Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Gothic90]

One thing I'm going to add is that the situation after a Stormcloaks victory is not that bad.

First it's hella better than the civil war never ends.

The plus side is that Thalmor justicars will be removed from Skyrim. The civil war is more than religious debate; Thalmor justicars drag people out legally in the middle of the night. The problem here is that many nords won't change their religious view, and are in danger of being killed. The presence of Justicars weakens Skyrim through killing, spying and terrorizing.

If Thalmor wants to attack Skyrim (after Stormcloaks victory), problem is Skyrim is very far away, and it is surrounded by High Rock, Cyrodiil and Hammerfell and is very difficult to hold. It makes little sense for them to start with Skyrim. They could start with Cyrodiil, but they lack an excuse to start the war, after all the empire isn't violating WGC; secession is, well, secession.

The best case imo would be after Stormcloak victory, Skyrim and Cyrodiil forms an alliance should AD invades Cyrodiil. On one hand, Stormcloaks may think that the empire is dying and too weak for them to bother, but on the other hand they still hate Thalmor, Thalmor is their common enemy and it doesn't take a genius to see that if Thalmor is stopped in Cyrodiil, Skyrim is a lot safer. An alliance is still possible. Alliance after secession also has been in history, other literature and video games before.

On the other hand, if Thalmor invades Cyrodiil after an Imperial victory, Justicars are still in Skyrim, then nords will have spend effort to clear them out before helping Cyrodiil once the war breaks out, or risk getting their homes burnt and Cyrodiil getting flanked from the north. Thing is, in the Great War the empire ordered all forces to help the Imperial city when it is threatened, regardless of the situation of the province. An imperial commander disobeyed the order to save Hammerfell. It probably would take the same for Skyrim.

The downside, of course, is that it is possible that Stormcloaks refuse to ally with the empire: seeing them as too weak, and AD invades Cyrodiil, and then the empire is really in trouble.

 

[DrunkenMage]

One thing I'm going to add is that the situation after a Stormcloaks victory is not that bad.

First it's hella better than the civil war never ends.

The plus side is that Thalmor justicars will be removed from Skyrim. The civil war is more than religious debate; Thalmor justicars drag people out legally in the middle of the night. The problem here is that many nords won't change their religious view, and are in danger of being killed. The presence of Justicars weakens Skyrim through killing, spying and terrorizing.

If Thalmor wants to attack Skyrim (after Stormcloaks victory), problem is Skyrim is very far away, and it is surrounded by High Rock, Cyrodiil and Hammerfell and is very difficult to hold. It makes little sense for them to start with Skyrim. They could start with Cyrodiil, but they lack an excuse to start the war, after all the empire isn't violating WGC; secession is, well, secession.

The best case imo would be after Stormcloak victory, Skyrim and Cyrodiil forms an alliance should AD invades Cyrodiil. On one hand, Stormcloaks may think that the empire is dying and too weak for them to bother, but on the other hand they still hate Thalmor, Thalmor is their common enemy and it doesn't take a genius to see that if Thalmor is stopped in Cyrodiil, Skyrim is a lot safer. An alliance is still possible. Alliance after secession also has been in history, other literature and video games before.

On the other hand, if Thalmor invades Cyrodiil after an Imperial victory, Justicars are still in Skyrim, then nords will have spend effort to clear them out before helping Cyrodiil once the war breaks out, or risk getting their homes burnt and Cyrodiil getting flanked from the north. Thing is, in the Great War the empire ordered all forces to help the Imperial city when it is threatened, regardless of the situation of the province. An imperial commander disobeyed the order to save Hammerfell. It probably would take the same for Skyrim.

The downside, of course, is that it is possible that Stormcloaks refuse to ally with the empire: seeing them as too weak, and AD invades Cyrodiil, and then the empire is really in trouble.

Aldmeri Dominion won't invade Cyrodiil, the Empire will be invading the Aldmeri Dominion, attacking Valenwood first, nearly all of the Legions are sitting on the Dominion's border preparing for the next war, my guess is the Empire will be on the offensive. Even if the Dominion attacked first, they won't get very far since they'll be facing all of the Legions, who this time around are prepared for battle. The Dominion's large success during the war was their surprise attack from Elsweyr bypassing the Legion defenses on Valenwood and the fact the Empire was unprepared, they only had a few days before the war started.

"Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes." - General Tullius

The Legions were spread across the provinces so it took years for the Empire to mount a proper counter offensive, which they did during the Battle of the Red Ring which resulted in the complete destruction of the main Aldmeri Army, wiped out to the last man or Mer I should say. So many Stormcloak supporters doubt the Empire's ability to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion saying they lost the Great War, that is false, the Empire was never defeated completely, they almost were and the Aldmeri Dominion thought they were defeated when they took the Imperial City for nearly a year and tried to get Titus Mede II to surrender. So the Empire never truly surrendered, or they would have during the War and Dominion soldiers would be everywhere instead of Imperial soldiers, the Empire just sought peace terms so they could regain their strength.

When I think of the Empire's ability to destroy the Aldmeri Dominion, I just think how the Imperial Legions are still remaining yet every single Aldmeri Dominion soldier within Cyrodiil got wiped out and their Thalmor Lord was kept hanging from the White-Gold Tower for thirty three days.

