Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Ivory]

Dagmar said this, actually.

Nope. Dagmar said THIS one is the unreliable one.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Skyrim


If anything, Dagmar supports both the Imperial Library and the UESP wiki

You ask me if there is any information about past Imperial presence, yet where is your information of him being a spy?

There's physical evidence pointing to it.

But I'm not using "my own head cannon" as you said I am. And I'm hardly "desperately attempting" to do anything. I'm writing my opinion on a forum website.

You are using your own Head canon. There is no lore evidence to indicate that the man is a spy. There is a spy in Markarth and with digging, yes you can figure this out.

What you're doing is seeing an object, and accusing a man of being something you have no evidence for. That's head canon

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Dagmar said this, actually.

Nope. Dagmar said THIS one is the unreliable one.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Skyrim


If anything, Dagmar supports both the Imperial Library and the UESP wiki

You ask me if there is any information about past Imperial presence, yet where is your information of him being a spy?

There's physical evidence pointing to it.

But I'm not using "my own head cannon" as you said I am. And I'm hardly "desperately attempting" to do anything. I'm writing my opinion on a forum website.

You are using your own Head canon. There is no lore evidence to indicate that the man is a spy. There is a spy in Markarth and with digging, yes you can figure this out.

What you're doing is seeing an object, and accusing a man of being something you have no evidence for. That's head canon

Ive already corrected my mistakes sir. Its still not head cannon.

 

[LegateFasendil]

LegateFasendil said: ↑

Mikulas Black-Blade said: ↑

LegateFasendil said: ↑

Ok. Let me ask you a hypothetical question if I may.

Let's say you that you are a Stormcloak and you saw this in Windhelm. Saw his Imperial flag and all the Imperial stuff he has up there. Would you let it go or would you go to Ulfric so that it could all be cleaned up (removed)?​

I made an edit. pls read.​

Ok, you did and I respect that.

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?​

No Id let it be until he actually committed a crime. Looking over the evidence hes most likely just an Imperial Veteran and I admit to my mistake.

I see. Thank you for that. Now I have another question for you, if you're willing. It's 3:00am and you're out on patrol around Windhelm. You come across Rolff and perhaps one or two of his friends in the grey quarter very loudly shouting and swearing and beating on houses which clearly are inhabited by Dunmer. What would you do? Should anything be done?

 

[LegateFasendil]

Mikulas Black-Blade said: ↑

Dagmar said this, actually.​

Nope. Dagmar said THIS one is the unreliable one.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Skyrim


If anything, Dagmar supports both the Imperial Library and the UESP wiki

Mikulas Black-Blade said: ↑

DrunkenMage said: ↑

You ask me if there is any information about past Imperial presence, yet where is your information of him being a spy?​

There's physical evidence pointing to it.

But I'm not using "my own head cannon" as you said I am. And I'm hardly "desperately attempting" to do anything. I'm writing my opinion on a forum website.​

You are using your own Head canon. There is no lore evidence to indicate that the man is a spy. There is a spy in Markarth and with digging, yes you can figure this out.

What you're doing is seeing an object, and accusing a man of being something you have no evidence for. That's head canon

Yeah guys can we please... skip the whole Dagmar and Head-Cannon thing? I mean, I get your point and I hope Mikulas does as well, but... well, I'm not going to say anything but I don't think that's going to help the situation much.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

LegateFasendil said: ↑

Mikulas Black-Blade said: ↑​

LegateFasendil said: ↑​

Ok. Let me ask you a hypothetical question if I may.​

​

Let's say you that you are a Stormcloak and you saw this in Windhelm. Saw his Imperial flag and all the Imperial stuff he has up there. Would you let it go or would you go to Ulfric so that it could all be cleaned up (removed)?​

I made an edit. pls read.

Ok, you did and I respect that.​

​

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?​

No Id let it be until he actually committed a crime. Looking over the evidence hes most likely just an Imperial Veteran and I admit to my mistake.

I see. Thank you for that. Now I have another question for you, if you're willing. It's 3:00am and you're out on patrol around Windhelm. You come across Rolff and perhaps one or two of his friends in the grey quarter very loudly shouting and swearing and beating on houses which clearly are inhabited by Dunmer. What would you do? Should anything be done?

Well they have their freedom however my moral compass might say escort him to Candlehearth Hall. Now if the Dunmer still seem to complain about their situation next time I won't be so hard on Rolff.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Nope. Dagmar said THIS one is the unreliable one.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Skyrim


If anything, Dagmar supports both the Imperial Library and the UESP wiki

No, she spoke out against UESP as well although this was about 400 pages ago.

