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Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

Still not liking and not buying at all is not the same. What do you propose? That ulfric goes around with a whip and slap everyone who doesnt like buying from dark elves untill they start liking them? Ulfric isnt only racist guy. Everyone is.

If thalmor invade they need to go trough other human lands. The Nords wont be allone!
Empire used nords as meatshield to bear the brunt of expansion. It is a mere shell of what it used to be. Now it is time for itself to run its own course and die. That way a new empire can be forged.
Staying in one place never brought anyone any good.

They don't buy, speak to the Alchemist in Whiterun, she'll tell you they do not buy from her because of her race. They don't buy from anyone who isn't a Nord. Not just Dark Elves, they dislike every race. For some reason especially Bretons. "Those milk drinkers? Might as well be elves. Think they're better than us." - Galmar

Where is an example Nords are used as meat shields of the Empire? Please, I am interested in this conclusion, considering Orcs are the best front line troops, not Nords. So where were Nords used as simply meat shields?
 
The Nords that remain in the Legion, since many hold their oaths scared. The ones who believe their word means something and not easily broken will be without homes since the Legion which has been in Skyrim for hundreds of years won't be able to return since the Stormcloaks have taken power. Those who do leave weaken the Imperial defenses.

The Empire is all about protecting Cyrodiil? The Empire is Skyrim, it is High Rock. Cyrodiil is the seat of the Empire but it isn't all of the Empire. Cyrodiil was the front lines of a war, Skyrim was untouched. Hammerfell while it was a part of the Empire were also front lines in the Great War, the Legion was there fighting also. Cyrodiil is connected by two Aldmeri Dominion provinces. Where would you place your army? In Cyrodiil where the fighting will be or in Skyrim where it was untouched completely. Skyrim is protected due to geography.

mappagigante.jpg


Actually the issues with the Dark Elves isn't lack of housing it is actually their treatment. They're treated like lesser beings. Their living area was renamed the Gray Quarter as an insult. It was the Snow Quarter until I'm guessing when Ulfric gained power it was renamed officially as the Gray Quarter. That is like changing a city suburb to something insulting to a certain group who lives there. Though tell me in what way is Skyrim threatened? Considering the Empire has been sending what they can to assist in Skyrim, they sent Tullius, several Legates to aid Rikke and help the Auxiliary garrisons to combat this uprising. Then you have this;

"Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people."

Oh poor Skyrim not getting cared about? The rebellion happened nearly thirty years after the WGC, if it happened earlier then yeah sure the Empire would probably be able to deal with it. Except they're spread thin, the Empire's focus is on the Aldmeri Dominion and the next Great War. The Stormcloak rebellion came out of the blue, no one was expecting the killing of the High King. Cyrodiil sends what reinforcements it can, but the focus is the next Great War. Ulfric's capture was supposed to be easy, except the Thalmor were helping him. Hadvar mentions that when ever they were about to capture Ulfric somehow he knew ahead of plan and managed to elude capture until Tullius was sent to deal with it.


We lost our capital. Holly shiiiiiiiiiiiii* lets sign every singe paper that thalmor send our way.
Reject our divine. Sure thing
Let us hunt your people like animals.
Sure thing, where do I sign.


We will roam freely trough your teritory.
Of course, just give me a quill.


Your secret police/bodyguars, they have to go.
Of course they do, I never liked them in the first place.


That... that pesky bandit filled province of hammerfell; it has to go, it looks bad.
I know man, I know, let me sign that.


Do I get to keep my throne and my shiny city?
Yeah you do, for as long as it suits thalmor interests.


Gray quarter, black quarter, white quarter, blue quarter, who cares?
What if they just said NO when red mountain erupted and sent them back to Morrowind? They wouldnt have that problem you know.
And dark elves arent angels either. Go to their shop its owner is a fence. Go to their pub they greet you like you are a piece of ...
You see them whining about their treatment yet they treat argonians like trash and even starve them to punish them.
Yeah, famous, infamous great war that only can be won by the incometent empire that wasnt prepared and lost the first one. 80 years of Thalmor preparations and not a single f was given those decades.

