Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Dagmar]

I never said that he wasn't racist, just that he was not actively enforcing them, by, say, putting guards between the grey quarter and the rest of Windhelm to keep the dunmer from walking around the city.

That's not what you said. You said that the segregation is restricted to a residential policy. No one has claimed that the Dunmer aren't allowed to freely roam through the city so if you're trying to attribute the lack of guards enforcing a non-existent element of the segregation policy as proof that Ulfric doesn't uphold the residential segregation policy your argument is just full of fantastic failure.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

This topic has been talked to death, and everyone's starting to sound a bit stupid to me now. Maybe this thread should be laid to rest as an example of what a forum thread shouldn't become.

 

[Scotty Piffin']

I never said that he wasn't racist, just that he was not actively enforcing them, by, say, putting guards between the grey quarter and the rest of Windhelm to keep the dunmer from walking around the city.

Lol the post you quoted agreeing with me, you left out the part that disagreed with this. You don't need to enforce something with soldiers for a policy to be racist. If he wasn't supporting them why wouldn't he take them off the books?

 

[Jeremius]

Lol the post you quoted agreeing with me, you left out the part that disagreed with this. You don't need to enforce something with soldiers for a policy to be racist. If he wasn't supporting them why wouldn't he take them off the books?

Never said he did not support them, once again, I said it was just that he was not ACTIVELY enforcing segregation, as in making sure that the elves stayed in the Grey quarter.

Anyways, back to High treason. If I stabbed the Jarl of Falkreath, but not kill him, would it be treason against that hold, because Sddgeir(SP?) is the allegiated sovereign of the hold?

 

[azali100]

Never said he did not support them, once again, I said it was just that he was not ACTIVELY enforcing segregation, as in making sure that the elves stayed in the Grey quarter.

Anyways, back to High treason. If I stabbed the Jarl of Falkreath, but not kill him, would it be treason against that hold, because Sddgeir(SP?) is the allegiated sovereign of the hold?

Yes

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

This topic has been talked to death, and everyone's starting to sound a bit stupid to me now. Maybe this thread should be laid to rest as an example of what a forum thread shouldn't become.

And if this thread was closed, 5 more would pop up to take it's place. Like some form of Hydra. And how is EVERYONE sounding stupid? @Dagmar's points come right from the Lore. The stupidity comes from the people who are arguing against the established Lore.

 

[Raijin]

Dear people who think that the Stormcloaks could beat the Thalmor,

Spawn 15 Thalmor soldiers and 5 Thalmor Mages.

Then spawn 20 Stormcloak soldiers.

See who wins then?

If were going to play this game then lets have at it. OK so after the Civil war Ulfric Stormcloak becomes the next High King of Skyrim. He can draft the college of Winterhold to aid in the incoming war against the Thalmor. The college can be a great benefit to not only train Stormcloak soldiers to use magic, but to also to help enchant their weapons and armor with appropriate form of magic.

So spawn those 20 Stormcloak soldiers and modify them so they're carrying enchantment weapons and armor that can resist magic in the highest possible amount.

You're just making up the worst excuses ever. "Yeah, the Dunmer and Argonians lead great lives, because they're kept safe from bandits." I sneered when I read that. That's like saying that Blacks in the 1800's didn't have it rough because their masters kept them safe from the KKK.

It's true that they have good lives. Their not forced to live in the city you know. Ulfric doesn't have sword to their throats and threaten them that if they leave he will cut their throats open. If the Dunmers and the Argonians live such plopsty lives then they can simply pack up their belongings and move... perhaps a place like Riften would better suit them... after all I'm sure Maven would offer those Dunmers a job in her meadry while Bolli can offer the lizard people a job in his fishery business... and Haelga can very much contribute by keeping the male Dunmers and the Argonians smiling happy with her serious worship of the Dibellan Arts.


Oh and your example of blacks being protected by their masters is laughable. Neither the Argonians or the Dunmers are slaves.

 

[123]

If were going to play this game then lets have at it. OK so after the Civil war Ulfric Stormcloak becomes the next High King of Skyrim. He can draft the college of Winterhold to aid in the incoming war against the Thalmor. The college can be a great benefit to not only train Stormcloak soldiers to use magic, but to also to help enchant their weapons and armor with appropriate form of magic.

So spawn those 20 Stormcloak soldiers and modify them so they're carrying enchantment weapons and armor that can resist magic in the highest possible amount.



It's true that they have good lives. Their not forced to live in the city you know. Ulfric doesn't have sword to their throats and threaten them that if they leave he will cut their throats open. If the Dunmers and the Argonians live such plopsty lives then they can simply pack up their belongings and move... perhaps a place like Riften would better suit them... after all I'm sure Maven would offer those Dunmers a job in her meadry while Bolli can offer the lizard people a job in his fishery business... and Haelga can very much contribute by keeping the male Dunmers and the Argonians smiling happy with her serious worship of the Dibellan Arts.