You are using your own Head canon. There is no lore evidence to indicate that the man is a spy. There is a spy in Markarth and with digging, yes you can figure this out.

What you're doing is seeing an object, and accusing a man of being something you have no evidence for. That's head canon

And its head cannon to assume that the Imperials just randomly left a piece of Armor in his pub as Drunken said[/quote]

 

[LegateFasendil]

LegateFasendil said: ↑

LegateFasendil said: ↑​

Mikulas Black-Blade said: ↑​

LegateFasendil said: ↑​

Ok. Let me ask you a hypothetical question if I may.​

Let's say you that you are a Stormcloak and you saw this in Windhelm. Saw his Imperial flag and all the Imperial stuff he has up there. Would you let it go or would you go to Ulfric so that it could all be cleaned up (removed)?​

I made an edit. pls read.

​

Ok, you did and I respect that.​

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?​

No Id let it be until he actually committed a crime. Looking over the evidence hes most likely just an Imperial Veteran and I admit to my mistake.

I see. Thank you for that. Now I have another question for you, if you're willing. It's 3:00am and you're out on patrol around Windhelm. You come across Rolff and perhaps one or two of his friends in the grey quarter very loudly shouting and swearing and beating on houses which clearly are inhabited by Dunmer. What would you do? Should anything be done?​

Well they have their freedom however my moral compass might say escort him to Candlehearth Hall. Now if the Dunmer still seem to complain about their situation next time I won't be so hard on Rolff.

Excellent. Thank you. See, those weren't so bad?

Now. Here's another question. You have just been chased away from Whiterun -by the guard- for killing a Thalmor Soldier, armed and in uniform, who did nothing to you other than transiting the hold.

You steal a horse and are whisked away to the welcoming arms of Windhelm. Prior to killing the Thalmor, you were close with Jarl B whom you know to be among many things a good man who still allows Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech in his hold.

Naturally, you join the Stormcloaks and just before accepting the uniform and taking the vow, you hear Ulfric and Galmar plotting to make an example out of the Jarl and threatening his life, regardless of his policies and regardless of the fact that Ulfric is fighting for Freedom of Speech and Religion.

Would you have any second thoughts about joining the Stormcloaks or would it matter at all?

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

LegateFasendil said: ↑

LegateFasendil said: ↑​

Mikulas Black-Blade said: ↑​

LegateFasendil said: ↑​

Ok. Let me ask you a hypothetical question if I may.​

Let's say you that you are a Stormcloak and you saw this in Windhelm. Saw his Imperial flag and all the Imperial stuff he has up there. Would you let it go or would you go to Ulfric so that it could all be cleaned up (removed)?​

I made an edit. pls read.

​

Ok, you did and I respect that.​

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?​

No Id let it be until he actually committed a crime. Looking over the evidence hes most likely just an Imperial Veteran and I admit to my mistake.

I see. Thank you for that. Now I have another question for you, if you're willing. It's 3:00am and you're out on patrol around Windhelm. You come across Rolff and perhaps one or two of his friends in the grey quarter very loudly shouting and swearing and beating on houses which clearly are inhabited by Dunmer. What would you do? Should anything be done?​

Well they have their freedom however my moral compass might say escort him to Candlehearth Hall. Now if the Dunmer still seem to complain about their situation next time I won't be so hard on Rolff.

Excellent. Thank you. See, those weren't so bad?

Now. Here's another question. You have just been chased away from Whiterun -by the guard- for killing a Thalmor Soldier, armed and in uniform, who did nothing to you other than transiting the hold.

You steal a horse and are whisked away to the welcoming arms of Windhelm. Prior to killing the Thalmor, you were close with Jarl B whom you know to be among many things a good man who still allows Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech in his hold.

Naturally, you join the Stormcloaks and just before accepting the uniform and taking the vow, you hear Ulfric and Galmar plotting to make an example out of the Jarl and threatening his life, regardless of his policies and regardless of the fact that Ulfric is fighting for Freedom of Speech and Religion.

Would you have any second thoughts about joining the Stormcloaks or would it matter at all?

Possibly but in the end I felt as though Ulfric and Galmar actually treated this situation delicately.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Interesting.

Clearly we don't think alike however I appreciate you sharing your insight. Thank you!

 

[Raijin]

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?

Since I'm pro Stormcloak I thought I'd answer this as well.

My answer to you is yes. I would report such incident to Ulfric right away if I had personally seen the Imperial gear with an Imperial flag inside of the Dunmers tavern. As a loyal citizen of Windhelm It is my duty and responsibility to report any crimes that I've seen to the city guards. With such severity of spotting a potential Imperial spy I would take it up a notch, and infirm Ulfric right away, and not just the city guard.

