Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[123]

With the Dragonborns help the Aldmeri Dominion can kiss their government goodbye because their about go extinct. With the Dragonborn becoming friends with the dragons, Paarthurnax and Durnehviir, and knowing how to communicate with the wild beasts (Animal Allegiance) not only the Thalmor have to worry about dragons attacking them, but also bears, spiders, mammoths and so on. Lets not mention how the Dragonborn can also manipulate the weather by their voice, and call up from the gods to produce an electrical storm.

If the Dragonborn sides with the Empire then the Empire will win the war against the Thalmor... If the Dragonbrn sides with the Stormcloaks then the Stormcloaks will win the fight. It's not all that difficult, really.

Wait, are you SERIOUS?

The entire point of the new order of Dragons is that they aren't killers. They aren't going to just resort to their own ways and wipe out an entire race because the Dragonborn wants them to. For one thing, they wouldn't even be able to; Dragons aren't invincible. And like I just said, they wouldn't have any part in it.

The Aldmeri Dominion isn't threatened by bandits and bears. Look at a political map of the 4th era. The Dragonborn can be killed just like everybody else can. Summoning a lightning storm will kill, but you aren't going to destroy the Dominion.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

One last thing... If the Dragonborn sides with the Aldmeri Dominion then the Thalmor will win the war against both the Empire, and the Stormcloaks... and will be the rightful new rulers of Tamriel.

Uh, just one thing. Usually an army is involved. I don't know about you, but I don't think even the Dovahkiin is enough to tip the balance all by him/her self. I think independent Skyrim working with the rest of Tamriel is just as good as one Empire. It's all about unity.

 

[123]

Uh, just one thing. Usually an army is involved. I don't know about you, but I don't think even the Dovahkiin is enough to tip the balance all by him/her self. I think independent Skyrim working with the rest of Tamriel is just as good as one Empire. It's all about unity.

Except unity won't be reached. If the Stormcloaks win, then General Tullius is killed, and the Empire loses all control over Skyrim. They will more than likely say 'fluff you' and leave Skyrim alone while it gets invaded.

Hammerfell will help Skyrim, and they'll successfully DEFEND themselves, depending on if the Dominion does a full on invasion or just harasses them. Argonia will never help the Stormcloaks, and Valenwood and Elsweyr are loyal to the Dominion.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

Except unity won't be reached. If the Stormcloaks win, then General Tullius is killed, and the Empire loses all control over Skyrim. They will more than likely say 'fu** you' and leave Skyrim alone while it gets invaded.

Hammerfell will help Skyrim, and they'll successfully DEFEND themselves, depending on if the Dominion does a full on invasion or just harasses them. Argonia will never help the Stormcloaks, and Valenwood and Elsweyr are loyal to the Dominion.

That may be the case, but I have something you seem to be lacking. Something the Nords value enough to start the civil war in the first place. Faith. I refuse to accept that all free races can't unite, at least to defeat the Dominion. If you give up on an idea like that, then it becomes impossible.

 

[123]

It's not a lack of faith, it's thinking rationally. It isn't worth risking the complete enslavement of humanity because you have 'faith' and 'honor' to think about. Segregating a race of people and then begging them to help your own race survive is a joke. They won't help you. Why should Argonia help Skyrim? Well, they were segregated by the High King, they aren't at risk from the Dominion, and they have there own conquest in Morrowind to think about.

Nobody's going to help a nation that bullies other races and overthrows its leaders and then begs them for assistance.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

It's not a lack of faith, it's thinking rationally. It isn't worth risking the complete enslavement of humanity because you have 'faith' and 'honor' to think about..

And risking complete enslavement isn't worth not playing nice. Even other elves suffer under the Dominion. Is it so hard to believe that, no matter what else, they must be stopped?

 

[Raijin]

Wait, are you SERIOUS?

The entire point of the new order of Dragons is that they aren't killers. They aren't going to just resort to their own ways and wipe out an entire race because the Dragonborn wants them to. For one thing, they wouldn't even be able to; Dragons aren't invincible. And like I just said, they wouldn't have any part in it.

The Aldmeri Dominion isn't threatened by bandits and bears. Look at a political map of the 4th era. The Dragonborn can be killed just like everybody else can. Summoning a lightning storm will kill, but you aren't going to destroy the Dominion.

The real question is... are you SERIOUS? After the Dragonborn defeated Alduin Odahviing (The dragon that I forgot to mention above) flew down to greet you, and went on by saying that if you need help in future battles to call out his name. Same goes for Durnehviir who is more than happy to give the dragonborn a lending hand. It's better than to sit around for eternity in the soul cairn doing nothing. As far as our favorite dragon, Paarthurnax, he said it himself after you told him that the blades wants him dead "Dov wahlaan fah rel. We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not? I can be trusted. I know this. But they do not. Onikaan ni ov dovah. It is always wise to mistrust a dovah. I have overcome my nature only through meditation and long study of the Way of the Voice. No day goes by where I am not tempted to return to my inborn nature. Zin krif horvut se suleyk. What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

Yes the Dragonborn can be killed... but this is game settings were talking about here. you are in control of the dragonborn. He/She isn't some NPC. You are stronger than the A.D and depending on which team you play on will certainly win.

