Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

You may have missed the entire conversation I apparently had with myself on this thread about that. Why did they not do it earlier? Why did they wait to deal with it when they risked losing everything in the Civil War? Seems like the Empire only cares about controlling that mine.

There is no evidence I know of to tell me that they were going for that mine for the past however long it has been since the Markarth Incident. That tells me that they just now decided to take that mine, during a Civil War, where the owners are Stormcloak supporters. Sounds like it means more to get the silver in the mine away from the rebels, than slavery.

When Racism is the question, Imperials get up in arms about it, but when it becomes imprisonment/slavery, it takes you a decade or more to see that imprisonment is slavery and go after it? Odd priorities there.

You may have missed the fact the Empire was dealing with more serious problems. Cyrodiil was erupting into violence and Wayrest itself was lost in High Rock. Is it wrong that a single mine/prison wasn't on the highest priority?

It actually sounds like the Imperials were dealing with more pressing concerns. It took decades of sorting things out, how is it odd priorities? Should the Empire drop everything and focus on a mine? "Oh hey, the Empire is in chaos. But there is a mine in Markarth, lets ignore all other problems to tackle this one issue."

The Empire wasn't even paying attention to Skyrim, there was the tiny detail of preparing for the second round of the Great War. But, please do go on about trying to turn what the Stormcloaks are doing against the Empire.

"Stormcloaks enslaving natives of the Reach? Well obviously it is the Empire's fault hur dur."

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

You may have missed the entire conversation I apparently had with myself on this thread about that. Why did they not do it earlier? Why did they wait to deal with it when they risked losing everything in the Civil War? Seems like the Empire only cares about controlling that mine.

There is no evidence I know of to tell me that they were going for that mine for the past however long it has been since the Markarth Incident. That tells me that they just now decided to take that mine, during a Civil War, where the owners are Stormcloak supporters. Sounds like it means more to get the silver in the mine away from the rebels, than slavery.

When Racism is the question, Imperials get up in arms about it, but when it becomes imprisonment/slavery, it takes you a decade or more to see that imprisonment is slavery and go after it? Odd priorities there.

You may have missed the fact the Empire was dealing with more serious problems. Cyrodiil was erupting into violence and Wayrest itself was lost in High Rock. Is it wrong that a single mine/prison wasn't on the highest priority?

It actually sounds like the Imperials were dealing with more pressing concerns. It took decades of sorting things out, how is it odd priorities? Should the Empire drop everything and focus on a mine? "Oh hey, the Empire is in chaos. But there is a mine in Markarth, lets ignore all other problems to tackle this one issue."

The Empire wasn't even paying attention to Skyrim, there was the tiny detail of preparing for the second round of the Great War. But, please do go on about trying to turn what the Stormcloaks are doing against the Empire.

"Stormcloaks enslaving natives of the Reach? Well obviously it is the Empire's fault hur dur."

And there are more pressing concerns than this mine RIGHT NOW! You might have forgotten the CIVIL WAR! Take that down and there is no need to control the mine, UNLESS you simply want to control the mine to control it.

 

[DrunkenMage]

And there are more pressing concerns than this mine RIGHT NOW! You might have forgotten the CIVIL WAR! Take that down and there is no need to control the mine, UNLESS you simply want to control the mine to control it.

Tullius sent one Imperial Agent... So how are we forgetting the Civil War? The mine supplies Markarth with wealth. You think the Imperials care about the mine itself? It is a silver mine granted... but the Empire probably has hundreds.

I'm one of General Tullius's agents. I was sent to investigate the Treasury House and the Silver-Blood family. - Margret

I won't allow a group of Stormcloak sympathizers to own the prison to the most notorious criminals of the Reach. They say no one escapes. Why? Is it really that secure? - Margret's Journal

The Imperials were looking into the prison. They did want to take control of it, because they didn't trust the Stormcloaks. For good reason, they are corrupt and control the Forsworn as assassins, they also frame people to go to prison to work their mines.

