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Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

Why would they let go of Skyrim?
Where does that "empire needs skyrim as much as skyrim need the empire" fit into that?
Torture rooms, executions etc is all I see with empire. That isnt someone who would be willing to just let go of Skyrim if Skyrim asked so.

Because they benefit each other, through trade and commerce. Skyrim is important to the Empire and the Empire does need Skyrim, but if they left peacefully... they would still have good relations. If they raised arms against the Legion soldiers and forced the Empire to remove themselves that isn't peaceful relations. Ulfric's actions drive a wedge between Cyrodiil-Skyrim relations. There is nothing stopping them from leaving peacefully, except the entire of Skyrim doesn't want to leave the Empire through violence, you as a stormcloak supporter are forcing that onto other Nords. If a peaceful solution occurred then why wouldn't the Empire agree? They wouldn't have to worry about Skyrim as much, knowing they have Nordic support still. The Empire needs Skyrim as much as Skyrim needs the Empire fits into after the Civil war has started, when there is a great war looming and you're trying to cut relations with Cyrodiil and helping destroy the Empire.

Do you see a difference between peaceful solution and violence?
 
Rome fell because it relied on barbarian auxilia while keeping only a low real roman army. When migration of nations hapened, kinsman wouldnt fight his kinsman and barbarians simply overran the empire. But that is not the point.

Not true, the Auxillia was just as well trained as the Legionary soldiers, and after ten or so years they became legionary soldiers. What truly brought the great Empire of Rome down was the constant downturn of their economy due to not investing much in the 1) the economy, 2) ineffective leadership, 3) the division of the Roman Empire.

1). The Roman economy was not fueled by trade as many believe it was, but through war and conquest. In fact, every war that Rome ever engaged in was to acquire another factions wealth and use it to continue their prosperity. However, once they literally ran out of people to invade, their economy started to take a turn for the worse.

2). The Roman leadership was also noneffective towards the fall of the Western Roman Empire. There was severe loyalty issues with the Western Roman Legion commander, and at the worst there was twenty-five emperors per year. At the height of Rome, there was less than five emperors per year, the economy was "booming", and the Legions were well supplied with fresh men and supplies.

3). The great divide between the east and west is what started the fall of Rome. Rome did not truely fall until 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Empire.
 
Because they benefit each other, through trade and commerce. Skyrim is important to the Empire and the Empire does need Skyrim, but if they left peacefully... they would still have good relations. If they raised arms against the Legion soldiers and forced the Empire to remove themselves that isn't peaceful relations. Ulfric's actions drive a wedge between Cyrodiil-Skyrim relations. There is nothing stopping them from leaving peacefully, except the entire of Skyrim doesn't want to leave the Empire through violence, you as a stormcloak supporter are forcing that onto other Nords. If a peaceful solution occurred then why wouldn't the Empire agree? They wouldn't have to worry about Skyrim as much, knowing they have Nordic support still. The Empire needs Skyrim as much as Skyrim needs the Empire fits into after the Civil war has started, when there is a great war looming and you're trying to cut relations with Cyrodiil and helping destroy the Empire.

Do you see a difference between peaceful solution and violence?


Oh sure, we loose silver mines of the reach trough peace or war.
We lose those recruitable men too.
But they want to go so we will let them go :D

How-yes-no :D

Silver is too sweat to just let go :3
They would always find an excuse to stay in Skyrim. Markarth doesnt want to leave. Then they would say Solitude doesnt want to leave if markarth changes its mind. And it would go on and on and on.
 
Not true, the Auxillia was just as well trained as the Legionary soldiers, and after ten or so years they became legionary soldiers. What truly brought the great Empire of Rome down was the constant downturn of their economy due to not investing much in the 1) the economy, 2) ineffective leadership, 3) the division of the Roman Empire.

1). The Roman economy was not fueled by trade as many believe it was, but through war and conquest. In fact, every war that Rome ever engaged in was to acquire another factions wealth and use it to continue their prosperity. However, once they literally ran out of people to invade, their economy started to take a turn for the worse.

2). The Roman leadership was also noneffective towards the fall of the Western Roman Empire. There was severe loyalty issues with the Western Roman Legion commander, and at the worst there was twenty-five emperors per year. At the height of Rome, there was less than five emperors per year, the economy was "booming", and the Legions were well supplied with fresh men and supplies.

3). The great divide between the east and west is what started the fall of Rome. Rome did not truely fall until 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Empire.