If this was some book were taking about I would agreed... but this is game settings.

 

[Raijin]

Uh, just one thing. Usually an army is involved. I don't know about you, but I don't think even the Dovahkiin is enough to tip the balance all by him/her self. I think independent Skyrim working with the rest of Tamriel is just as good as one Empire. It's all about unity.

Of course the Dovahkiin can't do it alone. That's why he has connections. The Dragonborn has connections with the thieves guild, The companions, The college of winterhold and not but least the Dark Brotherhood. It's safe to say that the Dragonborn has his/her own army.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

No one person is stronger than an army. Not even the Dovahkiin. Now, he'd probably be excellent for high priority missions, but, tens of thousands of magic blasting elves on a battlefield? Anyone would be screwed. The fact is, the more people on your side, the easier a fight is.

 

[Raijin]

No one person is stronger than an army. Not even the Dovahkiin. Now, he'd probably be excellent for high priority missions, but, tens of thousands of magic blasting elves on a battlefield? Anyone would be screwed. The fact is, the more people on your side, the easier a fight is.

Being the leader of the The Thieves Guild; being the listener for the Dark BrotherHood; being the Harbinger for the Companions, and being the archmage of the college of winterhold has it's advantages you know

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

Being the leader of the The Thieves Guild; being the listener for the Dark BrotherHood; being the Harbinger for the Companions, and being the archmage of the college of winterhold has it's advantages you know

It's an army. If they detect you, I'd give Dovahkiin 300 kills at most before they do a Zerg rush on him/her.

 

[123]

The real question is... are you SERIOUS? After the Dragonborn defeated Alduin Odahviing (The dragon that I forgot to mention above) flew down to greet you, and went on by saying that if you need help in future battles to call out his name. Same goes for Durnehviir who is more than happy to give the dragonborn a lending hand. It's better than to sit around for eternity in the soul cairn doing nothing. As far as our favorite dragon, Paarthurnax, he said it himself after you told him that the blades wants him dead "Dov wahlaan fah rel. We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not? I can be trusted. I know this. But they do not. Onikaan ni ov dovah. It is always wise to mistrust a dovah. I have overcome my nature only through meditation and long study of the Way of the Voice. No day goes by where I am not tempted to return to my inborn nature. Zin krif horvut se suleyk. What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

Yes the Dragonborn can be killed... but this is game settings were talking about here. you are in control of the dragonborn. He/She isn't some NPC. You are stronger than the A.D and depending on which team you play on will certainly win.

If this was some book were taking about I would agreed... but this is game settings.

It means the dragons will come to the Dovahkiin's individual aid, not fight an entire war for them. The whole purpose of the good dragons is that they don't meddle with mortals anymore, and they don't burn down entire villages. It doesn't matter if another mortal wants them to. They wouldn't help.

Also, the Dragonborn can easily die in the game settings. He'd need more than a few small factions in Skyrim to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion, if that's what you're insinuating. It's 3 provinces of highly trained and civilized people, and they are not going to be destroyed by the Dragonborn, a few hundred soldiers, and several dragons. As much unity as possible is what is required to do so, and this can only happen if the Empire remains as large as it can.

And risking complete enslavement isn't worth not playing nice. Even other elves suffer under the Dominion. Is it so hard to believe that, no matter what else, they must be stopped?

I think you're missing the point here. The Dominion can't be stopped on faith. Every argument I've made in this thread is all about stopping the Dominion. You have no idea how big it is. You can't just storm one hold and then win like you can in Skyrim. The Stormcloaks are racists, or at least their leader is, meaning he's already solidifying the inevitable dislike and hatred from Argonians, Dark Elves, and other pockets of Elven resistance.

That being said, I am nowhere trying to say the Dominion shouldn't be stopped. I'm saying the notion that the Stormcloaks can somehow muster enough power and 'unite' all of Tamriel and defeat them is delusional. Argonia won't help, Valenwood and Elsweyr can't help, High Rock and Cyrodiil will probably refuse to help, and Hammerfell isn't enough.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

That's not what I was suggesting. But if you don't believe that the provinces can unite, and that the Dominion can be defeated, then why bother? Every action starts with an idea, and every idea is fueled by belief. If the people of Tamriel don't believe they can unite, it's impossible.

 

[123]

I JUST said that the Dominion can be defeated. All I said was you CAN'T UNITE WITH THE STORMCLOAKS.

Here's a detailed list of reasons why the Stormcloaks can't unite with anyone other than Hammerfell:

1. Argonia is safe from the Dominion, and they don't have any quarrels with them yet, so no reason to waste men, resources, etc. They also have their own political affairs going on.

2. The Empire tried to protect Skyrim and they killed the General and cast them out. If they aren't in danger, why help an ungrateful province that overthrew them?