Look at the last line in the journal quote. The Imperials have no idea what is going on in there, so they're investigating. It is all part of the Forsworn Conspiracy, when the Imperials started to get close to them they sent a Forsworn assassin.

Edit: The only mention about the silver itself, seems to be when Ulfric takes over Markarth or when Ulfric wants Markarth in Season Unending.

 

[Jeremius]

And there are more pressing concerns than this mine RIGHT NOW! You might have forgotten the CIVIL WAR! Take that down and there is no need to control the mine, UNLESS you simply want to control the mine to control it.

Tullius sent one Imperial Agent... So how are we forgetting the Civil War? The mine supplies Markarth with wealth. You think the Imperials care about the mine itself? It is a silver mine granted... but the Empire probably has hundreds.

I'm one of General Tullius's agents. I was sent to investigate the Treasury House and the Silver-Blood family. - Margret

I won't allow a group of Stormcloak sympathizers to own the prison to the most notorious criminals of the Reach. They say no one escapes. Why? Is it really that secure? - Margret's Journal

The Imperials were looking into the prison. They did want to take control of it, because they didn't trust the Stormcloaks. For good reason, they are corrupt and control the Forsworn as assassins, they also frame people to go to prison to work their mines.

Look at the last line in the journal quote. The Imperials have no idea what is going on in there, so they're investigating. It is all part of the Forsworn Conspiracy, when the Imperials started to get close to them they sent a Forsworn assassin.

Edit: The only mention about the silver itself, seems to be when Ulfric takes over Markarth or when Ulfric wants Markarth in Season Unending.

It is highly doubtful that this has any bearing on the Civil War, so I say drop it. I mean, it is not like the Silver-Bloods will release all the prisoners if the Empire wins to run amuck and muck everything up.

In the end, The Empire=control, Stormcloaks=freedom from control. Make your choice.

 

[DrunkenMage]

It is highly doubtful that this has any bearing on the Civil War, so I say drop it. I mean, it is not like the Silver-Bloods will release all the prisoners if the Empire wins to run amuck and muck everything up.

In the end, The Empire=control, Stormcloaks=freedom from control. Make your choice.

Then why were you going on about it on your alt account? There is no point in changing accounts and trying to be a voice of reason telling me to drop it, just because you have nothing left to say on it.

Why bring it up if it had no bearing in the first place? It certainly seemed useful when being used as an argument against Imperials... but since it lost that, it should be dropped.

Empire = Control. Stormcloaks = Freedom from control. How do you work that out... Do the Stormcloaks in their quest line not take over the province? Do they not occupy cities and replace rulers also? That is sounding like control isn't it?

 

[Rimfaxe96]

as apposed to "What is it Kinsmen?" or "Staying safe I hope"

The kinsman-dialogue comes from any Nord guard, whether he's Imperial or Stormcloak.
And I already know the dialogue from many major and minor NPCs very well, no need to assure me anything.

 

[Raijin]

But isn't Ulfric's steward inexperienced in regards to his job? I've heard him say that Ulfric values his untrained opinion from time to time. But Drunken Mage does have a point about Windhelm being one of the most "depressing" cities in all of the nine holds, though I usually chalk that up to the age of the city. Personally, I myself have wondered what Ulfric would do with the Grey Quarter after the war, though that aspect is never looked into by Bethesda like they did with Ulfric's replacement does.

Ulfrics steward inexperienced and untrained commentary was reference about the current war in Skyrim. It has nothing to do with his ability as to perform as Steward.

Windhelm is a depressed city solely base on the weather conditions. It is the most snow down city in all of Skyrim. It's wet/iced down and you see nothing but white.

 

[Raijin]

Ahhh hold up there bro-ham.