I don't think the Empire is that weak if they could do that, and make the Thalmor come have a sit down, the fact the Thalmor went into peace terms with the Empire shows a lot, considering they think they are superior to man and that they should rule Tamriel, they were badly weakened during the Great War. The Empire is weaker than it once was, but a weakened Empire defeated a strong Aldmeri Dominion army in Cyrodiil and a smaller Legion force from Decianus' Legions, kept the other Aldmeri Army retreating all across Hammerfell to the Southern region.

General Decianus didn't disobey his orders during the Great War, in Hammerfell he discharged a large number of invalids to keep fighting Lady Arannelya's forces, while he moved south with the rest of his Legions into the Colovian Highlands for the Battle of the Red Ring.

This time around, the Legion is fully mobilized and prepared. I guess when nearly the entire Imperial Army popped up on their door step the Thalmor went "Oh plops"

Skyrim will never ally itself with Cyrodiil, not with Ulfric in charge. He will never join forces with the Empire, nor would he really join forces with anyone. Hammerfell and High Rock do not have good relations with Skyrim, only Cyrodiil was Skyrim's buddy in the Empire, the execution of General Tullius after he had surrendered will harm future relations with the Empire. Besides the Stormcloaks claim they're taking their entire army to the Aldmeri Dominion, that isn't going to happen. They can't reach the Aldmeri Dominion, so they can boast all they want about that because they won't step one foot into Cyrodiil. Ulfric himself wouldn't mess with Cyrodiil, which is funny since he calls the Empire weak and Nords call Imperials Milk-drinkers, but they're afraid of upsetting Cyrodiil.

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now."

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's visiting! The goddamned Emperor! And, as much as I'd like to kill the man myself, we can't risk an all out war with the Empire. We'll bide our time for now..."

He goes on about how weak and dying the Empire is, or is that just some lie he tells his followers and when the chance comes to even kill the Emperor he backs off, unwilling to give a real attack to the Empire and the man he so deeply hates. That is what makes me wonder at the strength of the Empire, all I've heard was how weak and corrupt the Empire is... why are we suddenly afraid of what the Empire will do. The man is all talk when it comes down to the Empire, he won't even mess with it, only bad mouth it.

That also raises another question, if the Empire is so weak and they always surrender. Why are there so many Stormcloak prisoners being escorted around Skyrim? I only came across a few Legion prisoners which was quest related and the only time I have ever seen Legionnaire's held prisoner. I never see Legion soldiers being escorted by three Stormcloaks, I wonder why that is.

 

[Mookie]

Aldmeri Dominion won't invade Cyrodiil, the Empire will be invading the Aldmeri Dominion, attacking Valenwood first, nearly all of the Legions are sitting on the Dominion's border preparing for the next war, my guess is the Empire will be on the offensive. Even if the Dominion attacked first, they won't get very far since they'll be facing all of the Legions, who this time around are prepared for battle. The Dominion's large success during the war was their surprise attack from Elsweyr bypassing the Legion defenses on Valenwood and the fact the Empire was unprepared, they only had a few days before the war started.

"Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes." - General Tullius

The Legions were spread across the provinces so it took years for the Empire to mount a proper counter offensive, which they did during the Battle of the Red Ring which resulted in the complete destruction of the main Aldmeri Army, wiped out to the last man or Mer I should say. So many Stormcloak supporters doubt the Empire's ability to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion saying they lost the Great War, that is false, the Empire was never defeated completely, they almost were and the Aldmeri Dominion thought they were defeated when they took the Imperial City for nearly a year and tried to get Titus Mede II to surrender. So the Empire never truly surrendered, or they would have during the War and Dominion soldiers would be everywhere instead of Imperial soldiers, the Empire just sought peace terms so they could regain their strength.

When I think of the Empire's ability to destroy the Aldmeri Dominion, I just think how the Imperial Legions are still remaining yet every single Aldmeri Dominion soldier within Cyrodiil got wiped out and their Thalmor Lord was kept hanging from the White-Gold Tower for thirty three days.

I don't think the Empire is that weak if they could do that, and make the Thalmor come have a sit down, the fact the Thalmor went into peace terms with the Empire shows a lot, considering they think they are superior to man and that they should rule Tamriel, they were badly weakened during the Great War. The Empire is weaker than it once was, but a weakened Empire defeated a strong Aldmeri Dominion army in Cyrodiil and a smaller Legion force from Decianus' Legions, kept the other Aldmeri Army retreating all across Hammerfell to the Southern region.

General Decianus didn't disobey his orders during the Great War, in Hammerfell he discharged a large number of invalids to keep fighting Lady Arannelya's forces, while he moved south with the rest of his Legions into the Colovian Highlands for the Battle of the Red Ring.

This time around, the Legion is fully mobilized and prepared. I guess when nearly the entire Imperial Army popped up on their door step the Thalmor went "Oh pl***"

Skyrim will never ally itself with Cyrodiil, not with Ulfric in charge. He will never join forces with the Empire, nor would he really join forces with anyone. Hammerfell and High Rock do not have good relations with Skyrim, only Cyrodiil was Skyrim's buddy in the Empire, the execution of General Tullius after he had surrendered will harm future relations with the Empire. Besides the Stormcloaks claim they're taking their entire army to the Aldmeri Dominion, that isn't going to happen. They can't reach the Aldmeri Dominion, so they can boast all they want about that because they won't step one foot into Cyrodiil. Ulfric himself wouldn't mess with Cyrodiil, which is funny since he calls the Empire weak and Nords call Imperials Milk-drinkers, but they're afraid of upsetting Cyrodiil.

