Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

Let's not forget Potema either. Crazy woman nearly destroyed the Empire herself.

That was the Civil war I was referring to, with the Wolf Queen. The War of the Red Diamond.

 

[DrunkenMage]

What I would love to know and research myself is who was on Skyrim first. Skyrim is the fatherland of the first humans on Tamriel, but does that mean the Dwarves and Snow Elves were there first? If I remember, as vague as it was that i heard this, that Solsthiem was the Snow Elves last home before their supposed extinction. I'm really hoping for more Lore about the Falmer and Dwemer.

Elves were there first.

 

[Epic Keith]

If a man is paying someone to kill an emperor, he isnt alone in doing that. He has plans, and he is prepared. He probably has backing from some legion comanders, some politicians as well. Not to mention that some other comanders will also use the oportunity to try to advance and even proclaim themselves the emperor.
You are quite the optimist if you believe that it is only Amaund alone who wants emperor dead and is ready for that

If he had backup why did he hole up in an ancient tomb? If he had the support of countless politicians and commanders he would be giving you the contract openly. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Thalmor/Dominion backing him.

The legion wouldnt be in Skyrim, just like they left skyrim to bandits and to fend for itself when cyrodil was threatened. The Skyrim founded the first empire, was part of the second one. This is just the third empire man.
They had 20 years before this in Skyrim, they could have prepared for war with thalmor, now they cant beat Stormcloaks. Or arent interested, which says something.

Oh dear god THE BANDITS!!!! Such a powerful force going to ravage Skyrim while the Legion is off fighting.

Please be realistic. Skyrim is a part of the Empire but these small matters mean are the responsibility for the Hold Jarls. And last time I checked, Skyrim was never threatened by Bandits.

The reason why they are having trouble beating the Stormcloaks because the best Legionnaires are at the border. The Legionnaires in Skyrim are mostly new recruits and less experienced Legionnaires. If the Legionnaires on the border would come to Skyrim, the war would be finished within a week.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Ah yes, he must be hiding knowledge since what he points out refutes things you just make up or base on distortions and misrepresentations about the lore of the game, much like real scientists must be hiding dirty secrets that would disprove Evolution and establish Creationism as a legitimate science.

Here's a newsflash for you, there's no "secret lore" out there being hidden from you by the Imperial Legion Illuminati. Claiming that someone is "hiding" lore is infantile. The lore is an open source available to anyone who is willing to commit time and attention to observing it and learning it. If anyone is too intellectually lazy to do so and instead decides to take incredulous positions by ignoring or distorting lore or by fabricating false lore and gets called out on it and schooled that's no one's fault but their own.

Yes we're not hiding anything... I think he's onto Ordo Legionis, where we go around deleting wiki pages on anything that incriminates the Empire of Tamriel.

We should hide our super secret Colovian signet rings, else we'll be discovered.

 

[Epic Keith]

He did something that was legal. No one tried to stop him until empire steped in and said "damn your customs we are determining who is the high king"
Ulfric killed HK just to prove that and to prove their wretched condition.
He wouldnt consider it, chests of gold are too atractive.
And it was the empire which gave stormcloaks their name. The original name was "the sons of Skyrim"

Yep, kill someone and get the hell out of there. If his 'duel' was legal why did he run? He could have said it was a legal fight. And if Solitude would execute him, it would cause a greater effect on the Nords and Windhelm. More people would come to fight and demand justice for Ulfric.

The Empire isn't here to determine the High King. Ulfric killed HK and then started a rebellion! A rebellion against the Empire. The Empire sees this as an attack to their leadership. If Ulfric killed the High King and just silently sat in Windhelm, the people of Skyrim themselves would have Ulfric killed.

 

[Epic Keith]

He points out a few things, but really dirty ones are kept deep inside

Crap he's on to us. RUN!