Rolff Stone-Fist is the brother of Ulfric's right hand man. You can't dismiss that anymore than we could say don't pay any attention to the Empire's Cousin, Victoria Vici. These people are 'part of the ruling family'. I don't care if he is or he izt wearing a Stormcloak shirt or a tattoo of a bear on his arse. He's close to the source and he isn't alone. The inn keeper is also racist. It's at the root of that city and those people put Ulfric on the throne -with voices crying out for vengeance- when he returned from Markarth. People like Rolff want Ulfric to be king for a reason. Have you sat down and had fellowship with Mr Rolff after beating his head in? Remember when he says the part about how the High King never asked anyone before letting the Dark Elves in? Like that shopkeeper dude in Falkreath, it's the same deal with him. He's not a Stormcloak soldier, he's a supporter and a sympathizer. That's what Rolff is because the Stormcloak agenda justifies his feelings. I suppose the fact that he's with a former Stormcloak soldier while berating that Dark Elf is no coincidence either.

He don't have to get on his knees for Ulfric to be in his corner... just one of his sumpathizers. I would think a true Stormcloak would be ok with something like this because many of the good folks at club Stormcloak have separate feelings, but what they all has in common is that all things Empire including the Gov has to be wiped clean and their people put in charge because of the 'mistakes' of the past.

***

I'm not going to hate on Ulfric. I've done enough of that in my day. Ok, Ulfric's not the worst.

***

Dude, you are the last person on here to be talking to people about judgement. I've read some of your posts man. Just like Elisif being forced to marry someone is 'thinking outside the box'. You know, you Stormcloaks are like, "Killing the Empire and anyone is not with us is against us" and it's like this is the only way. No man, it's not the only way.

If anything... look. Stormcloaks are the ones not thinking outside the box. Except for those few of you who are like, "Well we'll rebuild Skyrim and follow our hearts" Ok, yeah those guys are thinking outside the box. However ~ Most of the time, this is not the case. Because even for those guys there, Ulfric is going to do whatever Ulfric wants. You understand? So really, the out of the box thinking will not be allowed by the Stormcloaks. For example...

When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen.

Supporting the EMPIRE is not necessarily thinking outside the box, but WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Understand now? Ulfric's cause is charismatic, kind of like a Religious following in a way. Which I don't care if that's your thing... but when your heart is full of one man's words and his vision you're not going to want to think outside the box. You can't, it's against the rules.

The Empire on the other hand, what do they think about... #1 Actually spending their own damn money to fix Skyrim's problems... #2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric... #3 Trying to think their way out of their problems rather than throw blood at their problems and I could on. I could go on and on and on about this because I'm tired of being judged as an Imperial when I KNOW I've damn well done more than enough to try and meet the Stormcloaks half way and no I am not just talking about on this forum.

And lastly, ULFIC who decided *by himself* there was no other way for Nords to resolve their differences with the Empir and he is also the one who started killing people. FURTHERMORE, Ulfric also FORCED his way on the Nords by not allowing the Moot to meet. Aside from this action being treason, any peaceful solution that could have been worked out along with your 'outside box thinking' all was flushed down the toilet by your man, Ulfric Stormcloak.

Tell me more about how the Imperials don't think outside the box.

Damn bro (ham) you've went on a typing frenzy lol

Rolff does not represent the Stormcloaks no matter who he is related to. He maybe a Stormcloak sympathizer and a supporter, but his actions does not and should not represent the morals of what the Stormcloaks represents.

Solaf from Falkreath is a former Stormcloak solider, and when you first meet him he says this: "Well met. Unlike my brother, I've no dislike of strangers. Met lots of 'em while I was a Stormcloak." and then he says this when you ask him about being a Stormcloak: "I was once, but not any more. I was wounded in a skirmish up near Windhelm. This was years ago, mind you. Now, maybe I don't pick up a blade in Ulfric's name no more, but I still hold with his ideals. Skyrim is Nord land, and we ought to rule it. We don't need no help from the Empire on that count."

Ralof mentions this as a current Stormcloak solider: Ever wonder if maybe we should a call a truce with the Imperials and join forces for just a little while take care of some of these dragons?

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000e175c

So yeah. The Stormcloaks aren't as bad as you think they are.

