Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

Because without a centralized military the power of the government is undermined and because without a well organized military answering to a central power, an Empire becomes prone to collapse. One of the contributing factors to the decline of the Roman Empire was the decentralization of its territory and military as the size of the Empire grew.

Maybe that Centralized Military killed the empire? Maybe it is time for the Empire to admit that it is not going anywhere and call the whole idea of a centralized Empire ended.

 

[123]

NO, DON'T YOU GET IT? CENTRALIZED MILITARY IS THE ONLY WAY TO DEFEAT THE ALDMERI DOMINION. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MASSIVE, RUTHLESS, AND STRATEGIC THE DOMINION IS. THEY AREN'T GOING TO BE BROUGHT DOWN BY A BUNCH OF NORDS IN LIGHT ARMOR CHARGING WITH TWO HANDED WEAPONS SCREAMING ABOUT HONOR.

 

[azali100]

Maybe that Centralized Military killed the empire? Maybe it is time for the Empire to admit that it is not going anywhere and call the whole idea of a centralized Empire ended.

How did a centralized military kill the Empire? What you were saying is like saying that instead of one US army there should be an army for each state. Do I really need to tell you how that would go wrong?

 

[Jeremius]

NO, DON'T YOU GET IT? CENTRALIZED MILITARY IS THE ONLY WAY TO DEFEAT THE ALDMERI DOMINION. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MASSIVE, RUTHLESS, AND STRATEGIC THE DOMINION IS. THEY AREN'T GOING TO BE BROUGHT DOWN BY A BUNCH OF NORDS IN LIGHT ARMOR CHARGING WITH TWO HANDED WEAPONS SCREAMING ABOUT HONOR.

It did not work out so well for the empire the first time around, so where is the evidence that a United empire is going to be better in another war? You are saying that the Empire is the only hope, when it is shown that aren't that great at all.

Plus, what about a Skyrim legion defending only Skyrim, a Cyrodil legion defending only Cyrodil?

 

[Flint firestorm]

It did not work out so well for the empire the first time around, so where is the evidence that a United empire is going to be better in another war? You are saying that the Empire is the only hope, when it is shown that aren't that great at all.

sooo.....what your saying is....theirs no hope? aaahhhhhh

 

[123]

It did not work out so well for the empire the first time around, so where is the evidence that a United empire is going to be better in another war? You are saying that the Empire is the only hope, when it is shown that aren't that great at all.

Plus, what about a Skyrim legion defending only Skyrim, a Cyrodil legion defending only Cyrodil?

Mmm, yes, BRILLIANT! This man right here knows what he's talking about.

In order to save all of us, we need to only defend OURSELVES! By jove, he's got it! In order to stop the enslavement of our entire species, we need to break off into subsidized sections and never help each other!

 

[Crooksin]

Here's the problem. The Nords didn't go to the Dark Elves... The Dark Elves migrated in Nord land... to Windhelm none of the less. And If I was a Dark Elf who just entered Windhelm instead of acting proud and naive I would search for someone that can guide me through... perhaps someone like the Altmer woman,Niranye, in the marketplace. You are given the chance to ask her a question after you first enter Windhelm: "Are you treated as badly as the Dark Elves?" she replies by saying "It was difficult at first. The Nords of this city are, at best, suspicious of outsiders.But in time I made the right friends and proved myself useful enough that they don't give me trouble anymore. The Dunmer are too proud and naive to see the way things truly are, and so they continue to dwell in that slum."

Can't really say that the Dark Elves aren't doing anything at all based on one High Elf that was lucky enough to open a shop. As for the Dumner being too proud and naive, well, its the exact opposite actually. If there was a few Dark Elves living in prosperity in Windhelm, well maybe I could see your point.

And one last thing... If I was a Dark elf living in Windhelm I would be grateful to have shelter.. a place to sleep and eat, and not have to worry about bandits attacking me. It is my responsibility as an immigrant to prove myself worthy to the land owners. Theirs things that I may not want to do, like joining up with the Stormcloaks, but that's the way it goes. Respect is earned. You must work hard to achieve the respect.

I agree with you, to a certain degree. I do think they should earn respect and prove themselves HOWEVER, they aren't given any opportunity what so ever to do that living in poverty like the Grey Quarter where everything they do is just to get by. Sure, its shelter, but its like 1st world and 3rd world differences between the Grey Quarter and the Nord side of town. That isn't right and the fact that the Dark Elves aren't even allowed to succeed at all in turn doesn't allow them to contribute. Everything you say the Dark Elves aren't doing can be changed if the Nord's/Ulfric would just allow them to do those things.

Immigrants should prove themselves worthy, but the real-life difference is America and places like Canada and the sort actually don't segregate anybody and everybody has equal chance to prosper. The same can definitely not be said about Windhelm, where Dark Elves are treated like plops and then spit on because they don't or can't contribute at all to a cause that doesn't benefit them in the slightest. You put the poor with the poor and then act surprised and hostile when they stay poor and can't help you, your logic in this issue is flawed.

Look at Windhelm as a whole, its a plopshole. Its only as strong as its weakest link, being the Dumner. Its funny how your beloved Ulfric, who you say is a great general and politician, is the Jarl of the plopstiest city in Skyrim. I wonder how that happens?

 

[Jeremius]

Mmm, yes, BRILLIANT! This man right here knows what he's talking about.