 

[DrunkenMage]

 

[Jimmy Carter]

I'd just like to say that the perks from the Imperial side much outweigh the perks of the Stormcloak side. The imperials give the following:

A) Better Jarls
B) The option for light or heavy armour, which is good for your character and your playstyle.
C) The same quests as the Stormcloaks, but, the locations are much easier to get to in comparison to the Stormcloaks
D) Legionnaires are stronger than Stormcloaks. Their armour rating(s) are all superiour, and their weaponry is superiour.

On the roleplaying side:

A) More reason to hate the Empire, considering they now have Skyrim and whatnot.
B) A, realistically, better chance against the Thalmor. (I have actually calculated this. --- And don't say Skyrim can pull off a Hammerfell, because Hammerfell is like 90% desert and 10% guerilla warfare)
C) The Dragonborn, realistically, should fight with the guys who used to be led by Dragonborns and probably will be led by Dragonborns soon enough.
D) Keeps the more popular jarls (Balgruuf and Ravencrone) who you would probably like to keep your character aligned with (Though it does give us Maven Black-Briar, ew, gross. But on the bright side at least no more Ulfric and Korir)
E) The Empire is not really a fascist state. It's not like you still can't massacre the Thalmor and not get bounty on your head (if you do it properly, anyhow - kill all witnesses or sneak attacks or ambushes or w/e)

Stormcloaks give you benefits but let's get real, the Silver-Bloods having Markarth is probably just as equally bad as Maven Black-Briar owning Riften. Ravencrone is a hoss, and no one replaces my Jarl Balgruuf the "Hell Yeah" Greater.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I do like how many Stormcloak supporters say the Empire has had long enough to prepare for war, not being ready in twenty plus years. So their alternative is rebellion and spend at least fifty or even a hundred years building Skyrim back to strength. If you believe Skyrim will be ready in Ulfric's lifetime, that is just wishful thinking, the rest of his life will be spent seeing Skyrim rebuilt, repairing all of their cities back to strength and power, so they can sustain themselves without Imperial assistance or support. It's been a very long time since Skyrim has had to stand on it's own two feet without Cyrodiil Empire aid and chances are Ulfric and the rebel Dragonborn will never see battle against the Aldmeri Dominion.

The real enemy is the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion, at least I know the Legion can reach them and attack them. Skyrim can't, they're isolated and blocked by three provinces who are no longer on friendly terms with Skyrim.

 

[Mookie]

Ah yes, he must be hiding knowledge since what he points out refutes things you just make up or base on distortions and misrepresentations about the lore of the game, much like real scientists must be hiding dirty secrets that would disprove Evolution and establish Creationism as a legitimate science.

Here's a newsflash for you, there's no "secret lore" out there being hidden from you by the Imperial Legion Illuminati. Claiming that someone is "hiding" lore is infantile. The lore is an open source available to anyone who is willing to commit time and attention to observing it and learning it. If anyone is too intellectually lazy to do so and instead decides to take incredulous positions by ignoring or distorting lore or by fabricating false lore and gets called out on it and schooled that's no one's fault but their own.

He sais it himself, that he knows equaly bad things about imperials but doesnt share them since he likes them.

 

[Ivory]

He sais it himself, that he knows equaly bad things about imperials but doesnt share them since he likes them.

I can't even begin to describe my confusion and frustration with this.

 

[DrunkenMage]

​

Ordo Legionis​

So that we may hide lore.​

So that secrets remain deleted.​

So that enemies may never harm us.​

So that the Legion remains untainted. ​

Long live the Empire.​

 

[Epic Keith]

He sais it himself, that he knows equaly bad things about imperials but doesnt share them since he likes them.

 

[Raijin]

lizard mann take sexy picture too

You wonder your kind stays in the deck of Windhelm? Your kind trolls EVERYTHING Even Google Images!

 

[Epic Keith]

Mookie ran off I guess. Now time to fight an old friend!