As far as Elisif and marriage goes. Don't you think it's a good idea for her and Ulfric to engage in political marriage? This would end the civil war in matter of seconds. Elisif followers and Ulfric followers wouldn't have a reason to fight once the two parties get married.

 

[Raijin]

That drunken lout is still acting on what he believes is the Stormcloak's best interests, he is one of their biggest supporters. The point is the Stormcloaks themselves do nothing about him, his behavior is either ignored or accepted.

The job of a Court Steward is to run the Hold. Are we to fault Elisif for her court actually doing their duty? But we forgive Ulfric because he isn't lazy and has his steward do nothing... Is that what going for? A good Jarl does nothing about his Hold, not even has his steward do things.

Markarth's problems are coming from Stormcloak supporters... surprise. The Silver-Bloods are in power from that mine, it supplies them with wealth. Let us not forget you argued against the Empire when they tried to take the deed to the mine. So we have now made an understanding that two depressing and oppressive cities have one thing in common... Stormcloaks at the heart of the issue.

Like I said to LegateFasendil He maybe a Stormcloak sympathizer but he isn't part of the Stormcloaks. He's just a drunken lout.

What are you talking? Ulfric's steward does do stuffs in the hold. He hired and gave authorization to the Dragonborn to investigate the murders in his hold. He entrusted the Dragonborn to give him full report, and even went over to one of the guards, and had the court wizard arrested for the murders.

The Markarth problems are coming from a corrupted IMPERIAL Jarl who is indulging himself in gold coin.

Rearek: "Igmund, we need to talk about the Silver-Blood family."
Igmund: "What about them? They seem loyal enough."
Rearek: "Loyal? Thongvor supports Ulfric and his Stormcloaks! We should imprison the entire family as a precaution."
Faleen: "I second that, Igmund. Who knows what that family will do for power? They could be working with the Forsworn, for all we know."
Igmund: "Enough! We can't imprison the very people that own the jail we would be throwing them into. The Silver-Blood family are to be left alone, am I clear?"
Faleen: "Yes, my Jarl."
Rearek: "Yes, my Jarl."

 

[Tyer032392]

DrunkenMage and Jeremy Stone

One major factor that you two seem to be completely missing about the Reach and its strategic attributes to both the Imperials and the Stormcloaks is not the defensive attributes, but all the Silver and Gold mines located in the Reach. This one factor makes the Reach one of the most profitable holds in Skyrim, as the silver and gold mined from the Reach can be used to hire more soldiers for either side. The mines that I am talking about is Kolseggr Mine which contains 17 deposits of Gold Ore, and Cidhna Mine, which provides the vast majority of ore in Skyrim. I've also seem to remember another mine that burrowed into a barrow, which contains a hefty amount of Moonstone ore as well.

Edit: I know this has little bearing on the conversation between racism versus slavery, but it is an interesting thing none the less, and is a very reasonable idea as to why neither side is very well interested in shutting down the mine.

 

[Jeremius]

It is highly doubtful that this has any bearing on the Civil War, so I say drop it. I mean, it is not like the Silver-Bloods will release all the prisoners if the Empire wins to run amuck and muck everything up.

In the end, The Empire=control, Stormcloaks=freedom from control. Make your choice.

Then why were you going on about it on your alt account? There is no point in changing accounts and trying to be a voice of reason telling me to drop it, just because you have nothing left to say on it.

Why bring it up if it had no bearing in the first place? It certainly seemed useful when being used as an argument against Imperials... but since it lost that, it should be dropped.

Empire = Control. Stormcloaks = Freedom from control. How do you work that out... Do the Stormcloaks in their quest line not take over the province? Do they not occupy cities and replace rulers also? That is sounding like control isn't it?

What makes you think that? Just because I am not on when that account is on? Maybe I do not get on a lot. If that person said they were me, they were probably lying for laughs. I do not think any number of accounts belong to you just because they do not post for any length of time when you are active.

And when you think about it, nothing has any real bearing on the Civil War. Racism? who cares, it is all over Skyrim, not just in the Stormcloaks.