(as for garisoning cyrodil, if I was the empreror I would garison most troops in high rock and launch a counter-strike on high elf homeland the moment they declare war. But I aint.)
 
That isnt suport. Its like CIA rescuing a rival Taliban leader so that strife inside Talibans can continue. That doesnt mean that US likes or suports Taliban, nor does it mean that US want one side or the other to win.

Well in any way you look at it the Thalmor are taking deliberate efforts to keep Ulfric and his cause alive, while Ulfric may be oblivious to this the fact remains that the Thalmor are watching over the Stormcloaks and are insuring that they survive for the time being.
 
Well in any way you look at it the Thalmor are taking deliberate efforts to keep Ulfric and his cause alive, while Ulfric may be oblivious to this the fact remains that the Thalmor are watching over the Stormcloaks and are insuring that they survive for the time being.


They would do the same if roles were switched, just to prevent any clear victors.
 
We lost our capital. Holly shiiiiiiiiiiiii* lets sign every singe paper that thalmor send our way.
Reject our divine. Sure thing
Let us hunt your people like animals.
Sure thing, where do I sign.


We will roam freely trough your teritory.
Of course, just give me a quill.


Your secret police/bodyguars, they have to go.
Of course they do, I never liked them in the first place.


That... that pesky bandit filled province of hammerfell; it has to go, it looks bad.
I know man, I know, let me sign that.


Do I get to keep my throne and my shiny city?
Yeah you do, for as long as it suits thalmor interests.


Gray quarter, black quarter, white quarter, blue quarter, who cares?
What if they just said NO when red mountain erupted and sent them back to Morrowind? They wouldnt have that problem you know.
And dark elves arent angels either. Go to their shop its owner is a fence. Go to their pub they greet you like you are a piece of ...
You see them whining about their treatment yet they treat argonians like trash and even starve them to punish them.
Yeah, famous, infamous great war that only can be won by the incometent empire that wasnt prepared and lost the first one. 80 years of Thalmor preparations and not a single f was given those decades.

(as for garisoning cyrodil, if I was the empreror I would garison most troops in high rock and launch a counter-strike on high elf homeland the moment they declare war. But I aint.)

Actually the WGC was signed after they took back the Capital. The Dominion had taken the Imperial City and the Empire didn't surrender, you should read up on the Battle of the Red Ring.

On the 30th of Rain's Hand, the bloody Battle of the Red Ring began as General Decianus swept down on the city from the west, while General Jonna's legionnaires drove south along the Red Ring Road. In a two-day assault, Jonna's army crossed the Niben and advanced west, attempting to link up with Decianus's legions and thus surround the Imperial City. Lord Naarifin was taken by surprise by Decianus's assault, but Jonna's troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad. The heroic Nord legionnaires held firm, however, beating off the piecemeal Aldmeri attacks. By the fifth day of the battle, the Aldmeri army in the Imperial City was surrounded.
Titus II led the assault from the north, personally capturing Lord Naarifin. It is rumored the Emperor wielded the famed sword Goldbrand, although this has never been officially confirmed by the Imperial government. An attempt by the Aldmeri to break out of the city to the south was blocked by the unbreakable shieldwall of General Jonna's battered legions.
In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated.
Lord Naarifin was kept alive for thirty-three days, hanging from the White-Gold tower.

The Blades weren't a secret police, nor were they bodyguards any longer. They had become an isolated organization operating outside of Imperial law. The Penitus Oculatus was formed in their stead during the Mede Dynasty.

The Empire of the 4th era no longer saw the Blades openly protecting it, or the Emperors. That role is now filled by the Penitus Oculatus, a purely Imperial organization. But the Blades continued their secret work, to watch for the Dragonborn and guard against future enemies. The Blades were among the first to see the signs that the Thalmor of the Aldmeri Dominion would not remain isolated within their borders forever. They could do what the Penitus Oculatus, servant to Imperial policy, could not, and thus earned the lasting hatred of the Thalmor.