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now."

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's visiting! The goddamned Emperor! And, as much as I'd like to kill the man myself, we can't risk an all out war with the Empire. We'll bide our time for now..."

He goes on about how weak and dying the Empire is, or is that just some lie he tells his followers and when the chance comes to even kill the Emperor he backs off, unwilling to give a real attack to the Empire and the man he so deeply hates. That is what makes me wonder at the strength of the Empire, all I've heard was how weak and corrupt the Empire is... why are we suddenly afraid of what the Empire will do. The man is all talk when it comes down to the Empire, he won't even mess with it, only bad mouth it.

That also raises another question, if the Empire is so weak and they always surrender. Why are there so many Stormcloak prisoners being escorted around Skyrim? I only came across a few Legion prisoners which was quest related and the only time I have ever seen Legionnaire's held prisoner. I never see Legion soldiers being escorted by three Stormcloaks, I wonder why that is.

I have to ask a few questions:

1. Why are the policies of city of Windhelm taken as policies of entire stormcloak army?
2. Why does it bother you to see dark elves in Windhelm living like that and you are glad to blame Ulfric for that, yet you ignore the imperial suport of enslavement of beast races (Khajit and Argonians)?
3. How do you imagine that empire will be able to prepare for war and hit the AD without them being prepared or knowing about it since the Judiciars are: everywhere and they arent just into religious matter. I dont see them covering eyes when military matters of empire rise up, nor do I see them unable to know matters which arent in their domain (Eye of Magnus...)?
4. Empire lost half its troops and AD lost one of its armies. I dont see how that equals or equates, can you explain that as well?
5. Why would Stormcloaks be unable to aid or ally with empire when they say:

"When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake."

Which means that the Empire is only fought because:

"The Emperor would turn Skyrim into a puppet of the Dominion. I for one would not care to dance for the amusement of those foul elves."
"The Empire would have us become their slaves as they have become slaves to the Thalmor. I will not live as a slave, nor will I die as one."
"What will Skyrim have become if her children submitted to tyranny?"
"That we have forgotten them, this I fear the gods will remember."


6. Why is that fear? They ared doing sensible thing, unlike what you describe them as idiotic barbarians who care only for bloodshed? They are fighting for free Skyrim, not for destruction of Cyrodil.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I have to ask a few questions:

1. Why are the policies of city of Windhelm taken as policies of entire stormcloak army?
2. Why does it bother you to see dark elves in Windhelm living like that and you are glad to blame Ulfric for that, yet you ignore the imperial suport of enslavement of beast races (Khajit and Argonians)?
3. How do you imagine that empire will be able to prepare for war and hit the AD without them being prepared or knowing about it since the Judiciars are: everywhere and they arent just into religious matter. I dont see them covering eyes when military matters of empire rise up, nor do I see them unable to know matters which arent in their domain (Eye of Magnus...)?
4. Empire lost half its troops and AD lost one of its armies. I dont see how that equals or equates, can you explain that as well?
5. Why would Stormcloaks be unable to aid or ally with empire when they say:

"When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake."

Which means that the Empire is only fought because:

"The Emperor would turn Skyrim into a puppet of the Dominion. I for one would not care to dance for the amusement of those foul elves."
"The Empire would have us become their slaves as they have become slaves to the Thalmor. I will not live as a slave, nor will I die as one."
"What will Skyrim have become if her children submitted to tyranny?"
"That we have forgotten them, this I fear the gods will remember."


6. Why is that fear? They ared doing sensible thing, unlike what you describe them as idiotic barbarians who care only for bloodshed? They are fighting for free Skyrim, not for destruction of Cyrodil.

1. Policies of Windhelm is by Ulfric's hand, being he is the Jarl and also the Leader of the Stormcloaks his policies are that of his army, not necessarily the policies of other Jarls, but the Stormcloak Army answers to Ulfric, they swear an oath to Ulfric not Skyrim and the other Jarls. Windhelm also becomes the capital of Skyrim once more if Ulfric becomes High King, which means it's policies will be what Skyrim is seen as by other Provinces.

2. Racial Segregation as a law is something that should bother everyone, before you go on about space and housing, this is law. If there was areas for houses they still wouldn't be allowed to live there due to the law which is the racial segregation policy on Dunmer and also Argonians who are forced to live outside of the walls under a single roof. Imperials if you mean race? Have never supported slavery, they were once slaves themselves and when the Third Empire was formed Slavery was banned across all of Tamriel with the exception of Morrowind which was protected by a treaty that Tiber Septim wrote up. Though for those who have played Morrowind would remember that escape slaves would flee to the Argonian Embassy within Ebonheart which was the seat of Imperial authority. The Empire never supported slavery but they didn't stop it either, Imperial Authority was never actually very high within Morrowind due to how the Dunmer generally hated the Empire, with the exception of House Hlaalu and King Hlaalu Helseth who had all but wiped out slavery except in the very remote parts of Morrowind.