What I mean in the last part is that the Empire wants to force Skyrim to follow ALL it's laws, even one they "accepted" without actually accepting it. The Stormcloaks want to get rid of that law.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Ahhh hold up there bro-ham.

Rolff Stone-Fist is the brother of Ulfric's right hand man. You can't dismiss that anymore than we could say don't pay any attention to the Empire's Cousin, Victoria Vici. These people are 'part of the ruling family'. I don't care if he is or he izt wearing a Stormcloak shirt or a tattoo of a bear on his arse. He's close to the source and he isn't alone. The inn keeper is also racist. It's at the root of that city and those people put Ulfric on the throne -with voices crying out for vengeance- when he returned from Markarth. People like Rolff want Ulfric to be king for a reason. Have you sat down and had fellowship with Mr Rolff after beating his head in? Remember when he says the part about how the High King never asked anyone before letting the Dark Elves in? Like that shopkeeper dude in Falkreath, it's the same deal with him. He's not a Stormcloak soldier, he's a supporter and a sympathizer. That's what Rolff is because the Stormcloak agenda justifies his feelings. I suppose the fact that he's with a former Stormcloak soldier while berating that Dark Elf is no coincidence either.

He don't have to get on his knees for Ulfric to be in his corner... just one of his sumpathizers. I would think a true Stormcloak would be ok with something like this because many of the good folks at club Stormcloak have separate feelings, but what they all has in common is that all things Empire including the Gov has to be wiped clean and their people put in charge because of the 'mistakes' of the past.

***

I'm not going to hate on Ulfric. I've done enough of that in my day. Ok, Ulfric's not the worst.

***

Dude, you are the last person on here to be talking to people about judgement. I've read some of your posts man. Just like Elisif being forced to marry someone is 'thinking outside the box'. You know, you Stormcloaks are like, "Killing the Empire and anyone is not with us is against us" and it's like this is the only way. No man, it's not the only way.

If anything... look. Stormcloaks are the ones not thinking outside the box. Except for those few of you who are like, "Well we'll rebuild Skyrim and follow our hearts" Ok, yeah those guys are thinking outside the box. However ~ Most of the time, this is not the case. Because even for those guys there, Ulfric is going to do whatever Ulfric wants. You understand? So really, the out of the box thinking will not be allowed by the Stormcloaks. For example...

When you're going into that Nord ruin trying to find that dusty, cursed old crown, Hadvar says something like, "Well.... uhhh... maybe the Stormcloaks & Imperials should put aside our diff and work together...." Ok, you will NEVER here that pl*ps or any other pl*ps like that pl*ps come out of the mouth of a Stormcloak. NO. Not going to happen.

Supporting the EMPIRE is not necessarily thinking outside the box, but WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Understand now? Ulfric's cause is charismatic, kind of like a Religious following in a way. Which I don't care if that's your thing... but when your heart is full of one man's words and his vision you're not going to want to think outside the box. You can't, it's against the rules.

The Empire on the other hand, what do they think about... #1 Actually spending their own damn money to fix Skyrim's problems... #2 Finding ways of settling things peacefully with Ulfric... #3 Trying to think their way out of their problems rather than throw blood at their problems and I could on. I could go on and on and on about this because I'm tired of being judged as an Imperial when I KNOW I've damn well done more than enough to try and meet the Stormcloaks half way and no I am not just talking about on this forum.

And lastly, ULFIC who decided *by himself* there was no other way for Nords to resolve their differences with the Empir and he is also the one who started killing people. FURTHERMORE, Ulfric also FORCED his way on the Nords by not allowing the Moot to meet. Aside from this action being treason, any peaceful solution that could have been worked out along with your 'outside box thinking' all was flushed down the toilet by your man, Ulfric Stormcloak.

Tell me more about how the Imperials don't think outside the box.

Damn bro (ham) you've went on a typing frenzy lol

Rolff does not represent the Stormcloaks no matter who he is related to. He maybe a Stormcloak sympathizer and a supporter, but his actions does not and should not represent the morals of what the Stormcloaks represents.