Would you report such crime to the Jarl/General Tullius if it was the opposite? What if you as a loyal Imperial citizen witnessed something similar in Solitude? A group of Nords owning a home, and you saw what a appears to be a shrine of the Stormcloaks militia... With a Stromcloak gear and a Stormcloak flag dangling down from the walls, and with Talos.

Don't tell me that you would simply ignore it because you wouldn't. You're obligated to report any potentially terrorist activities to the proper authorities.

 

[Jeremius]

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?

Since I'm pro Stormcloak I thought I'd answer this as well.

My answer to you is yes. I would report such incident to Ulfric right away if I had personally seen the Imperial gear with an Imperial flag inside of the Dunmers tavern. As a loyal citizen of Windhelm It is my duty and responsibility to report any crimes that I've seen to the city guards. With such severity of spotting a potential Imperial spy I would take it up a notch, and infirm Ulfric right away, and not just the city guard.

Would you report such crime to the Jarl/General Tullius if it was the opposite? What if you as a loyal Imperial citizen witnessed something similar in Solitude? A group of Nords owning a home, and you saw what a appears to be a shrine of the Stormcloaks militia... With a Stromcloak gear and a Stormcloak flag dangling down from the walls, and with Talos.

Don't tell me that you would simply ignore it because you wouldn't. You're obligated to report any potentially terrorist activities to the proper authorities.

I would not, simply because I have no clue why it was there. Could be, as DM has said, that the corner club was an imperial outpost before the Civil War and that stuff got left. It is not hurting anyone either.

 

[Raijin]

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?

Since I'm pro Stormcloak I thought I'd answer this as well.

My answer to you is yes. I would report such incident to Ulfric right away if I had personally seen the Imperial gear with an Imperial flag inside of the Dunmers tavern. As a loyal citizen of Windhelm It is my duty and responsibility to report any crimes that I've seen to the city guards. With such severity of spotting a potential Imperial spy I would take it up a notch, and infirm Ulfric right away, and not just the city guard.

Would you report such crime to the Jarl/General Tullius if it was the opposite? What if you as a loyal Imperial citizen witnessed something similar in Solitude? A group of Nords owning a home, and you saw what a appears to be a shrine of the Stormcloaks militia... With a Stromcloak gear and a Stormcloak flag dangling down from the walls, and with Talos.

Don't tell me that you would simply ignore it because you wouldn't. You're obligated to report any potentially terrorist activities to the proper authorities.

I would not, simply because I have no clue why it was there. Could be, as DM has said, that the corner club was an imperial outpost before the Civil War and that stuff got left. It is not hurting anyone either.

Why is it still there?

 

[Dradin]

Wow, this thread is still going. Is DrunkenMage still overseeing this and showing all with faulty logic the light?

And by the way, this might stir up the pot...

The Reach belongs to the Forsworn!

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Wow, this thread is still going. Is DrunkenMage still overseeing this and showing all with faulty logic the light.

As by the way, this might stir up the pot...

The Reach belongs to the Forsworn!

I agree with you. You can have it for all I care.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Since I'm pro Stormcloak I thought I'd answer this as well.

My answer to you is yes. I would report such incident to Ulfric right away if I had personally seen the Imperial gear with an Imperial flag inside of the Dunmers tavern. As a loyal citizen of Windhelm It is my duty and responsibility to report any crimes that I've seen to the city guards. With such severity of spotting a potential Imperial spy I would take it up a notch, and infirm Ulfric right away, and not just the city guard.

Would you report such crime to the Jarl/General Tullius if it was the opposite? What if you as a loyal Imperial citizen witnessed something similar in Solitude? A group of Nords owning a home, and you saw what a appears to be a shrine of the Stormcloaks militia... With a Stromcloak gear and a Stormcloak flag dangling down from the walls, and with Talos.

Don't tell me that you would simply ignore it because you wouldn't. You're obligated to report any potentially terrorist activities to the proper authorities.

I would not, simply because I have no clue why it was there. Could be, as DM has said, that the corner club was an imperial outpost before the Civil War and that stuff got left. It is not hurting anyone either.

Why is it still there?

Thats exactly what I was saying. Thank you. Although after reviewing the evidence it is possible that he was a legionnaire in the Great War.

 

[LegateFasendil]

LegateFasendil said: ↑

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?​

Since I'm pro Stormcloak I thought I'd answer this as well.

My answer to you is yes. I would report such incident to Ulfric right away if I had personally seen the Imperial gear with an Imperial flag inside of the Dunmers tavern. As a loyal citizen of Windhelm It is my duty and responsibility to report any crimes that I've seen to the city guards. With such severity of spotting a potential Imperial spy I would take it up a notch, and infirm Ulfric right away, and not just the city guard.