3. The Thalmor do not have all access, they do have limited powers in the treaty. With the Thalmor Agents within the Empire there aren't that many of them, it isn't like there are six billion Thalmor at every house. They maintain an Embassy within each province of the Empire, now they do not have all access to all things Military and the Empire suspects the Thalmor are up to something so they would extra careful on things they say, political wise they make an appearance but the single flaw they have is they can just rounded up and executed, send their heads to Alinor with an ultimatum of the Empire. The Empire isn't dumb enough to attack while there are enemies in their borders, the first to be killed would logically be the Thalmor Agents. The Empire doesn't need to surprise attack the Aldmeri Dominion either, the Empire does have highly trained armies. The Eye of Magnus was hidden for thousands of years, not even the Mages knew what they had found. The College of Winterhold is not under Imperial policy like the Synod or College of Whispers, they are independent, and the Thalmor were stopped. If the eye was never found chances are that Thalmor wouldn't of even done anything, and ending the world isn't exactly a smart thing to do, he went power tripping. The only people who knew what it was was the Psijic Order from Artaeum.

4. The Empire had two armies for most of the war, until the Battle of the Red Ring when the Nord Legions arrived. A Legion if going off Roman Legions has around 5000 soldiers, the Aldmeri Dominion lost an entire army and had their other army in retreat across Hammerfell taking heavy losses. Now a lot of the wounded were from the early surprise attacks which flanked the Imperial forces hitting them from behind. The Hammerfell Legions were also pushed back across the desert known as the march of thirst, many would of died from that. Now it isn't said that their soldiers were killed, only that they didn't have over half their forces remaining, that would be for combat action and an arrow to the leg would make a soldier not be able to keep going for several weeks. So many soldiers were wounded, which if you hear many people who fought in the Great War they tell you they were wounded, they're still alive just they wouldn't of been able to fight on until they had recovered. Now what that equals is since the Dominion Army in Cyrodiil couldn't retreat during the Battle of the Red Ring since they were blocked by the shield wall of Nord Legionnaires, they were killed to the last. The Empire didn't lose an entire army, they only heavy losses were two Legions wiped out and the Eighth Legion with barely any one left from the Sack of the Imperial City.

5. They believe the Empire is weak and dying therefor unable to rule, they aren't suddenly going to be peaceful towards Cyrodiil and the Empire, the killing of Tullius sealed that fate, Ulfric doesn't seek to aid anyone, he's got it in his mind that he'll be leading Tamriel, so I'm sure the "With us or Against us" will come up again to other Provinces. "For it will be Skyrim that shall lead Tamriel in those dark days, when the fate of the world is finally determined." - Ulfric


"I'll fight the entire Legion myself if they dare show their faces here." Galmar
"My hatred for the Empire is exceeded only by my hatred for their witch-elf puppet-masters." Galmar
"Not this Empire. The world's better without it." Galmar
"No. I will have no part of any such Empire. And I will gladly gut anyone who says otherwise." Galmar

Those milk drinkers? Might as well be elves. Think they're better than us." - Galmar about High Rock and Bretons.

"The goddamned Emperor! And, as much as I'd like to kill the man myself" Ulfric

Who will Ulfric ally himself with? He wants songs and stories, so you either join him or don't. He won't ever ask for help, because he can't afford to look weak. Who will join him? He's charged with High Treason and will be executed if he steps foot within Cyrodiil or High Rock. Hammerfell doesn't really like Skyrim, Morrowind hates them. It's not really a question as to why they are unable, it's because no one likes Skyrim, now especially due to their xenophobic ways and racial segregation in their soon to be Capital City when Ulfric becomes High King. What is that going to say to the other races?

6. Yes of course the sensible thing, sacking two Nordic cities, killing many of their kinsman all to push out an Auxiliary Legion Garrison and a couple of Thalmor Agents. If they're willing to do that to kick out a small amount of Thalmor, and they had trouble fighting Auxiliary Legionnaires, what the hell are they going to do when they face trained Dominion Soldiers, that pretty Stormcloak outfit isn't going to save them fire a fireball or by arrows from Bosmer soldiers. They lack Battle Mages to fight the Dominion, battle mages come in handy. Though the Nords no longer like magic so they're lacking in that department. If Ulfric wasn't the High King then there would be a good chance for Skyrim, the man only cares about songs and stories even Galmar gets irritated at that about him. Ulfric probably once was a good person, Rikke seems to mention that. The Thalmor broke Ulfric, they remade him what he is. He's some failed Thalmor experiment and he's a shell of who he once was.

There is still this line in his dossier, After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset. The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.

Yes he became dormant but he still did stuff for them when they made contact until the Markarth Incident with him becoming uncooperative to direct contact, now some believe he didn't know he was doing or being used etc. If he didn't know he was doing something why was he suddenly being uncooperative to direct contact, why this sudden feeling of change. Unless he knew it was the Thalmor in the first place.

 

[Mookie]

1. Policies of Windhelm is by Ulfric's hand, being he is the Jarl and also the Leader of the Stormcloaks his policies are that of his army, not necessarily the policies of other Jarls, but the Stormcloak Army answers to Ulfric, they swear an oath to Ulfric not Skyrim and the other Jarls. Windhelm also becomes the capital of Skyrim once more if Ulfric becomes High King, which means it's policies will be what Skyrim is seen as by other Provinces.

2. Racial Segregation as a law is something that should bother everyone, before you go on about space and housing, this is law. If there was areas for houses they still wouldn't be allowed to live there due to the law which is the racial segregation policy on Dunmer and also Argonians who are forced to live outside of the walls under a single roof. Imperials if you mean race? Have never supported slavery, they were once slaves themselves and when the Third Empire was formed Slavery was banned across all of Tamriel with the exception of Morrowind which was protected by a treaty that Tiber Septim wrote up. Though for those who have played Morrowind would remember that escape slaves would flee to the Argonian Embassy within Ebonheart which was the seat of Imperial authority. The Empire never supported slavery but they didn't stop it either, Imperial Authority was never actually very high within Morrowind due to how the Dunmer generally hated the Empire, with the exception of House Hlaalu and King Hlaalu Helseth who had all but wiped out slavery except in the very remote parts of Morrowind.