Being trained doesnt mean a thing if you arent ready to throw that javelin at your brother trying to cross the borded to get away from the huns.

It was war, slaves and conquest, yet it could suceed if a reform was passed.

Advent of christianity, paired with aparition of Huns, and huge number of barbaric auxilia unviling to fight their kinsmen led to the Roman demise.
 
Come on man, war was a stalemate that could have went in humans favor merely because of way men and mer do things. Human losses can be replaced. Elven losses are hard on them and not as easily replaced.
What was the position of UK during the blitz? No peace, no negotiations! They got bombed, they got floor wiped with them and their army and still kept going on.

That is actually false, Elves and Humans populate the same. It wouldn't of went into man's favor, it was very against man's favor. Redguards ruined their province during their continued fighting, they will take a very long time to recover, certainly more time than Cyrodiil.

UK during the blitz didn't face bandits within their country roaming and slaughtering innocent populations at all their cities, they also didn't face fantasy magical creatures that hold hammers attacking villages.

It takes times to replace losses, you can't simply replace thousands of soldiers in five years, unless you want the most useless army known to the lands of Tamriel. The Empire is recovering their losses, twenty six years have passed I believe, so they are quite close to being ready. The treaty has been in place for nearly thirty years, yet the Thalmor choose now to cause trouble within Skyrim turning the Empire's attention inwards, all those years they have been dealing with recovering for the next outbreak of war, there is only a peace treaty the Empire and Aldmeri Dominion aren't exactly allies, it's a stand off between them currently until the next outbreak starts.

As Tullius says "From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes."
 
That is actually false, Elves and Humans populate the same. It wouldn't of went into man's favor, it was very against man's favor. Redguards ruined their province during their continued fighting, they will take a very long time to recover, certainly more time than Cyrodiil.

UK during the blitz didn't face bandits within their country roaming and slaughtering innocent populations at all their cities, they also didn't face fantasy magical creatures that hold hammers attacking villages.

It takes times to replace losses, you can't simply replace thousands of soldiers in five years, unless you want the most useless army known to the lands of Tamriel. The Empire is recovering their losses, twenty six years have passed I believe, so they are quite close to being ready. The treaty has been in place for nearly thirty years, yet the Thalmor choose now to cause trouble within Skyrim turning the Empire's attention inwards, all those years they have been dealing with recovering for the next outbreak of war, there is only a peace treaty the Empire and Aldmeri Dominion aren't exactly allies, it's a stand off between them currently until the next outbreak starts.

As Tullius says "From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes."

Ok, elves live for 4 000 years, yet they reach maturity in 20 years like men do?
That doesnt make any sense.
 
Oh sure, we loose silver mines of the reach trough peace or war.
We lose those recruitable men too.
But they want to go so we will let them go :D

How-yes-no :D

Silver is too sweat to just let go :3
They would always find an excuse to stay in Skyrim. Markarth doesnt want to leave. Then they would say Solitude doesnt want to leave if markarth changes its mind. And it would go on and on and on.

They wouldn't lose anything, Markarth Silver actually fund and pay for much of Skyrim, speak with the Silver Bloods they are the people who pay the Nord guards also. Silver is what Skyrim trades, the Empire uses little gold coins, not silver coins. Silver is owned by Skyrim and is what Skyrim trades with through the East Empire Company, Cyrodiil is fertile farmlands and wines etc. They trade with each other, the provinces all maintain some level of independence, they all still have their local laws, being a part of the Empire doesn't stop them from having wars with each other. When Skyrim invaded Hammerfell and High Rock during the Imperial Simulacrum they were all still provinces of the Empire. Imperial authority was low so Skyrim took advantage. Don't be trying to claim people of Skyrim are the victims, this isn't the first time they have rebelled against the Emperor. Skyrim has it pretty easy since they are a major province of the Empire, they were not taken through conquest they maintain many of their traditions, any other province the Empire would of hammered down hard.

Imperials are very diplomatic and will prefer peaceful solutions over conflicts, though they won't simply roll over they produce some very highly trained soldiers. Through diplomacy and their high trained armies, they have formed their Empire.
 
Ok, elves live for 4 000 years, yet they reach maturity in 20 years like men do?
That doesnt make any sense.

They're long lived, it makes perfect sense. Just because you live long doesn't mean it takes longer to reach maturity. They're elves, though the female elves are very sexual in their 'youth' to an extreme point, they are always fun. What Elves call youth and what men do are two very different things. Doesn't stop them from putting a weapon in your hand.
 