Would you report such crime to the Jarl/General Tullius if it was the opposite? What if you as a loyal Imperial citizen witnessed something similar in Solitude? A group of Nords owning a home, and you saw what a appears to be a shrine of the Stormcloaks militia... With a Stromcloak gear and a Stormcloak flag dangling down from the walls, and with Talos.

Don't tell me that you would simply ignore it because you wouldn't. You're obligated to report any potentially terrorist activities to the proper authorities.

Interesting stand on the matter. Thank you Raijin.


Now. To answer your question. My answer is No. I wouldn't report it. I follow the example set by of all people, The Emperor. See, the Emperor never forced the WGC into people's private lives. If you have an ahh 'Stormcloak shrine' or whatever in your home, that's your business and your personal property. I believe in the concept of private property. This is if I was but a soldier.

Now then again - If I was part of some counter-operations unit, then of course that would be something worth noting but not reported to anyone outside of intelligence.

This goes along with what if they had a Shrine to Talos == Same result. Unless I was a Thalmor I'd keep whatever I saw to myself because I believe in citizen's right to privacy.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Jeremius said: ↑

Raijin said: ↑​

LegateFasendil said: ↑​

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?​

Since I'm pro Stormcloak I thought I'd answer this as well.

​

My answer to you is yes. I would report such incident to Ulfric right away if I had personally seen the Imperial gear with an Imperial flag inside of the Dunmers tavern. As a loyal citizen of Windhelm It is my duty and responsibility to report any crimes that I've seen to the city guards. With such severity of spotting a potential Imperial spy I would take it up a notch, and infirm Ulfric right away, and not just the city guard.​

​

Would you report such crime to the Jarl/General Tullius if it was the opposite? What if you as a loyal Imperial citizen witnessed something similar in Solitude? A group of Nords owning a home, and you saw what a appears to be a shrine of the Stormcloaks militia... With a Stromcloak gear and a Stormcloak flag dangling down from the walls, and with Talos.​

​

Don't tell me that you would simply ignore it because you wouldn't. You're obligated to report any potentially terrorist activities to the proper authorities.​

I would not, simply because I have no clue why it was there. Could be, as DM has said, that the corner club was an imperial outpost before the Civil War and that stuff got left. It is not hurting anyone either.
Why is it still there?

Are you advocating then that the Stormcloaks should enter his dwelling and remove it by force?

 

[Dradin]

This goes along with what if they had a Shrine to Talos == Same result. Unless I was a Thalmor I'd keep whatever I saw to myself because I believe in citizen's right to privacy.

You sir, are a noble one and deserve a medal. I'll give you rep instead.

Even if you are an imperial.

 

[LegateFasendil]

LegateFasendil said: ↑

This goes along with what if they had a Shrine to Talos == Same result. Unless I was a Thalmor I'd keep whatever I saw to myself because I believe in citizen's right to privacy. ​

You sir, are a noble one and deserve a medal. I'll give you rep instead.

Even if you are an imperial.

Thank you for your kindness.

However, it is the Empire that is noble, I am just a soldier.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Jeremius said: ↑

Raijin said: ↑​

LegateFasendil said: ↑​

Still have a question for you. If you saw this in his club house, as a Stormcloak, would you Report it to Ulfric because he should not have something like this or would you let it go?​

Since I'm pro Stormcloak I thought I'd answer this as well.

​

My answer to you is yes. I would report such incident to Ulfric right away if I had personally seen the Imperial gear with an Imperial flag inside of the Dunmers tavern. As a loyal citizen of Windhelm It is my duty and responsibility to report any crimes that I've seen to the city guards. With such severity of spotting a potential Imperial spy I would take it up a notch, and infirm Ulfric right away, and not just the city guard.​

​

Would you report such crime to the Jarl/General Tullius if it was the opposite? What if you as a loyal Imperial citizen witnessed something similar in Solitude? A group of Nords owning a home, and you saw what a appears to be a shrine of the Stormcloaks militia... With a Stromcloak gear and a Stormcloak flag dangling down from the walls, and with Talos.​

​

Don't tell me that you would simply ignore it because you wouldn't. You're obligated to report any potentially terrorist activities to the proper authorities.​

I would not, simply because I have no clue why it was there. Could be, as DM has said, that the corner club was an imperial outpost before the Civil War and that stuff got left. It is not hurting anyone either.
Why is it still there?

Are you advocating then that the Stormcloaks should enter his dwelling and remove it by force?

No hes just saying that it's a tad bit suspicious that it's still there, you know if he isn't a veteran.