3. The Thalmor do not have all access, they do have limited powers in the treaty. With the Thalmor Agents within the Empire there aren't that many of them, it isn't like there are six billion Thalmor at every house. They maintain an Embassy within each province of the Empire, now they do not have all access to all things Military and the Empire suspects the Thalmor are up to something so they would extra careful on things they say, political wise they make an appearance but the single flaw they have is they can just rounded up and executed, send their heads to Alinor with an ultimatum of the Empire. The Empire isn't dumb enough to attack while there are enemies in their borders, the to be killed would logically be the Thalmor Agents. The Empire doesn't need to surprise attack the Aldmeri Dominion either, the Empire does have highly trained armies. The Eye of Magnus was hidden for thousands of years, not even the Mages knew what they had found. The College of Winterhold is not under Imperial policy like the Synod or College of Whispers, they are independent, and the Thalmor were stopped. If the eye was never found chances are that Thalmor wouldn't of even done anything, and ending the world isn't exactly a smart thing to do, he went power tripping. The only people who knew what it was was the Psijic Order from Artaeum.

4. The Empire two armies for most of the war, until the Battle of the Red Ring when the Nord Legions arrived. A Legion if going off Roman Legions has around 5000 soldiers, the Aldmeri Dominion lost an entire army and had their other army in retreat across Hammerfell taking heavy losses. Now a lot of the wounded were from the early surprise attacks which flanked the Imperial forces hitting them from behind. The Hammerfell Legions were also pushed back across the desert known as the march of thirst, many would of died from that. Now it isn't said that their soldiers were killed, only that they didn't have over half their forces remaining, that would be for combat action and an arrow to the leg would make a soldier not be able to keep going for several weeks. So many soldiers were wounded, which if you hear many people who fought in the Great War they tell you they were wounded, they're still alive just they wouldn't of been able to fight on until they had recovered. Now what that equals is since the Dominion Army in Cyrodiil couldn't retreat during the Battle of the Red Ring since they were blocked by the shield wall of Nord Legionnaires, they were killed to the last. The Empire didn't lose an entire army, they only heavy losses were two Legions wiped out and the Eighth Legion with barely any one left from the Sack of the Imperial City.

5. They believe the Empire is weak and dying therefor unable to rule, they aren't suddenly going to be peaceful towards Cyrodiil and the Empire, the killing of Tullius sealed that fate, Ulfric doesn't seek to aid anyone, he's got it in his mind that he'll be leading Tamriel, so I'm sure the "With us or Against us" will come up again to other Provinces. "For it will be Skyrim that shall lead Tamriel in those dark days, when the fate of the world is finally determined." - Ulfric


"I'll fight the entire Legion myself if they dare show their faces here." Galmar
"My hatred for the Empire is exceeded only by my hatred for their witch-elf puppet-masters." Galmar
"Not this Empire. The world's better without it." Galmar
"No. I will have no part of any such Empire. And I will gladly gut anyone who says otherwise." Galmar

Those milk drinkers? Might as well be elves. Think they're better than us." - Galmar about High Rock and Bretons.

"The goddamned Emperor! And, as much as I'd like to kill the man myself" Ulfric

Who will Ulfric ally himself with? He wants songs and stories, so you either join him or don't. He won't ever ask for help, because he can't afford to look weak. Who will join him? He's charged with High Treason and will be executed if he steps foot within Cyrodiil or High Rock. Hammerfell doesn't really like Skyrim, Morrowind hates them. It's not really a question as to why they are unable, it's because no one likes Skyrim, now especially due to their xenophobic ways and racial segregation in their soon to be Capital City when Ulfric becomes High King. What is that going to say to the other races?

6. Yes of course the sensible thing, sacking two Nordic cities, killing many of their kinsman all to push out an Auxiliary Legion Garrison and a couple of Thalmor Agents. If they're willing to do that to kick out a small amount of Thalmor, and they had trouble fighting Auxiliary Legionnaires, what the hell are they going to do when they face trained Dominion Soldiers, that pretty Stormcloak outfit isn't going to save them fire a fireball or by arrows from Bosmer soldiers. They lack Battle Mages to fight the Dominion, battle mages come in handy. Though the Nords no longer like magic so they're lacking in that department. If Ulfric wasn't the High King then there would be a good chance for Skyrim, the man only cares about songs and stories even Galmar gets irritated at that about him. Ulfric probably once was a good person, Rikke seems to mention that. The Thalmor broke Ulfric, they remade him what he is. He's some failed Thalmor experiment and he's a shell of who he once was.

There is still this line in his dossier, After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset. The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.

Yes he became dormant but he still did stuff for them when they made contact until the Markarth Incident with him becoming uncooperative to direct contact, now some believe he didn't know he was doing or being used etc. If he didn't know he was doing something why was he suddenly being uncooperative to direct contact, why this sudden feeling of change. Unless he knew it was the Thalmor in the first place.

If it was a law how long is it in place?
Dunmers arived 200 years ago I guess. So they had an awesome life of equality love and bussiness success untill Ulfric showed up. Then the Dunmer houses shrank, the city itself shrank and all the dunmer were sucked in into gray quarter. I dont see that hapening. If it is a law, then it predates ulfric.