They're long lived, it makes perfect sense. Just because you live long doesn't mean it takes longer to reach maturity. They're elves, though the female elves are very sexual in their 'youth' to an extreme point, they are always fun. What Elves call youth and what men do are two very different things. Doesn't stop them from putting a weapon in your hand.


It usualy does. Because if they live for 4000 years and mature at same speed men do then isles would be full of old elves that live on.
 
They wouldn't lose anything, Markarth Silver actually fund and pay for much of Skyrim, speak with the Silver Bloods they are the people who pay the Nord guards also. Silver is what Skyrim trades, the Empire uses little gold coins, not silver coins. Silver is owned by Skyrim and is what Skyrim trades with through the East Empire Company, Cyrodiil is fertile farmlands and wines etc. They trade with each other, the provinces all maintain some level of independence, they all still have their local laws, being a part of the Empire doesn't stop them from having wars with each other. When Skyrim invaded Hammerfell and High Rock during the Imperial Simulacrum they were all still provinces of the Empire. Imperial authority was low so Skyrim took advantage. Don't be trying to claim people of Skyrim are the victims, this isn't the first time they have rebelled against the Emperor. Skyrim has it pretty easy since they are a major province of the Empire, they were not taken through conquest they maintain many of their traditions, any other province the Empire would of hammered down hard.

Imperials are very diplomatic and will prefer peaceful solutions over conflicts, though they won't simply roll over they produce some very highly trained soldiers. Through diplomacy and their high trained armies, they have formed their Empire.


You make it sound as if only reason empire keeps Skyrim is to spread love and world peace.
They dont have any worldy interests there, they gain no benefits etc..
Only reason they are there is to prevent civil wars and uphold the laws, otherwise they are paying for every need of Skyrim -_-
 
It usualy does. Because if they live for 4000 years and mature at same speed men do then isles would be full of old elves that live on.

High Elves are selective in breeding they do kill nine out of ten babies to maintain pure bloodlines, Bosmer don't have that selective breeding. Summerset Isles are full of old elves of course, there is also a fairly old High Elf in the Imperial Legion, Legate Fansendil who has been in the Imperial Legion for at least 158 years since he mentions his active duty in 42 when the year is now 201.

You make it sound as if only reason empire keeps Skyrim is to spread love and world peace.
They dont have any worldy interests there, they gain no benefits etc..
Only reason they are there is to prevent civil wars and uphold the laws, otherwise they are paying for every need of Skyrim -_-

Imperials do spread love and peace, Imperial authority spreads racial equality and stability within the provinces. Through TES history anytime Imperial Authority was low, the provinces invade each other and dislike everyone. Skyrim is such an example of lowering Imperial authority the lowest point being Windhelm which has racial segregation and has banished the Argonians from the city interior. The Argonians don't even get paid well, since they're not Nords.

The Empire gains benefits from all the provinces, Cyrodiil isn't all of the Empire. Skyrim was one of the founding provinces of the Third Empire, they rely on the other provinces of the Empire just as they rely on it, they do very well together when Imperial Authority is going strong. When it isn't Nords much rather invade their neighbors and the provinces all go to war with each other, independent Skyrim would sooner invade than join forces with anyone against the Aldmeri Dominion threat. The Empire isn't a tyranny rule, the provinces do actually rule themselves and many times do clash with Imperial policy and views, it isn't like Skyrim is run solely by non-nords. There are no Imperials within Skyrim politics currently, if there were then you can claim Skyrim for the Nords, but it is already ruled by Nords.

It isn't about keeping Skyrim, if all of Skyrim wanted to leave the Empire peacefully then yeah they can, but you're forcing your views in a hostile way. If Skyrim left peacefully then there would be no problems, the Legions would be able to pass through safely from Cyrodiil to High Rock, Skyrim would still be trading with the Empire, there wouldn't be an issue. The Empire is only effective when Imperial authority is high, Nords simply don't care about anyone else, Nords are more "Imperials aren't looking, lets take advantage. Hello High Rock & Hammerfell, time to get us some land."

