known for something awful? And it's disturbing how you try to excuse racism of any kind, even in a fantasy game.

I am Cauasian (White) And I know what happened to the slaves. It was wrong, but it was a product of the times, and the same goes for this game.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

It's simple. Racism=bad. Stop trying to abuse the lore to justify it. And how is it comparable to necromancy? Sure, the elves and Argonians can work to prove their worth as people, but there's a lot of room for improvement on the Nords part.

 

[DJDragonflame]

You know, I might take both sides with two other characters that I'll make. That way, Caellian can say that they bore him because they fight over who is best and who is worst. Also, he will say that they need to settle their differences (and I can get all of the achievements from both ). This'll be very interesting, lol.

 

[Crooksin]

Lets look at another piece of lore. Lore points to all the bad that Necromancy does and causes it to be considered evil, But what if you had the choice to use the evil magic to save a village? Would you do it? I would most certainly, if I had to in order to live and save people.

Necromancy I could see being used for good intentions, but segregation of the Dark Elves into the poorest part of Windhelm could help who exactly? Helps the Nords feel powerful? Explain.

 

[Jeremius]

Necromancy I could see being used for good intentions, but segregation of the Dark Elves into the poorest part of Windhelm could help who exactly? Helps the Nords feel powerful? Explain.

The only reason Ulfric is called out more on his racism that, say, Rolff, is because he is a jarl. If the people of Skyrim hate the Khajit, then I say the racism is more just because of the setting. Does not make it more right, just shows that the time it is set in is different that today, and that people blindly use today's morals instead of saying "this is medieval times, stuff like this is going to happen." and finding more logical reason to join one side or the other.

I use it as an example of how different the times are, and that there needs to be a more logical reason to join a faction.