There is a reason the empire doesnt use racism as an excuse to attack Ulfric, because they are the same. Khajits arent allowed in the city as well. And argonians are disliked, some would actualy like to shorten them by a head.
Also, and you cant refute this. Skyrim is homeland of the Nords. How strange can it be that Nords, who want free Skyrim, which in turn is homeland of the Nords are treated "better" ?

How much does US have in common with Saudi Arabia? In terms of culture, in terms of freedom, in terms of.. well everything. Trade is the only common ground. Yet US is allied with SA, suports its Royal House... Interests go over feelings. No one has to like someone in order to help him if that helps himself.
If you and another person were locked in a cage with a bear, no matter how much you hate the other person you will still pick up that stick and hit the bear. Because you know that if that person dies you are next.


As for contact still, you need to know terms of subterfuge. Contact can be anything, from just knowing who he is and what he is up to to directing someone to do something.
Vallue and asset can be a wide term, someone can be unknowingly someones asset, someone can be direct. Yet there is no proof of Ulfric knowing anything about that.

Misstreatment and slavery were part of the empire, it grew over it. Bad treatments of elves on the other hand to you seem like chronic illness that cant be cured naturaly. I guess people said that about treatment of black people in US in the 30's,40's,50's yet 50 years later we came a long way. No one cares anymore.

 

[DrunkenMage]

If it was a law how long is it in place?
Dunmers arived 200 years ago I guess. So they had an awesome life of equality love and bussiness success untill Ulfric showed up. Then the Dunmer houses shrank, the city itself shrank and all the dunmer were sucked in into gray quarter. I dont see that hapening. If it is a law, then it predates ulfric.

There is a reason the empire doesnt use racism as an excuse to attack Ulfric, because they are the same. Khajits arent allowed in the city as well. And argonians are disliked, some would actualy like to shorten them by a head.
Also, and you cant refute this. Skyrim is homeland of the Nords. How strange can it be that Nords, who want free Skyrim, which in turn is homeland of the Nords are treated "better" ?

How much does US have in common with Saudi Arabia? In terms of culture, in terms of freedom, in terms of.. well everything. Trade is the only common ground. Yet US is allied with SA, suports its Royal House... Interests go over feelings. No one has to like someone in order to help him if that helps himself.
If you and another person were locked in a cage with a bear, no matter how much you hate the other person you will still pick up that stick and hit the bear. Because you know that if that person dies you are next.


As for contact still, you need to know terms of subterfuge. Contact can be anything, from just knowing who he is and what he is up to to directing someone to do something.
Vallue and asset can be a wide term, someone can be unknowingly someones asset, someone can be direct. Yet there is no proof of Ulfric knowing anything about that.

Misstreatment and slavery were part of the empire, it grew over it. Bad treatments of elves on the other hand to you seem like chronic illness that cant be cured naturaly. I guess people said that about treatment of black people in US in the 30's,40's,50's yet 50 years later we came a long way. No one cares anymore.

It's law by Ulfric's doing, his forefathers were kind to the Dunmer and treated them as equals. That doesn't even make sense, if it's law then it predates Ulfric? He made the law, he is the Jarl of Windhelm.

Khajiit's not allowed in cities is by Nord doing, the Imperials in Cyrodiil can't order them to allow the Khajiit inside the city since the Jarls own the land, it's their land. Would you tell someone to let another in their house, because that person won't allow a certain person inside? Khajiit are allowed inside Imperial cities, Skyrim belongs to the Nords, there are no Imperial Jarls. It doesn't matter what race you are in the Empire, Imperial authority spreads racial equality and an Argonian has actually been on the Elder Council which is the ruling body of the Empire.

It's not about what they don't have in common, Ulfric is blinded by hatred. He doesn't think logically or economically, he hates the Empire with a passion because he couldn't be with his father when he died while Ulfric was in Imperial prison. Ulfric doesn't exactly get over his feelings, his top leaders rule by emotions. That is one of the things the Stormcloak army lacks which is discipline. They are ruled solely by feelings and it'll be an issue later on if they face an Aldmeri Army, since they're ruled by emotion they can easily be made quick to anger and act without reason or care, the Imperial Legions won't charge unless ordered. Keeping Stormcloaks in line is a bit harder.

Yes Skyrim is home to the Nords, but the Stormcloaks aren't all of Skyrim nor do many Nords agree with the Stormcloaks. So saying the Stormcloaks are what the Nords represent is mistaken since it is a Civil war, you're forcing Stormcloak views onto others by violence.

Whatever Ulfric's actions may be, he's unknowingly aiding the Thalmor who seek to weaken the Empire. They seek to destroy the Empire, how is helping them do it faster good for Tamriel?

Mistreatment and Slavery were not a part of the Empire, Imperials were against slavery and it is their Empire. Only groups that have been mentioned to use slavery is Morrowind which was protected by a treaty that the so called great Talos signed, Talos himself sold slaves before he became Emperor and before the Third Empire began. Elsweyr is also mentioned in the novels as a place to sell slaves.

Mistreatment of the wrong elves is what is happening in Windhelm.

 

[Mookie]

It's law by Ulfric's doing, his forefathers were kind to the Dunmer and treated them as equals.