The Imperial Legion escorted Orc refugees into Skyrim when their home was destroyed by High Rock and Hammerfell, they did that against Imperial policy since Imperial authority was low and they took advantage. The problem is the Empire is ineffective at times because the provinces have too much of a say, if the Empire were evil mean tyrants like some Stormcloaks supporters try to make out, then there wouldn't be these issues. The problem is the Emperor isn't the ultimate power, he actually has limited power in Empire politics, the ruling body is the Elder Council. The provinces are represented in the Elder Council which is noted during Oblivion when it is said the Elder Council is in the provinces dealing with local issues, but the Emperor only has the power of Veto. People find it so much easier to always blame Titus Mede II over policy and treaties when he doesn't dictate what is written. His signature wouldn't be the only one on the WGC, for him to sign it he would of needed the signatures of the Elder Council and the rulers of the provinces to accept the terms since it largely affects them.

The Empire isn't in Skyrim it is Skyrim. There aren't a bunch of people who are 'Empire' and 'Skyrim' the two are the same, the Empire isn't an Empire without the provinces. The Imperial Legion have been in Skyrim for hundreds maybe a thousand years. They are there to yes uphold the law but mainly to maintain a garrison, Holds in Skyrim maintain their own guards and laws, they make arrests of those within their Holds, if they can't catch someone they probably ask the Imperial Legion garrison which can operate through all the Holds to help. The Imperial Legion during peace time garrison forts, patrol roads, keeping bandits in check and dangerous creatures at bay, they also loan soldiers to Nobles to escort them through the lands. You can actually see this when you come across an Imperial Soldier escorting a Noble. The Imperial Legion in Skyrim is mainly there to stand ready for when they're called into action, the reason they're there is to also protect Skyrim. If the Empire only cared about Cyrodiil there wouldn't even be a Legion garrison within Skyrim. They are there to protect the people of the provinces for whatever threat may occur, like if Skyrim was invaded by Akavir or they came under attack from something. They aren't simply there to be tyrants and taking over everything. All of the provinces gain benefits from each other, High Rock gains benefits from Skyrim and Skyrim gains benefits from High Rock, they are working together.

It isn't a one way street where Skyrim is always the victim, Skyrim is probably the most troublesome province of the Empire, the things they get away with. If any other province of the Empire openly rebelled against the Emperor like they did during the War of the Red Diamond, in which the Empress died in captivity, they would of been crushed. Skyrim gets away with so much, they actually annexed many miles of land in Hammerfell and High Rock, they still haven't given it back. Skyrim is hated by all it's neighbors, Cyrodiil and Skyrim have quite close relations so it is why they get away with murder basically.

Skyrim and Cyrodiil formed the Third Empire together, they took over Tamriel together.
 
High Elves are selective in breeding they do kill nine out of ten babies to maintain pure bloodlines, Bosmer don't have that selective breeding. Summerset Isles are full of old elves of course, there is also a fairly old High Elf in the Imperial Legion, Legate Fansendil who has been in the Imperial Legion for at least 158 years since he mentions his active duty in 42 when the year is now 201.



Imperials do spread love and peace, Imperial authority spreads racial equality and stability within the provinces. Through TES history anytime Imperial Authority was low, the provinces invade each other and dislike everyone. Skyrim is such an example of lowering Imperial authority the lowest point being Windhelm which has racial segregation and has banished the Argonians from the city interior. The Argonians don't even get paid well, since they're not Nords.

The Empire gains benefits from all the provinces, Cyrodiil isn't all of the Empire. Skyrim was one of the founding provinces of the Third Empire, they rely on the other provinces of the Empire just as they rely on it, they do very well together when Imperial Authority is going strong. When it isn't Nords much rather invade their neighbors and the provinces all go to war with each other, independent Skyrim would sooner invade than join forces with anyone against the Aldmeri Dominion threat. The Empire isn't a tyranny rule, the provinces do actually rule themselves and many times do clash with Imperial policy and views, it isn't like Skyrim is run solely by non-nords. There are no Imperials within Skyrim politics currently, if there were then you can claim Skyrim for the Nords, but it is already ruled by Nords.

It isn't about keeping Skyrim, if all of Skyrim wanted to leave the Empire peacefully then yeah they can, but you're forcing your views in a hostile way. If Skyrim left peacefully then there would be no problems, the Legions would be able to pass through safely from Cyrodiil to High Rock, Skyrim would still be trading with the Empire, there wouldn't be an issue. The Empire is only effective when Imperial authority is high, Nords simply don't care about anyone else, Nords are more "Imperials aren't looking, lets take advantage. Hello High Rock & Hammerfell, time to get us some land."