Solaf from Falkreath is a former Stormcloak solider, and when you first meet him he says this: "Well met. Unlike my brother, I've no dislike of strangers. Met lots of 'em while I was a Stormcloak." and then he says this when you ask him about being a Stormcloak: "I was once, but not any more. I was wounded in a skirmish up near Windhelm. This was years ago, mind you. Now, maybe I don't pick up a blade in Ulfric's name no more, but I still hold with his ideals. Skyrim is Nord land, and we ought to rule it. We don't need no help from the Empire on that count."

Ralof mentions this as a current Stormcloak solider: Ever wonder if maybe we should a call a truce with the Imperials and join forces for just a little while take care of some of these dragons?

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000e175c

So yeah. The Stormcloaks aren't as bad as you think they are.

As far as Elisif and marriage goes. Don't you think it's a good idea for her and Ulfric to engage in political marriage? This would end the civil war in matter of seconds. Elisif followers and Ulfric followers wouldn't have a reason to fight once the two parties get married.

It ain't about what I think it's about what is and isn't. The Empire has it's problems but is still Talos's Empire. The Stormcloaks claim to fight for freedom yet aren't producing any solutions.

And as for Elisif I think Ulfric has 'ravaged' her life enough as it is, same as he's done to the Forsworn. I think after all Ulfric is done her being forced to marry him is in bad taste.

 

[LegateFasendil]

That drunken lout is still acting on what he believes is the Stormcloak's best interests, he is one of their biggest supporters. The point is the Stormcloaks themselves do nothing about him, his behavior is either ignored or accepted.

The job of a Court Steward is to run the Hold. Are we to fault Elisif for her court actually doing their duty? But we forgive Ulfric because he isn't lazy and has his steward do nothing... Is that what going for? A good Jarl does nothing about his Hold, not even has his steward do things.

Markarth's problems are coming from Stormcloak supporters... surprise. The Silver-Bloods are in power from that mine, it supplies them with wealth. Let us not forget you argued against the Empire when they tried to take the deed to the mine. So we have now made an understanding that two depressing and oppressive cities have one thing in common... Stormcloaks at the heart of the issue.

Like I said to LegateFasendil He maybe a Stormcloak sympathizer but he isn't part of the Stormcloaks. He's just a drunken lout.

What are you talking? Ulfric's steward does do stuffs in the hold. He hired and gave authorization to the Dragonborn to investigate the murders in his hold. He entrusted the Dragonborn to give him full report, and even went over to one of the guards, and had the court wizard arrested for the murders.

The Markarth problems are coming from a corrupted IMPERIAL Jarl who is indulging himself in gold coin.

Rearek: "Igmund, we need to talk about the Silver-Blood family."
Igmund: "What about them? They seem loyal enough."
Rearek: "Loyal? Thongvor supports Ulfric and his Stormcloaks! We should imprison the entire family as a precaution."
Faleen: "I second that, Igmund. Who knows what that family will do for power? They could be working with the Forsworn, for all we know."
Igmund: "Enough! We can't imprison the very people that own the jail we would be throwing them into. The Silver-Blood family are to be left alone, am I clear?"
Faleen: "Yes, my Jarl."
Rearek: "Yes, my Jarl."

Yeah but the problem with that is he can still support them. Just because he's not on a battlefield doesn't mean he's not fighting for them.

 

[Raijin]

It ain't about what I think it's about what is and isn't. The Empire has it's problems but is still Talos's Empire. The Stormcloaks claim to fight for freedom yet aren't producing any solutions.

And as for Elisif I think Ulfric has 'ravaged' her life enough as it is, same as he's done to the Forsworn. I think after all Ulfric is done her being forced to marry him is in bad taste.

I don't think it's in bad taste for the both to have a political marriage. It will solve a lot of problems in Skyrim. Once married Elisif will become Queen and Ulfric will become High King once the moot declares it. Both parties would be happy with their political titles, and both can benefit from each other a lot, especially since Ulfric would be great asset dealing with Skyrim's military (The Stormcloaks).