 

[Gothic90]

I do like how many Stormcloak supporters say the Empire has had long enough to prepare for war, not being ready in twenty plus years. So their alternative is rebellion and spend at least fifty or even a hundred years building Skyrim back to strength. If you believe Skyrim will be ready in Ulfric's lifetime, that is just wishful thinking, the rest of his life will be spent seeing Skyrim rebuilt, repairing all of their cities back to strength and power, so they can sustain themselves without Imperial assistance or support. It's been a very long time since Skyrim has had to stand on it's own two feet without Cyrodiil Empire aid and chances are Ulfric and the rebel Dragonborn will never see battle against the Aldmeri Dominion.

The real enemy is the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion, at least I know the Legion can reach them and attack them. Skyrim can't, they're isolated and blocked by three provinces who are no longer on friendly terms with Skyrim.

The rebellion is already in motion. Sure, the better option would probably be if Ulfric had told Torygg to secede but that is a few years ago. What Dragonborn can do is just to finish the war ASAP, regardless of which side he/she joins or believes in so that damage is minimized.

It's not like after an Imperial victory Skyrim would need drastically less time to rebuild. Cyrodiil would be fully occupied against Thalmor and could not help with the rebuilding effort.

And if Skryim is as weak as you said, it's really bad news for the empire because the backbone of their army would be occupied in Skyrim clearing out Thalmor, and would offer little help in the actual empire thalmor war.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The rebellion is already in motion. Sure, the better option would probably be if Ulfric had told Torygg to secede but that is a few years ago. What Dragonborn can do is just to finish the war ASAP, regardless of which side he/she joins or believes in so that damage is minimized.

It's not like after an Imperial victory Skyrim would need drastically less time to rebuild. Cyrodiil would be fully occupied against Thalmor and could not help with the rebuilding effort.

And if Skryim is as weak as you said, it's really bad news for the empire because the backbone of their army would be occupied in Skyrim clearing out Thalmor, and would offer little help in the actual empire thalmor war.

To raise a large enough force and then training that force to be any threat to the Dominion will take quite awhile, rebuilding Skyrim so it can support itself without the Empire will take even longer. Skyrim can't even reach the Dominion, so the only way to even get there being Stormcloaks would be to build the largest Navy that Skyrim has ever had. Torygg hadn't been on the throne for years, he only recently became the High King. The Markarth incident, occurred several years ago, roughly twenty, which was the birthplace of the Stormcloaks, but not the true rebellion. The Rebellion itself has only been in motion since the death of the High King, when Ulfric raised arms against the Western Holds sparking a Nordic Civil War.

After an Imperial victory, Cyrodiil won't be occupied against the Thalmor, the Imperial Legions are sitting on their border, the Aldmeri Dominion can't do too much as of yet, which is why they're playing their game of chess with the Nords. Their strategy is divide and conquer, has been since the moment they gained power, slowly picking off the Empire one province at a time. Now Skyrim after Empire reunification, will have the aid of two provinces to rebuild, supplies and trade etc. Skyrim after Ulfric's rebellion however isolates Skyrim to where they have to rebuild by themselves, this would take too long. Especially under Ulfric's management, he can't keep his own city in a decent state, let alone the entire province of Skyrim.

Skyrim is weak because they have just been ravaged by civil war, you're not fighting all Imperials from Cyrodiil. Most of the Auxiliary Legionnaires you're fighting are in fact Nords. Locally recruited because Cyrodiil can't send one of the highly trained Legions, because of their current situation being stationed along the Aldmeri Dominion border, preparing for war.

If you're talking about the next outbreak of war, there isn't all that many Thalmor Agents as a whole in Skyrim, with the rebellion having been put down, they will no longer have an excuse for their large Inquisition, since they are using Ulfric as the reason to over enforce the White-Gold Concordat, to send Nords flocking to Ulfric's rebellion. It wouldn't take years of warfare to remove them, the main threat is the Aldmeri Dominion's army. Most Legions are in Cyrodiil currently, a skeleton garrison remains in Skyrim, with very few reinforcements from Cyrodiil, where most of the properly trained are. Skyrim to rebuild, doesn't need the Imperial Legions from Cyrodiil. Soldiers aren't the ones who are repairing the cities and farming the lands, the common citizens of the Empire, would be doing the rebuilding. Some from the Architects Guild will be used in Skyrim to see the cities are in at least a decent state.