The Imperial Legion escorted Orc refugees into Skyrim when their home was destroyed by High Rock and Hammerfell, they did that against Imperial policy since Imperial authority was low and they took advantage. The problem is the Empire is ineffective at times because the provinces have too much of a say, if the Empire were evil mean tyrants like some Stormcloaks supporters try to make out, then there wouldn't be these issues. The problem is the Emperor isn't the ultimate power, he actually has limited power in Empire politics, the ruling body is the Elder Council. The provinces are represented in the Elder Council which is noted during Oblivion when it is said the Elder Council is in the provinces dealing with local issues, but the Emperor only has the power of Veto. People find it so much easier to always blame Titus Mede II over policy and treaties when he doesn't dictate what is written. His signature wouldn't be the only one on the WGC, for him to sign it he would of needed the signatures of the Elder Council and the rulers of the provinces to accept the terms since it largely effects them.

The Empire isn't in Skyrim it is Skyrim. There aren't a bunch of people who are 'Empire' and 'Skyrim' the two are the same, the Empire isn't an Empire without the provinces. The Imperial Legion have been in Skyrim for hundreds maybe a thousand years. They are there to yes uphold the law but mainly to maintain a garrison, Holds in Skyrim maintain their own guards and laws, they make arrests of those within their Holds, if they can't catch someone they probably ask the Imperial Legion garrison which can operate through all the Holds to help. The Imperial Legion during peace time garrison forts, patrol roads, keeping bandits in check and dangerous creatures at bay, they also loan soldiers to Nobles to escort them through the lands. You can actually see this when you come across an Imperial Soldier escorting a Noble. The Imperial Legion in Skyrim is mainly there to stand ready for when they're called into action, the reason they're there is to also protect Skyrim. If the Empire only cared about Cyrodiil there wouldn't even be a Legion garrison within Skyrim. They are there to protect the people of the provinces for whatever threat may occur, like if Skyrim was invaded by Akavir or they came under attack from something. They aren't simply there to be tyrants and taking over everything. All of the provinces gain benefits from each other, High Rock gains benefits from Skyrim and Skyrim gains benefits from High Rock, they are working together.

It isn't a one way street where Skyrim is always the victim, Skyrim is probably the most troublesome province of the Empire, the things they get away with. If any other province of the Empire openly rebelled against the Emperor like they did during the War of the Red Diamond, in which the Empress died in captivity, they would of been crushed. Skyrim gets away with so much, they actually annexed many miles of land in Hammerfell and High Rock, they still haven't given it back. Skyrim is hated by all it's neighbors, Cyrodiil and Skyrim have quite close relations so it is why they get away with murder basically.

Skyrim and Cyrodiil formed the Third Empire together, they took over Tamriel together.

Mind if I send you a link to a chatroom so we can discuss it in detail instead of long posts and waiting?
 
Mind if I send you a link to a chatroom so we can discuss it in detail instead of long posts and waiting?

Can't, that was my last post for awhile, heading out drinking. Though on a final note, Skyrim stole Falkreath also, it was a part of Cyrodiil.
 
The Civil War in Skyrim isn't Imperial vs Nord. It is Imperial, Nord, Breton, Dunmer & Altmer Legionnaires vs Xenophobic, non-nord hating rebels.

I find the choice for me rather easy, what the Thalmor want, I do the opposite. The Thalmor aid the Stormcloaks so I will aid the Legion in Skyrim, I don't feel right joining the Stormcloaks while probably everything is all Thalmor paid for, aiding them in harming the Empire.

My interpretation about the Civil war that it isn't about race vs race. It's about fighting for freedom and independence. The Empire proved to the people in Skyrim that they're not strong enough to rule the province. The Nords did not invite the Thalmor to their land, it was the Empire that did due to the The White-Gold Concordat that Emperor Titus Mede II signed to pause the Great war. It was by fact not the most popular thing that the Empire did, since it created many enemies as a result. One of the conditions to this treaty is to ban the worship of Talos. Talos is heavily influenced by so many humans, especially in Skyrim. To take away Talos is like taking away part of the souls. While some worships Talos in secret, many more want to openly worship him, and would die for that freedom. Since the treaty was signed the Thalmor was granted power to roam around Empire ruled provinces , and hunt down Talos worshipers like animals. They were either slaughtered on sight or taken to a Thalmor prison where they most likely died due to torture or starvation.

Can you not blame some of the Stormcloak supporting Nords for being Xenophobic? Look how the Dunmers in Windhelm refuses to help them to regain back their religious freedom. You would think they would return a favor by fighting along aside them, but no. The Dunmers are takers, not givers. The Stormcloaks aren't actually at full war against the Empire. The purpose of the Civil war is to physically drive out the Empire from Skyrim so that the Nords can take over.