Khajiit's not allowed in cities is by Nord doing, the Imperials in Cyrodiil can't order them to allow the Khajiit inside the city since the Jarls own the land, it's their land. Would you tell someone to let another in their house, because that person won't allow a certain person inside? Khajiit are allowed inside Imperial cities, Skyrim belongs to the Nords, there are no Imperial Jarls. It doesn't matter what race you are in the Empire, Imperial authority spreads racial equality and an Argonian has actually been on the Elder Council which is the ruling body of the Empire.

It's not about what they don't have in common, Ulfric is blinded by hatred. He doesn't think logically or economically, he hates the Empire with a passion because he couldn't be with his father when he died while Ulfric was in Imperial prison. Ulfric doesn't exactly get over his feelings, his top leaders rule by emotions. That is one of the things the Stormcloak army lacks which is discipline. They are ruled solely by feelings and it'll be an issue later on if they face an Aldmeri Army, since they're ruled by emotion they can easily be made quick to anger and act without reason or care, the Imperial Legions won't charge unless ordered. Keeping Stormcloaks in line is a bit harder.

Yes Skyrim is home to the Nords, but the Stormcloaks aren't all of Skyrim nor do many Nords agree with the Stormcloaks. So saying the Stormcloaks are what the Nords represent is mistaken since it is a Civil war, you're forcing Stormcloak views onto others by violence.

Whatever Ulfric's actions may be, he's unknowingly aiding the Thalmor who seek to weaken the Empire. They seek to destroy the Empire, how is helping them do it faster good for Tamriel?

Mistreatment and Slavery were not a part of the Empire, Imperials were against slavery and it is their Empire. Only groups that have been mentioned to use slavery is Morrowind which was protected by a treaty that the so called great Talos signed, Talos himself sold slaves before he became Emperor and before the Third Empire began. Elsweyr is also mentioned in the novels as a place to sell slaves.

Mistreatment of the wrong elves is what is happening in Windhelm.

It's law by Ulfric's doing, his forefathers were kind to the Dunmer and treated them as equals.

Khajiit's not allowed in cities is by Nord doing, the Imperials in Cyrodiil can't order them to allow the Khajiit inside the city since the Jarls own the land, it's their land. Would you tell someone to let another in their house, because that person won't allow a certain person inside? Khajiit are allowed inside Imperial cities, Skyrim belongs to the Nords, there are no Imperial Jarls. It doesn't matter what race you are in the Empire, Imperial authority spreads racial equality and an Argonian has actually been on the Elder Council which is the ruling body of the Empire.

It's not about what they don't have in common, Ulfric is blinded by hatred. He doesn't think logically or economically, he hates the Empire with a passion because he couldn't be with his father when he died while Ulfric was in Imperial prison. Ulfric doesn't exactly get over his feelings, his top leaders rule by emotions. That is one of the things the Stormcloak army lacks which is discipline. They are ruled solely by feelings and it'll be an issue later on if they face an Aldmeri Army, since they're ruled by emotion they can easily be made quick to anger and act without reason or care, the Imperial Legions won't charge unless ordered. Keeping Stormcloaks in line is a bit harder.

Yes Skyrim is home to the Nords, but the Stormcloaks aren't all of Skyrim nor do many Nords agree with the Stormcloaks. So saying the Stormcloaks are what the Nords represent is mistaken since it is a Civil war, you're forcing Stormcloak views onto others by violence.

Whatever Ulfric's actions may be, he's unknowingly aiding the Thalmor who seek to weaken the Empire. They seek to destroy the Empire, how is helping them do it faster good for Tamriel?

Mistreatment and Slavery were not a part of the Empire, Imperials were against slavery and it is their Empire. Only groups that have been mentioned to use slavery is Morrowind which was protected by a treaty that the so called great Talos signed, Talos himself sold slaves before he became Emperor and before the Third Empire began. Elsweyr is also mentioned in the novels as a place to sell slaves.

Mistreatment of the wrong elves is what is happening in Windhelm.

So.... letm e get this straight. Before Ulfric gray quarter didnt exist, nor was it a slum. But the day he arrived it just dilapidated and became slum?
Come on.

He thinks logicaly, quite logicaly because first:
He doesnt attack while wedding is going on
And second, he doesnt wait for a war to start a rebelion, even though a rebelion started during the empires inovlement in war would be 100X more succesfull.


Skyrim is home to the Nords, you cant blame them for that, that has nothing to do with stormcloaks. Americans are priviledged in US above non-americans (non-citizens)
While legal aliens are priviledged over illegal aliens.
Yet no one calls them racist or anything. Its their homeland.

Logical thinking or not, they seem competent to win, are protected by geography and have a charismatic ruler.
Also, which isnt covered but I think is more realistic, they might get Dovakhin on the Throne. Ulfric isnt forever, he participated in great war, which was 30 years ago, which means he is in his 50's at least.
Even if Dovakhin doesnt rule Skyrim, Ulfric will be there for 20 more years and someone new will step in. Someone different.


Most of your oposition is based around Ulfric.

 

[berzum]

even though I am playing a breton on this playthrough, i will side with stormcloaks...I like what they stand for and can show symphathy for them seeing how the country i reside in in the real world lol is being invaded....yeah plus storm cloak have an awsome history and lore pretty dang close to the vikings. valhalla or bust lol

 

[Mookie]

even though I am playing a breton on this playthrough, i will side with stormcloaks...I like what they stand for and can show symphathy for them seeing how the country i reside in in the real world lol is being invaded....yeah plus storm cloak have an awsome history and lore pretty dang close to the vikings. valhalla or bust lol

Welcome
What country are you from ?