In order to save all of us, we need to only defend OURSELVES! By jove, he's got it! In order to stop the enslavement of our entire species, we need to break off into subsidized sections and never help each other!

I know you are being sarcastic, but listen to me. If you have a legion defending only a specific province, then if one province falls, then you have back up. Take all legions to one province that they are all crushed, the the Dominion can waltz into a province unopposed.

 

[Crooksin]

I know you are being sarcastic, but listen to me. If you have a legion defending only a specific province, then if one province falls, then you have back up. Take all legions to one province that they are all crushed, the the Dominion can waltz into a province unopposed.

Its funny how you say this but a few pages back you were bickering about how it doesn't matter because in the end all races will come together to fight the Thalmor. Nice.

 

[Jeremius]

Its funny how you say this but a few pages back you were bickering about how it doesn't matter because in the end all races will come together to fight the Thalmor. Nice.

Never said they had come together from all over. They can come together in each province.

 

[azali100]

I know you are being sarcastic, but listen to me. If you have a legion defending only a specific province, then if one province falls, then you have back up. Take all legions to one province that they are all crushed, the the Dominion can waltz into a province unopposed.

I refuse to believe you are so stupid as to think anyone would take their whole army out of their territory and leave it completely unprotected. YOU LEAVE GARRISONS IN EACH PROVINCE.

 

[Crooksin]

Never said they had come together from all over. They can come together in each province.

Sounds very similar to the Empire, don't you think. You're certainly not describing the Stormcloaks.

 

[Jeremius]

Sounds very similar to the Empire, don't you think. You're certainly not describing the Stormcloaks.

Maybe I just think that both sides are idiots. Agree with both sides on things though.

 

[123]

I know you are being sarcastic, but listen to me. If you have a legion defending only a specific province, then if one province falls, then you have back up. Take all legions to one province that they are all crushed, the the Dominion can waltz into a province unopposed.

You don't put everything in one province, ffs. You spead it out. You can adjust as needed. Also, it's rather difficult to just 'sneak' a massive army into a province. All of the provinces are different, with different terrain, secrets, and people. Black Marsh will always be safe from harm, because of it's terrain.

You're just suggesting exactly what the legion already is.

 

[Jeremius]

You don't put everything in one province, ffs. You spead it out. You can adjust as needed. Also, it's rather difficult to just 'sneak' a massive army into a province. All of the provinces are different, with different terrain, secrets, and people. Black Marsh will always be safe from harm, because of it's terrain.

You're just suggesting exactly what the legion already is.

What I am suggesting is actually, have a legion in a province and recruit locally, and if you need more, get more from local sources, not grab some from the outside. It may be what the legion is now, but they are just the military/guard force, eonomically/poltically it is more akin to a protected state. Legion protects, that is the only thing the Empire does and should do, all the laws and politics should be purely local, how is that? The High king swears no fealty to the Emperor, but the empire protects Skyrim.

 

[123]

In order to protect, they have to have dealings with politics. Do you know what the White Gold Concordant is? They're no the bad guys. They're doing things the best they can; They can recover, but making another separate little province, one that will be incredibly weak and spread out, is the worst thing that could happen.

 

[azali100]

What I am suggesting is actually, have a legion in a province and recruit locally, and if you need more, get more from local sources, not grab some from the outside. It may be what the legion is now, but they are just the military/guard force, eonomically/poltically it is more akin to a protected state. Legion protects, that is the only thing the Empire does and should do, all the laws and politics should be purely local, how is that? The High king swears no fealty to the Emperor, but the empire protects Skyrim.

Then it isn't an Empire and the title of Emperor becomes an empty one. Why would the Empire protect Skyrim if the king doesn't swear fealty. That's the point of an Empire!

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

NO, DON'T YOU GET IT? CENTRALIZED MILITARY IS THE ONLY WAY TO DEFEAT THE ALDMERI DOMINION. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MASSIVE, RUTHLESS, AND STRATEGIC THE DOMINION IS. THEY AREN'T GOING TO BE BROUGHT DOWN BY A BUNCH OF NORDS IN LIGHT ARMOR CHARGING WITH TWO HANDED WEAPONS SCREAMING ABOUT HONOR.

I'm not saying a single empire couldn't work, but a unified and diverse force of independent provinces sound...well sound. In Dragon Age Origins, the Warden defeated a Blight in record time by telling individual powers to get their asses in gear and focuse on the real problem. That, and a lot of favors. Point is, teamwork can help.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

sooo.....what your saying is....theirs no hope? aaahhhhhh

Of course there's hope! Eventually, the races of Nirn will get their heads out of their asses and do something right. And even if the Dominion won, it didn't exactly last the first time.

 

[Mr1cammando]

What I am suggesting is actually, have a legion in a province and recruit locally, and if you need more, get more from local sources, not grab some from the outside. It may be what the legion is now, but they are just the military/guard force, eonomically/poltically it is more akin to a protected state. Legion protects, that is the only thing the Empire does and should do, all the laws and politics should be purely local, how is that? The High king swears no fealty to the Emperor, but the empire protects Skyrim.

It's kinda clear you're just pulling this out of your ass.

"THEY DISAGREE, TIME TO MAKE A RUSHED REBUTTAL BASED OFF OF A FLAWED IDEA"