Like what Galmar said:
TESV2013-04-0522-00-28-96.png


While the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric may seem incriminating as if the Thalmor are aiding the Stormcloaks.. Perhaps they are? The Thalmor wants to see total destruction of the Empire, and think that they can use the Stormcloaks to do their dirty work.... but unfortunately their tragically mistaken as the Stormcloaks primary enemy are in fact the Thalmor, and not the Empire. They're underestimating the Stormcloaks by far. One of the biggest mistakes that the Thalmor did was to allow Ulfric to escape. They should've killed him while he was in their custody.
 
My interpretation about the Civil war that it isn't about race vs race. It's about fighting for freedom and independence. The Empire proved to the people in Skyrim that they're not strong enough to rule the province. The Nords did not invite the Thalmor to their land, it was the Empire that did due to the The White-Gold Concordat that Emperor Titus Mede II signed to pause the Great war. It was by fact not the most popular thing that the Empire did, since it created many enemies as a result. One of the conditions to this treaty is to ban the worship of Talos. Talos is heavily influenced by so many humans, especially in Skyrim. To take away Talos is like taking away part of the souls. While some worships Talos in secret, many more want to openly worship him, and would die for that freedom. Since the treaty was signed the Thalmor was granted power to roam around Empire ruled provinces , and hunt down Talos worshipers like animals. They were either slaughtered on sight or taken to a Thalmor prison where they most likely died due to torture or starvation.

Can you not blame some of the Stormcloak supporting Nords for being Xenophobic? Look how the Dunmers in Windhelm refuses to help them to regain back their religious freedom. You would think they would return a favor by fighting along aside them, but no. The Dunmers are takers, not givers. The Stormcloaks aren't actually at full war against the Empire. The purpose of the Civil war is to physically drive out the Empire from Skyrim so that the Nords can take over.

Like what Galmar said:
TESV2013-04-0522-00-28-96.png


While the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric may seem incriminating as if the Thalmor are aiding the Stormcloaks.. Perhaps they are? The Thalmor wants to see total destruction of the Empire, and think that they can use the Stormcloaks to do their dirty work.... but unfortunately their tragically mistaken as the Stormcloaks primary enemy are in fact the Thalmor, and not the Empire. They're underestimating the Stormcloaks by far. One of the biggest mistakes that the Thalmor did was to allow Ulfric to escape. They should've killed him while he was in their custody.

The Civil war isn't as easy as freedom and independence, it's about one man's ambition for the throne of Skyrim. It could of been done peacefully and without bloodshed, but that wasn't what Ulfric Stormcloak wanted, he wanted to be High King of Skyrim. The Empire did not simply roll over, there is a huge difference in accepting terms under the mere threat of war and after a long and destructive war. Skyrim did invite the Thalmor, the moment High King Istlod agreed to the terms of the treaty, thus placing his signature on the WGC also. High King Istlod whom Ulfric respected and all of the Jarls of Skyrim respected. The Thalmor have been in Skyrim for nearly thirty years, the issues with them have only begun in the last few months with the rise of the Stormcloak rebellion. Why wait nearly thirty years to bitch about something, the Thalmor have been there for awhile now. Most of the new generations have known nothing else except the WGC, unless you're over forty you don't even know what it was like before the Great War.

The Empire signed the WGC, the entire Empire. Not just Titus Mede II who can't even decide what terms there are, so blaming Titus Mede II is pointless he is one signature of many. Skyrim accepted the terms, High Rock accepted the terms, Cyrodiil accepted the terms, Hammerfell rejected. Skyrim wanted peace at almost any price, the same as Cyrodiil and High Rock. There is no point blaming one man, a man who saved the Empire at it's darkest hour, the man who returned home all the Nord legionnaires. Skyrim was suffering due to the war also, their lands were untouched by the Thalmor invasion but they lost the western Reach for two years. The Empire had to consider the costs of continuing the war and that cost was going to be too high. Should innocent populations suffer at the mercy of Dominion rule so a few old Nords can simply thump their chests and say "What a brave defeat it was" Skyrim accepted the terms, they wanted their families home. You think the Empire are cowards because they thought of all the people suffering while the Imperial Legion was fighting. Bandits roaming wild in all provinces, no Imperial authority, no one to arrest you or protect the settlements. There wasn't even half the Imperial army remaining, yet you and many Stormcloak supporters who lack any common sense believe sending the rest of your forces to their deaths and let the rest of the population suffer is the honorable thing to do? The correct course of action?