Hammerfell actually rejected the terms of the WGC and were removed from the Empire, the treaty didn't demand the removal of Hammerfell. The Aldmeri Dominion wanted Southern Hammerfell, which they had already occupied in force during the Great War, the Empire unable to send their Legions were forced to agree seeing the Dominion was already entrenched. It took years of warfare before they left Hammerfell by treaty with the Redguards, which actually left their province in ruins.

No one is saying the Dark Elves are perfect and since when is the Dunmer a fence? I don't remember a Dark elf fence? Name? I know there is an Altmer fence in Windhelm, but not a Dunmer. The elves were treated well for many years, they haven't always been like that, it is only recent since Ulfric took power there have been problems for them. Ulfric's forefathers took pity and aided them and treated them kindly as equals. It is only since the rise of Ulfric Stormcloak that they are 'lesser beings' to Nords.

Summerset Isles isn't a place to be easily invaded, especially since the threats are from Valenwood and Elsweyr, it is lucky you aren't Emperor. The Empire would be destroyed because you lack any strategic sense. The Imperial Navy was crippled, how are you going to get there? Send one group, bring the boats back which will take weeks leaving your forces with no retreat and no reinforcements for weeks? They will have limited supplies and would easily be taken out.
 
We lost our capital. Holly shiiiiiiiiiiiii* lets sign every singe paper
(as for garisoning cyrodil, if I was the empreror I would garison most troops in high rock and launch a counter-strike on high elf homeland the moment they declare war. But I aint.)

Seeing as how every Imperial Blade operating in the Isles had been routed out and/or killed you'd be launching a botched tactical blunder of an assault, you'd have no intelligence as to what you'd be up against.
 
They would do the same if roles were switched, just to prevent any clear victors.

Their goal is to weaken the Empire, I don't see how the roles can be switched around unless the Imperials or Bretons are rebelling then yeah it probably would be the same, if it weakens the Empire the Thalmor are all for it.
 
Actually the WGC was signed after they took back the Capital. The Dominion had taken the Imperial City and the Empire didn't surrender, you should read up on the Battle of the Red Ring.

On the 30th of Rain's Hand, the bloody Battle of the Red Ring began as General Decianus swept down on the city from the west, while General Jonna's legionnaires drove south along the Red Ring Road. In a two-day assault, Jonna's army crossed the Niben and advanced west, attempting to link up with Decianus's legions and thus surround the Imperial City. Lord Naarifin was taken by surprise by Decianus's assault, but Jonna's troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad. The heroic Nord legionnaires held firm, however, beating off the piecemeal Aldmeri attacks. By the fifth day of the battle, the Aldmeri army in the Imperial City was surrounded.
Titus II led the assault from the north, personally capturing Lord Naarifin. It is rumored the Emperor wielded the famed sword Goldbrand, although this has never been officially confirmed by the Imperial government. An attempt by the Aldmeri to break out of the city to the south was blocked by the unbreakable shieldwall of General Jonna's battered legions.
In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated.
Lord Naarifin was kept alive for thirty-three days, hanging from the White-Gold tower.

The Blades weren't a secret police, nor were they bodyguards any longer. They had become an isolated organization operating outside of Imperial law. The Penitus Oculatus was formed in their stead during the Mede Dynasty.

The Empire of the 4th era no longer saw the Blades openly protecting it, or the Emperors. That role is now filled by the Penitus Oculatus, a purely Imperial organization. But the Blades continued their secret work, to watch for the Dragonborn and guard against future enemies. The Blades were among the first to see the signs that the Thalmor of the Aldmeri Dominion would not remain isolated within their borders forever. They could do what the Penitus Oculatus, servant to Imperial policy, could not, and thus earned the lasting hatred of the Thalmor.

Hammerfell actually rejected the terms of the WGC and were removed from the Empire, the treaty didn't demand the removal of Hammerfell. The Aldmeri Dominion wanted Southern Hammerfell, which they had already occupied in force during the Great War, the Empire unable to send their Legions were forced to agree seeing the Dominion was already entrenched. It took years of warfare before they left Hammerfell by treaty with the Redguards, which actually left their province in ruins.