Yeah but the problem with that is he can still support them. Just because he's not on a battlefield doesn't mean he's not fighting for them.

So what's your point? Hes just a sympathizer... that's all. He's not given any orders from the Stormcloaks to do a specific task, like rounding up a few prisoners to be interrogated. Everything that he does he do it for himself, and if you want to call him an asshole then do it. Don't blame the Stormcloaks for this guys behavior because he is not their responsibility, since hes not a Stormcloak.

 

[Vatonage]

Interesting conversation. The way I see it, either is better than nothing. Letting the Legion and Stormcloaks get weaker over a silly civil war is what the Thalmor want. If the Empire reunites Skyrim then its implied that they make plans to strike back at the Thalmor in some way. If the Stormcloaks liberate it then Ulfric surely intends to take some action against the Aldmeri Dominion. Either way, no more civil fighting, Thalmor loses. Both sides are terrible in some way and right in others, but if you think the Stormcloaks are racist, the Thalmor even worse.

 

[LegateFasendil]

It ain't about what I think it's about what is and isn't. The Empire has it's problems but is still Talos's Empire. The Stormcloaks claim to fight for freedom yet aren't producing any solutions.

And as for Elisif I think Ulfric has 'ravaged' her life enough as it is, same as he's done to the Forsworn. I think after all Ulfric is done her being forced to marry him is in bad taste.

I don't think it's in bad taste for the both to have a political marriage. It will solve a lot of problems in Skyrim. Once married Elisif will become Queen and Ulfric will become High King once the moot declares it. Both parties would be happy with their political titles, and both can benefit from each other a lot, especially since Ulfric would be great asset dealing with Skyrim's military (The Stormcloaks).

Yeah but the problem with that is he can still support them. Just because he's not on a battlefield doesn't mean he's not fighting for them.

So what's your point? Hes just a sympathizer... that's all. He's not given any orders from the Stormcloaks to do a specific task, like rounding up a few prisoners to be interrogated. Everything that he does he do it for himself, and if you want to call him an asshole then do it. Don't blame the Stormcloaks for this guys behavior because he is not their responsibility, since hes not a Stormcloak.

Forced Political Marriage you mean? No, sometimes a political marriage is a good thing. But this is not one of those times. You're talking about forcing Elisif to marry 'him'. After 'he' basically found a way to get away with murdering her husband. Now she has to share her bed with 'him' as well and have his kids. Arrggghhhh

Thank God I chose Jarl B over Ulfric.

OMFG words just... I don't know how to express just how vile the idea of Elisif being forced to marry 'him' truly is. At least for me.

And you know, say you know... while we're at it, why not just start forcing everyone to start doing things "For the good of the party" I mean... country. Wait lemme think... hasn't that been tried before? And how many people did Stalin and Mao kill because of it?

And furthermore... why does everyone 'owe' Ulfric? I don't seem to get this... didn't get an email or postcard or instant message not a fing thing. I mean, really, the only thing we've seen of Ulfric's policies is how elegant he can sit on a throne and how terrible his city is, with things becoming worse when he took over (ie grey quarter), they have a serial killer on the loose, his non Nord citizens being abused and harassed daily/nightly, bandits roaming the land attacking non-Nords (Bandits who are possibly in his service) and now the Lord of his mightiness doesn't even have time to do his Civic duties.

But he's going to be High King right?

 

[LegateFasendil]

Another thing on a sep matter, you know... you can defend the Stormcloak cause all you want and even if *somehow* it came out as being justified in the wash, the cause isn't the problem.

Because see, Ulfric is like a Trojan Horse. Willing or unwilling the man is being used by the Thalmor who conditioned him thru his 'handler' Elenwen... He was at Markarth for a reason and it wasn't no mercy mission either.