What Skyrim is also good for, one of the biggest things it will do during the next war, will be connecting High Rock to Cyrodiil, allowing the Breton Legions and very importantly the Battlemages of the Shadow Legion will get fresh recruits from across three provinces. Battlemages are very important when dealing with a basically Magic using Military. Stormcloaks do not have magic users, Nords don't like magic. That is all fine when they're in the Legion and going into battle with the Shadow Legion alongside them. Stormcloaks alone? A fire ball will cut their charge short.

When it comes down to choice, it's really quite simple. Cyrodiil vs three united provinces of the Aldmeri Dominion, or a united Empire vs the Dominion. Cyrodiil alone can't take on three united provinces, if Skyrim goes independent it will cut the Empire apart and isolate Cyrodiil. Skyrim won't be any use for many years if they're independent through Ulfric's way, there was a peaceful solution. Ulfric wanted war though, he wanted songs, he wanted stories. He also wanted the Throne of Skyrim.

 

[Gearuvagen]

Gods, could you imagine how fast civil war would be over if the Empire was to send just one Centuria of the Shadow Legion to Skyrim? Two maybe three weeks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the dominion has a fairly large navy, so if by some unholy miracle the Bluebellies are able to force the Empire out. The Thalmor could just sail into Windhelm & Solitude pretty much unopposed pretty much crippling the province.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Gods, could you imagine how fast civil war would be over if the Empire was to send just one Centuria of the Shadow Legion to Skyrim? Two maybe three weeks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the dominion has a fairly large navy, so if by some unholy miracle the Bluebellies are able to force the Empire out. The Thalmor could just sail into Windhelm & Solitude pretty much unopposed pretty much crippling the province.

Imperial Battlemages are a force to be reckoned with, the Court Wizard in Dawnstar was one I believe, she talks about it. Fighting Aldmeri soldiers with magic in the Imperial City, how the Aldmeri were torn to pieces and burnt alive by her magic. One Imperial Battlemage can do that, imagine an entire Legion of them.

Nah, they're not that stupid. Sailing from Skyrim to the Dominion or to Skyrim from the Dominion would take months depending on the time of year, so you only get that small window, you're also cut off from reinforcements and supplies for months at a time, while the defenders gain reinforcements in all directions. Only Ulfric would be dumb enough to do that, he only cares for songs and stories, not how many people die so he can become a legend. This is something about him that also irritates Galmar, shown to have anger in his voice when they're facing Tullius.

Galmar: "Just kill him and let's be done with it already."
Ulfric: "Come, Galmar. Where's your sense of the dramatic moment?"
Galmar: "By the gods! If it's a good ending to some damn story you're after" - "Perhaps the Dragonborn should be the one to do it."
Ulfric: "Good point."


The Dominion has a large Navy and are quite good at Naval warfare, won't be too many Nords left after they sink their ships, if Ulfric chooses to sail there or h

 

[DrunkenMage]

Chances are though, Ulfric will be long dead before Skyrim is even ready to attempt such a thing. He'll no doubt spend the rest of his life trying to restore Skyrim. Hopefully the next person isn't stupid, or it will become the largest defeat in Nordic history since the defeat of Jurgen Windcaller, when his entire Nordic forces were annihilated.

Good came of it though, the Way of the Voice was born. Where the Thu'um should only be used for worship of the Gods, not for personal gain. Maybe Kyne will destroy the Stormcloaks because they follow Ulfric and his misuse of the voice. Of all the people who used the voice for violence and personal gain, destruction followed to them and those who support them. The Dragonborn being the only exception since it was bestowed by Akatosh. Though looking back, Talos did have his throat slit and could never shout again. Some say by a Breton Nightblade, others say he did it himself.