No one is saying the Dark Elves are perfect and since when is the Dunmer a fence? I don't remember a Dark elf fence? Name? I know there is an Altmer fence in Windhelm, but not a Dunmer. The elves were treated well for many years, they haven't always been like that, it is only recent since Ulfric took power there have been problems for them. Ulfric's forefathers took pity and aided them and treated them kindly as equals. It is only since the rise of Ulfric Stormcloak that they are 'lesser beings' to Nords.


I will not repeat myself. empire is all about cyrodil and imperial city. Thalmor know that, that is where they will charge next war and take it, and then they will look for new concessions.

How long do the dunmer live?
 
Seeing as how every Imperial Blade operating in the Isles had been routed out and/or killed you'd be launching a botched tactical blunder of an assault, you'd have no intelligence as to what you'd be up against.


Maybe so, but it would definitely be unexpected and it would definitely cause chaos in Altmer war plans. They are expecting battles in and around cyrodil for imperial city. That is wher bulk of their forces are. Land sudenly in their homeland and you have a lot of WTF going on. The thalmor would have no option than to get their forces back to sumerset to deal with imperial forces, who will be ready to retreat. And thalmor army would be split, because now they need to defend homeland as well as fight on the border.
 
Their goal is to weaken the Empire, I don't see how the roles can be switched around unless the Imperials or Bretons are rebelling then yeah it probably would be the same, if it weakens the Empire the Thalmor are all for it.


If empire was loosing side at the begining and ulfric was beasting around then thalmor would suport empire to keep the war going on. You are missing the entire point. They would suport anyone if it keeps the conflict going. They dont care who
 
I will not repeat myself. empire is all about cyrodil and imperial city. Thalmor know that, that is where they will charge next war and take it, and then they will look for new concessions.

How long do the dunmer live?

They can't attack anywhere else, the Imperial Army is sitting on their border, if they take the Imperial City in the Next Great War the Empire would of been destroyed, no soldiers would be left, they would simply march through and continue their conquest... You are not using common sense. The Empire is about the Empire and protecting the Empire, Cyrodiil was attacked in the last Great War. Skyrim wasn't, so stop going on about the Empire not caring about other provinces when it is known they do care considering they have sent people to provinces in older games. Sending the player character there. Cyrodiil was attacked, Skyrim & High Rock weren't. Hammerfell was attacked and there was Legions fighting there. When the Legions left Hammerfell they actually discharged a large number of 'invalids' these Veterans are the ones that formed the core of the Army that fought the Thalmor still in Hammerfell, making one of the Thalmor General believe she still faced the Imperial Army.

There won't be concessions next Great War. There won't be anyone to strike a deal with if they reach the Imperial City. To get there they have to destroy the entire Imperial Army, if they destroy the entire Imperial Army who is going to make concessions? They would have just defeated Cyrodiil, cutting off the head of the Empire. The Legion is one of the best fighting forces in Tamriel, if they're defeated who will pose a threat? A band of poorly trained Nord Militia? Nords who now fear magic, up against a highly trained arcane army. Also against the best archers in all of Tamriel. Common sense.

Dunmer live for hundreds to thousands of years. There was a Dunmer in Morrowind who was over four thousand years old, his friend is a Dwemer.
Maybe so, but it would definitely be unexpected and it would definitely cause chaos in Altmer war plans. They are expecting battles in and around cyrodil for imperial city. That is wher bulk of their forces are. Land sudenly in their homeland and you have a lot of WTF going on. The thalmor would have no option than to get their forces back to sumerset to deal with imperial forces, who will be ready to retreat. And thalmor army would be split, because now they need to defend homeland as well as fight on the border.

They are expecting battles within Elsweyr and Valenwood, not within Cyrodiil. The Imperial Army next great war will be on the attack. There are several issues with landing in their homeland, the Aldmeri Dominion Navy which operates in that stretch of sea is at full strength, Altmer are some of the best at naval warfare. The Summerset Isles which also pose a problem since geography speaking it isn't well known, so while other provinces are greatly detailed. Summerset Isles weren't, so you're landing a force which are being attacked at sea by their navy, what ships do make it will land onto territory that isn't very well documented and with reinforcements being weeks away, under attack by Dominion Navy, so even fewer supply ships will make it through. What land forces you do have will have been cut into smaller forces since many would of died trying to reach Summerset from the naval warfare. You're now under attack with no retreat by the most gifted race in the Arcane.
 