The worship of Talos was very large in Cyrodiil, you think it's easy for other races to ban the worship of Talos? Talos who was the great Emperor Tiber Septim who formed the Third Empire and was the hero god of man-kind? It isn't just hard on Nords, many Nords don't worship Talos also, many prefer Nordic Gods, but that doesn't mean Imperials don't worship him, nor bretons, all races who converted to the Nine Divines of the Empire worship them. For nearly thirty years there was no problem, the ban wasn't even enforced. It actually took the Thalmor an entire week of someone shouting about talos, who did it for seven days in a row before the Thalmor made an arrest. The Treaty doesn't give them the right to simply kill on sight, they do it in secret and the Empire suspects it, the Empire is planning to go back to war. You always ask what is taking so long? Well here is some common sense knowledge. The Imperial army has regained strength and has formed up on the Dominion border, they must be nearly ready because after nearly thirty years why would the Thalmor stir up trouble and start a civil war between the Nords? Because you can't fight a war when you're fighting yourself.

You think the Thalmor are bad for arresting a few Nords here and there? Take a look in the mirror, you've killed more Nords with the Stormcloaks than the Thalmor and Legion combined.

Nords are not xenophobic mainly the Stormcloaks are. Nords are actually great traders and love going to other provinces and becoming ship captains etc. Skyrim thrives from buying from non-nords. You just put in place a Government that is xenophobic and won't buy things from Non-Nords. Look at how the Dunmer in Windhelm refuse the help the Stormcloaks? Why would they help the Stormcloaks, when they have been mistreated the moment Ulfric's father died. His father who was kind and just, treated the Dunmer as equals and they were prospering and doing well. It's only since Ulfric became Jarl in the recent years that the Dunmer issues have begun. Now you tell me, would you fight for a group who has just officially changed the name of your living area as an insult to you as a race? Who consider you lesser beings and don't even patrol your neighborhood with guards? That doesn't exactly inspire the recruitment now does it?

The purpose of the Civil war is so the Nords can take over? I did not see one single non-nord Jarl within Skyrim, you just took over Skyrim from the Nords. You just waged war against the other Holds. Please do tell me how removing Nord Jarls and killing more Nords than Imperials, makes Nords in charge? You just forced your views onto the western half of Skyrim through violence and bloodshed, you think that is what makes it better? You have killed more sons of Skyrim than the Thalmor, you have put many people's businesses, their livelihood on the line, you have adopted the views of agreeing to racial segregation, because the race that has been mistreated the moment your great Ulfric gained power in Windhelm isn't suddenly raising the colors and shouting "Which way boss?" You mistreat people, saying they're lesser beings to you because of their race. They aren't going to bloody worship your cause.

So splitting the Empire apart, is good? It's bad for the Thalmor? Oh well the Thalmor should be shaking in their boots, magic fearing Nords are coming to get them. Oh lets just hope the Dominion army which is full of the best archers in Tamriel and the most gifted of the Arcane don't attack us from a distance with magic because we're scared of it and have no battlemages. We also have no strategic sense or training, but we drove the Snow elves off, we can do the same to the Thalmor... Except we had highly gifted mages back then. We can't reach the Thalmor without invading another province, which we won't because we're afraid of upsetting Cyrodiil with violence. So we'll boast and say we're against the Thalmor, we drove them out of Skyrim, we sacked two of our own cities and killed many of our shield brothers and sisters, but we finally did it. We drove out the small Auxiliary Legion garrison and the handful of Thalmor Agents. It only made Windhelm bankrupt, the lasting hatred of many races and now we place Ulfric on the throne who will be just and fair. Even though we gave Ulfric complete power, the Pact of Chieftains no longer matter. We can throw that old tradition out of the window.
 
The Civil war isn't as easy as freedom and independence, it's about one man's ambition for the throne of Skyrim. It could of been done peacefully and without bloodshed, but that wasn't what Ulfric Stormcloak wanted, he wanted to be High King of Skyrim. The Empire did not simply roll over, there is a huge difference in accepting terms under the mere threat of war and after a long and destructive war. Skyrim did invite the Thalmor, the moment High King Istlod agreed to the terms of the treaty, thus placing his signature on the WGC also. High King Istlod whom Ulfric respected and all of the Jarls of Skyrim respected. The Thalmor have been in Skyrim for nearly thirty years, the issues with them have only begun in the last few months with the rise of the Stormcloak rebellion. Why wait nearly thirty years to bitch about something, the Thalmor have been there for awhile now. Most of the new generations have known nothing else except the WGC, unless you're over forty you don't even know what it was like before the Great War.