 

[Nocte Aeterna]

Well, damn.

Legion, assemble! We have another ne'er-do-well afoot!

 

[Mookie]

Well, damn.

Legion, assemble! We have another ne'er-do-well afoot!

let the man chose. WTH is with this legion bull...

 

[Epic Keith]

So.... letm e get this straight. Before Ulfric gray quarter didnt exist, nor was it a slum. But the day he arrived it just dilapidated and became slum?
Come on.

He thinks logicaly, quite logicaly because first:
He doesnt attack while wedding is going on
And second, he doesnt wait for a war to start a rebelion, even though a rebelion started during the empires inovlement in war would be 100X more succesfull.


Skyrim is home to the Nords, you cant blame them for that, that has nothing to do with stormcloaks. Americans are priviledged in US above non-americans (non-citizens)
While legal aliens are priviledged over illegal aliens.
Yet no one calls them racist or anything. Its their homeland.

Logical thinking or not, they seem competent to win, are protected by geography and have a charismatic ruler.
Also, which isnt covered but I think is more realistic, they might get Dovakhin on the Throne. Ulfric isnt forever, he participated in great war, which was 30 years ago, which means he is in his 50's at least.
Even if Dovakhin doesnt rule Skyrim, Ulfric will be there for 20 more years and someone new will step in. Someone different.


Most of your oposition is based around Ulfric.

He doesn't attack during the wedding or when the Emperor's around because it's royal blood that's going to be split. He's scared plops because if they die, the Empire is going to send their best Legionnaires and veterans to go teach Ulfric a lesson. I'll agree that he's a smartass to think about that.


He didn't attack during the war because he was IN the war (considering that you are talking about The Great War)

They are incompetent to win. Yes they are protected by geography but what about the sea? If the Aldmeri Dominion have a powerful navy then taking SKyrim will be cake. The Stormcloak army is undisciplined and work in guerrilla warfare. The Aldmeri Dominion has an army on par with the Legion, it will be easy to take down a small band of untrained fighters. Plus, the Thalmor operate freely in Skyrim. I bet they know all the secret passages and the geography of skyrim like any other citizen. If the Stormcloaks win the war, Skyrim will be governed by a corrupt, power-loving Jarl who has an army which is exhausted by the battle against the Legion. Many people in Skyrim would not be pleased with the government and are prone to go against it. Some who see the Thalmor as allies, like Maven Black Briar and many of Elenwen's pals at her party can easily be bribed to help the army.

It's all a game of money.

And the last thing people would do is sit the Dragonborn. If Ulfric dies, his heir would take over or a Moot would take place. Galmar would probably seize power since he was the second in command. There's even a chance of another rebellion! Elisif doesn't like Ulfric even after he takes Skyrim. She would definitely try to free Skyrim of the scourge of Ulfric.

 

[Nocte Aeterna]

No, he doesn't choose in this regard. He should know the correct path to take.

 

[Mookie]

He doesn't attack during the wedding or when the Emperor's around because it's royal blood that's going to be split. He's scared pl*** because if they die, the Empire is going to send their best Legionnaires and veterans to go teach Ulfric a lesson. I'll agree that he's a smartass to think about that.


He didn't attack during the war because he was IN the war (considering that you are talking about The Great War)

They are incompetent to win. Yes they are protected by geography but what about the sea? If the Aldmeri Dominion have a powerful navy then taking SKyrim will be cake. The Stormcloak army is undisciplined and work in guerrilla warfare. The Aldmeri Dominion has an army on par with the Legion, it will be easy to take down a small band of untrained fighters. Plus, the Thalmor operate freely in Skyrim. I bet they know all the secret passages and the geography of skyrim like any other citizen. If the Stormcloaks win the war, Skyrim will be governed by a corrupt, power-loving Jarl who has an army which is exhausted by the battle against the Legion. Many people in Skyrim would not be pleased with the government and are prone to go against it. Some who see the Thalmor as allies, like Maven Black Briar and many of Elenwen's pals at her party can easily be bribed to help the army.

It's all a game of money.

And the last thing people would do is sit the Dragonborn. If Ulfric dies, his heir would take over or a Moot would take place. Galmar would probably seize power since he was the second in command. There's even a chance of another rebellion! Elisif doesn't like Ulfric even after he takes Skyrim. She would definitely try to free Skyrim of the scourge of Ulfric.

Empire will send its best
LOL
If he did that empire will be in disaray, God knows what some Legion comander will get in his head, what some corupt politicians will do etc.. The empire would fall if he did that... it would be thrown in dissaray and mayhem.

THE SEA OF GHOSTS - that should say something

 

[Mookie]

No, he doesn't choose in this regard. He should know the correct path to take.

Sir, do you have a moment for our lord Jesus christ?
You just sound like them. Ease up man

 

[Nocte Aeterna]

Sir, do you have a moment for our lord Jesus christ?
You just sound like them. Ease up man

I'm completely kidding.

 

[Mookie]

I'm completely kidding.

I really hope soo.

 

[berzum]

Welcome
What country are you from ?

America....invaded and our gov is corrupted from the inside out

 

[Mookie]

America....invaded and our gov is corrupted from the inside out

I guess a lot of things changed since I was in Mass
Anyways, welcome to Stormcloaks

 

[Nocte Aeterna]

America....invaded and our gov is corrupted from the inside out

I have never seen such a more accurate description of my home country.