They can't attack anywhere else, the Imperial Army is sitting on their border, if they take the Imperial City in the Next Great War the Empire would of been destroyed, no soldiers would be left, they would simply march through and continue their conquest... You are not using common sense. The Empire is about the Empire and protecting the Empire, Cyrodiil was attacked in the last Great War. Skyrim wasn't, so stop going on about the Empire not caring about other provinces when it is known they do care considering they have sent people to provinces in older games. Sending the player character there. Cyrodiil was attacked, Skyrim & High Rock weren't. Hammerfell was attacked and there was Legions fighting there. When the Legions left Hammerfell they actually discharged a large number of 'invalids' these Veterans are the ones that formed the core of the Army that fought the Thalmor still in Hammerfell, making one of the Thalmor General believe she still faced the Imperial Army.

There won't be concessions next Great War. There won't be anyone to strike a deal with if they reach the Imperial City. To get there they have to destroy the entire Imperial Army, if they destroy the entire Imperial Army who is going to make concessions? They would have just defeated Cyrodiil, cutting off the head of the Empire. The Legion is one of the best fighting forces in Tamriel, if they're defeated who will pose a threat? A band of poorly trained Nord Militia? Nords who now fear magic, up against a highly trained arcane army. Also against the best archers in all of Tamriel. Common sense.

Dunmer live for hundreds to thousands of years. There was a Dunmer in Morrowind who was over four thousand years old, his friend is a Dwemer.

They are expecting battles within Elsweyr and Valenwood, not within Cyrodiil. The Imperial Army next great war will be on the attack. There are several issues with landing in their homeland, the Aldmeri Dominion Navy which operates in that stretch of sea is at full strength, Altmer are some of the best at naval warfare. The Summerset Isles which also pose a problem since geography speaking it isn't well known, so while other provinces are greatly detailed. Summerset Isles weren't, so you're landing a force which are being attacked at sea by their navy, what ships do make it will land onto territory that isn't very well documented and with reinforcements being weeks away, under attack by Dominion Navy, so even fewer supply ships will make it through. What land forces you do have will have been cut into smaller forces since many would of died trying to reach Summerset from the naval warfare. You're now under attack with no retreat by the most gifted race in the Arcane.


SKYRIM WASNT. That exactly is my point. Empire had lands untouched by war. They should have kept going. Instead they are all about imperial city.
They will make a deal and ask for concesions, they have no use for that many humans in their lands. They have time, they live for thousands of years. They can play it calm and nice, taking litle by litle untill they get humans into litle enclaves.


It is not about who is best at warfare nor it is about wining lasting batles in valenwood. It is a chaos mission. Soldiers are sent there to utilize the element of suprise to maximum and go back. They arent there to have a lasting victory and hold cities.
It is a strike to force thalmor to divert forces from frontlines, then retreat, leave some forces in high rock to keep the thalmor on their toes and force them to divert while sending most of the army back to main battles.

Dying in naval warfare is highly unlikely for the first time that hapens because it is unexpected. Even you think its madness to do it and that is why it needs to be done.
 
SKYRIM WASNT. That exactly is my point. Empire had lands untouched by war. They should have kept going. Instead they are all about imperial city.

Skyrim wasn't effected only in terms of attrition and damage, almost everyone in the game has a story to tell about the war and countless veterans can be found throughout the country. Skyrim lost a lot of men who went to fight the Great War.
 
Skyrim wasn't effected only in terms of attrition and damage, almost everyone in the game has a story to tell about the war and countless veterans can be found throughout the country. Skyrim lost a lot of men who went to fight the Great War.


Lets look at real life and the SSSR. What if they gave up?
 
But you realize at what cost? Cities burned and razed, atrocities carried out upon the citizens and soldiers who begged Titus for peace at any means? Entire legions gone?

And on another note, do you think it was cowardly of Titus to sign the concordant?


The cost SSSR paid in out world and it won and became great, falling apart later because of missmanagement.

Yes it was cowardly to sign those terms.
 
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