3. Most of the races would be treated poorly under the Stormcloak regime, if not cast out entirely. Why on Earth would you help a group of humans defend themselves from slavery when they themselves segregated you and treated you horribly?

You don't need to get all philosophical and talk about hope and ambition. You can't unite a bunch of divided people, half of which hate you for treating them like scum, with your 'faith.' If the Empire wanted, I bet they could keep a shaky peace with the Dominion for a long time. They tried to help Skyrim, and Ulfric and his 'faith' and 'hope' told them they didn't want any help. And they won't get any.

Winning the second Great War will NOT be about belief. The outcome ultimately is determined by what happens in Skyrim right now. The longer the Empire holds together, the less divided Tamriel is, and the more fighting forces they have. If you decide to plops in the face of your protectors and tell them you hate them, don't expect them to come riding in to save your asses when the Elves who are smarter than you are on your doorstep.

 

[Janus3003]

Theoretically, would the Aldmeri Dominion ever be overthrown from the inside out?

That could make for an interesting TES game set on Summerset Isle. Join the AD or try to destroy it from within.

 

[Jeremius]

Winning the second Great War will NOT be about belief. The outcome ultimately is determined by what happens in Skyrim right now. The longer the Empire holds together, the less divided Tamriel is, and the more fighting forces they have. If you decide to pl*** in the face of your protectors and tell them you hate them, don't expect them to come riding in to save your asses when the Elves who are smarter than you are on your doorstep.

Let's look at the stats right now, with Skyrim as part of the empire

AD:
High Elf-These guys/gals are the masters of Magicka. It is actually tough to fight when an Altmer shoots a magical ice spike through your chest.
Wood elf-The best Archers in all of Tamriel. They could easily ambush you and kill you before you know it.
Khajit-Cat people are good at stealth and assassinations, enough said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mede Empire:
Imperial-good fighters, but better diplomats and merchants, not very helpful
Nord-Great warrior, but useless against a mage that does not use frost, especially multiple ones
Breton-Second best mage race, but still outclassed by the Altmer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neutral:
Dark Elf-They may just join the Dominion after the treatment in windhelm regardless of how they are treated at the time, especially if the Dominion offers to give them total control over the Argonians again.
Orc-they may still side with the Empire, but I doubt their berserk rage will save them form being overwhelmed by magic.
Redguard-They still have that treaty of theirs, why would they help?

any questions?

 

[azali100]

Being the leader of the The Thieves Guild; being the listener for the Dark BrotherHood; being the Harbinger for the Companions, and being the archmage of the college of winterhold has it's advantages you know

I'd like to point out that lore wise the Dragonborn is not Harbringer of the Companians, Archmage of the College, Listner of the Brotherhood, Leader of the Theives Guild, Legate/Stormblade, or Champion of any Daedra. He is the Dragonborn only. The other quest lines were still fulfilled, but not by the Dragonborn.

 

[Jeremius]

I'd like to point out that lore wise the Dragonborn is not Harbringer of the Companians, Archmage of the College, Listner of the Brotherhood, Leader of the Theives Guild, Legate/Stormblade, or Champion of any Daedra. He is the Dragonborn only. The other quest lines were still fulfilled, but not by the Dragonborn.

I did not know that. But this seems a tad bit of the general topic of the thread, which is about Stormcloaks and Imperials.

 

[Dagmar]

...After the Dragonborn defeated Alduin Odahviing (The dragon that I forgot to mention above) flew down to greet you, and went on by saying that if you need help in future battles to call out his name. Same goes for Durnehviir who is more than happy to give the dragonborn a lending hand. It's better than to sit around for eternity in the soul cairn doing nothing.

2 Dragons aren't even going to make a dent in the Aldmeri Dominion, especially when one is so weak that a small Thalmor Justiciar patrol can kill him. The advantage of having one strong Dragon and one weak one against the armies of an entire nation state is slightly greater than none. It's not as if the two of them are even remotely equivalent to Numidium.

... but this is game settings were talking about here. you are in control of the dragonborn. He/She isn't some NPC. You are stronger than the A.D and depending on which team you play on will certainly win.

If this was some book were taking about I would agreed... but this is game settings.

None of what you concluded follows from what you've stated. It's totally irrelevant that you're not an NPC. It doesn't make you stronger than the Aldmeri Dominion and it by no means makes any faction you support the guaranteed victor in a war. Wulfarth was Dragonborn but when Shor resurrected him to lead an army of Nords into Morrowind to reclaim Shor's heart, they were defeated by the Chimer and Dunmer in Morrowind at the Red Mountain and Vivec literally blasted the Dragonborn into Hell.

It's not as if a hypothetical campaign against the Dominion is a DLC which is why saying that game settings determine the outcome makes no sense. The lore makes it very clear that having a Dragonborn by your side by no means guarantees victory in a war.

 

[Scotty Piffin']

I made an older male nord last night modeled after my grandpa lmao, probably will be the character I playthrough with the Stormcloaks.