The Empire is one way or another getting rid of it's problem child, Titus Mede II, who signed the WGC. Although it's kind of sad in a way because he actually is a pretty cool guy. I honestly haven't said that enough. But Titus Mede is throwing himself on the sword to save the Empire, same as Uriel VII. He could have fought back or done whatever to escape but he didn't. And don't tell me Ulfric would do the same because his cause is centered around him... it's all about him and his personal pain.

The way I see it, you can just take the hit and support the Empire with the promise of a new Emperor and an Elder Council that is demanding change or you can 'fight the good fight' for something that may be Ulfric's cause, but it's the Thalmor's war.

I suspect the Thalmor may be behind this so called "Stormcloak rebellion" and the Dossier is the proof. The Empire derails the Thalmor's long term goals in Skyrim, Ulfric's rebellion victory or not, will not hinder the Thalmor.

All the Stormcloak rebellion truly is, is a Trojan horse and there is no simple, fast, or quick and easy way to freedom again. Faith and perseverance is the only means by which to defeat an enemy like the Thalmor who think in long terms.

Freedom is not free and Ulfric is making all these promises for a cause that really... ain't even his because the Thalmor are funding it and at one time or another the Thalmor planned it. He's just their point man, totally expendable. Ulfric's only purpose is to cause enough problems to kill the Empire.

 

[Vatonage]

Another thing on a sep matter, you know... you can defend the Stormcloak cause all you want and even if *somehow* it came out as being justified in the wash, the cause isn't the problem.

Because see, Ulfric is like a Trojan Horse. Willing or unwilling the man is being used the Thalmor who conditioned him thru his 'handler' Elenwen... He was at Markarth for a reason and it wasn't no mercy mission either.

The Empire is one way or another getting rid of it's problem child, Titus Mede II, who signed the WGC. Although it's kind of sad in a way because he actually is a pretty cool guy. I honestly haven't said that enough. But Titus Mede is throwing himself on the sword to save the Empire, same as Uriel VII. He could have fought back or done whatever to escape but he didn't. And don't tell me Ulfric would do the same because his cause is centered around him... it's all about him and his personal pain.

The way I see it, you can just take the hit and support the Empire with the promise of a new Emperor and an Elder Council that is demanding change or you can 'fight the good fight' for something that may be Ulfric's cause, but it's the Thalmor's war.

I suspect the Thalmor may be behind this so called "Stormcloak rebellion" and the Dossier is the proof. The Empire derails the Thalmor's long term goals in Skyrim, Ulfric's rebellion victory or not, will not hinder the Thalmor.

All the Stormcloak rebellion truly is, is a Trojan horse and there is no simple, fast, or quick and easy way to freedom again. Faith and perseverance is the only means by which to defeat an enemy like the Thalmor who think in long terms.

Freedom is not free and Ulfric is making all these promises for a cause that really... ain't even his because the Thalmor are funding it and at one time or another the Thalmor planned it. He's just their point man, totally expendable. Ulfric's only purpose is to cause enough problems to kill the Empire.

The dossier is just the Thalmor being arrogant and thinking they own Ulfric. The only way to stop the Thalmor would be to stop the war. Therefore tipping the balance that each side has to end it, a unified Skyrim or an independent Skyrim is not good for the Thalmor either way.

 

[Jeremius]

Interesting conversation. The way I see it, either is better than nothing. Letting the Legion and Stormcloaks get weaker over a silly civil war is what the Thalmor want. If the Empire reunites Skyrim then its implied that they make plans to strike back at the Thalmor in some way. If the Stormcloaks liberate it then Ulfric surely intends to take some action against the Aldmeri Dominion. Either way, no more civil fighting, Thalmor loses. Both sides are terrible in some way and right in others, but if you think the Stormcloaks are racist, the Thalmor even worse.

and what if it is not what you, as the player, would do? What if it is not that bad for the PC?

 

[Vatonage]

and what if it is not what you, as the player, would do? What if it is not that bad for the PC?

Then don't choose at all. Let Skyrim fall to endless civil wars, ever ignorant of the Altmer threat that threatens to take it back for themselves yet again.