Exactly how could it be done peacefully and without all the bloodshed? The Empire would of never allowed a man like Ulfric to be High King because then Skyrim would be free from any form of Imperial control. While Torygg did showed interests in Ulfric's idea's about Skyrims Independence, but never took any action about it because he loved being showered with gold coin that was given to him by the Empire. Torygg was a corrupted High king that loved imperial coin more than his country. Ulfric had just about enough of this corrupted High King, and challenged him to a duel; a fight to the death. After it was over with the Empire slandered Ulric's name and accused him of murdering the High king in cold blood.

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The Thalmor are in Skyrim because of the Empire, nothing more. Read for your own self. This is what the Thalmor Justiciar tells you when you ask them what are they doing in Skyrim. It has nothing to do with High King Istlod but Emperor Titus Mede II. It was all about banning the worship of Talos which the Emperor himself signed to pause the Great war so they can spend the next 25+ years to recover.
 
Exactly how could it be done peacefully and without all the bloodshed? The Empire would of never allowed a man like Ulfric to be High King because then Skyrim would be free from any form of Imperial control. While Torygg did showed interests in Ulfric's idea's about Skyrims Independence, but never took any action about it because he loved being showered with gold coin that was given to him by the Empire. Torygg was a corrupted High king that loved imperial coin more than his country. Ulfric had just about enough of this corrupted High King, and challenged him to a duel; a fight to the death. After it was over with the Empire slandered Ulric's name and accused him of murdering the High king in cold blood.

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The Thalmor are in Skyrim because of the Empire, nothing more. Read for your own self. This is what the Thalmor Justiciar tells you when you ask them what are they doing in Skyrim. It has nothing to do with High King Istlod but Emperor Titus Mede II. It was all about banning the worship of Talos which the Emperor himself signed to pause the Great war so they can spend the next 25+ years to recover.

High King Torygg was not corrupt, he was well loved by his subjects who knew him. He was only High King for a very short time, he was young and in love, yet people like you say he is bad because he showed affection to his lover. Is it bad to treat someone you love like they're the world to you? He wasn't a grumpy cold bastard.

It wouldn't need Imperial control if they left peacefully, if trade relations remained opened, if they were still allies like they have been in the passed. There wouldn't be an issue, killing the High King who is the vassal of the Emperor isn't the way to go, an attack on him is an attack on the Emperor. Torygg respected Ulfric greatly and did indeed want to hear more, in fact Ulfric returned to what everyone was expecting to ask Torygg to delcare indenpendence. The High King to make that choice does need the support of his Jarls, Ulfric was a war hero and Torygg made the mistake believing Ulfric cared about Skyrim. Ulfric was far more interested in his chair.

The Thalmor are in Skyrim because of the Empire... Cyrodiil alone isn't the Empire mate. It isn't an Empire without other provinces, look up in a dictionary what an Empire is. Skyrim is the Empire, Cyrodiil is the Empire, High Rock is the Empire. It has everything to do with High King Istlod because he accepted it on behalf of Skyrim. Emperor Titus Mede II has no control on any of the terms of the treaty, lore wise that is all the Elder Council, since it also includes other provinces their rulers also had to agree. Hammerfell rejected the terms and are independent. The Emperor himself signed, probably forty people signed that treaty. You're simply blaming one man over something he didn't even have complete control. Politics in TES Empire is Elder Council handles treaties, policies and laws. The Emperor is a symbol, he is the Head of State, but he can't sign anything by himself, this is established within lore.
 
Torture rooms, executions etc is all I see with empire.

I just realized I never responded to this, you do know that Ulfric has a torture room also located in his palace?

Edit:

Executions isn't everything with the Empire, the crime you were accidentally charged with was accessory to High Treason and insurrection. The punishment for that crime is death, so I don't know what you would be expecting? A slap on the wrist?

Why do you think Lokir was pleading with the Stormcloaks to say you and him were not with them. The Stormcloaks were being sentenced to death, you and Lokir got caught up in it. If they denounced your involvement, the Imperials would have to look into it. One thing the Imperials are known for is their strict respect for the rule of law. So if there was the slightest mention of your non involvement, they would have to handle it.
 
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