Oh and your example of blacks being protected by their masters is laughable. Neither the Argonians or the Dunmers are slaves.

You are still just making up little stories for yourself.

Your bizarre idea that the College of Winterhold would be willing to train a weak army that is, for the most part, against magic, is ridiculous at best. The College of Winterhold exists for the sole purpose of providing a safe-haven for mages that get persecuted and attacked in the world. Most Nords hold a firm stance against Necromancy and Magic, you know. The Stormcloaks use all melee because they don't like magic, not because they don't know how.

You are trying to justify segregation by use of comparison to a worst-case-scenario. Why don't we also try to justify the Holocaust? It's a stretch, but wouldn't you rather be hiding in an attic from Nazis then be lost in a heated desert with no water? The Jews in the Holocaust led good lives.

 

[Jeremius]

And if this thread was closed, 5 more would pop up to take it's place. Like some form of Hydra. And how is EVERYONE sounding stupid? @Dagmar's points come right from the Lore. The stupidity comes from the people who are arguing against the established Lore.

I have never once, recently argued that Ulfric was not a traitor, just that he was not a traitor to my character/me, because it has not affect me/my character personally. Never once recently have a said that Ulfric is not a racist, just that he was not actively preventing the Dunmer from walking around/working within Windhelm.

Are these opinions against lore because it does not use the lore Dagmar has used to try to convert people?

 

[Crooksin]

If were going to play this game then lets have at it. OK so after the Civil war Ulfric Stormcloak becomes the next High King of Skyrim. He can draft the college of Winterhold to aid in the incoming war against the Thalmor. The college can be a great benefit to not only train Stormcloak soldiers to use magic, but to also to help enchant their weapons and armor with appropriate form of magic.

So spawn those 20 Stormcloak soldiers and modify them so they're carrying enchantment weapons and armor that can resist magic in the highest possible amount.

Its like you don't know anything about the Nords. Do you really think a military force based on Nord traditions and ideals (and completely comprised of Nords too, cough*racist*cough) would be ever so willing to learn magic, something they look down upon considerably, completely reversing their customs? (and we all know what happens when someone reverses a Nord's customs i.e Talos worship)

It's true that they have good lives. Their not forced to live in the city you know. Ulfric doesn't have sword to their throats and threaten them that if they leave he will cut their throats open.

It still doesn't change how its racist lmao

If the Dunmers and the Argonians live such plopsty lives then they can simply pack up their belongings and move... perhaps a place like Riften would better suit them... after all I'm sure Maven would offer those Dunmers a job in her meadry while Bolli can offer the lizard people a job in his fishery business... and Haelga can very much contribute by keeping the male Dunmers and the Argonians smiling happy with her serious worship of the Dibellan Arts.

Okay first of all, do you know how hard it is to move? Especially in a place like that. You've said yourself they keep them safe from all the bandits and monsters along the roads which I'm sure a lot of them would meet their fate on the journey to Riften. Contradiction in your argument, but I'm not surprised.

Second, you can't just take a quarter of a city and move it to another, neither one would be able to support that migration.

Oh and your example of blacks being protected by their masters is laughable. Neither the Argonians or the Dunmers are slaves.

There was HEAVY segregation of blacks in America when they weren't slaves, its not a far stretch to compare the two. I don't know how you could openly support a racist policy like this and still think your argument holds merit.

 

[Raijin]

Your bizarre idea that the College of Winterhold would be willing to train a weak army that is, for the most part, against magic, is ridiculous at best. The College of Winterhold exists for the sole purpose of providing a safe-haven for mages that get persecuted and attacked in the world. Most Nords hold a firm stance against Necromancy and Magic, you know. The Stormcloaks use all melee because they don't like magic, not because they don't know how.

The nords are hypocrites. They say they hate magic but deep inside they respect it. Look at the weapon Ulfric has... It's an enchanted war axe. They also don't mind requesting services from Sergius Turrianus. The College of winterhold isn't there for the sole purpose of safe haven for mages. It's also there to help those who wants to advanced their magic casting skills. Necromancy is taboo. it's considered disrespectful to the dead. It's naturally distasteful in social life... and therefore consider unacceptable in society.

You are trying to justify segregation by use of comparison to a worst-case-scenario. Why don't we also try to justify the Holocaust? It's a stretch, but wouldn't you rather be hiding in an attic from Nazis then be lost in a heated desert with no water? The Jews in the Holocaust led good lives.

Oh wow. I can't believe you've just said that. How incredibly ridiculous. How can you compare Nazi Germany to what is going on in Windhelm? It's nowhere near that bad, not even close. Ulfric isn't Hitler and the Dark elves and the Argonians aren't the jews that's forcefully being starved to death... or being experimented on. It's blatantly obvious that you lack of any knowledge to what actually happen to the jews back in Nazi Germany., especially in their death camps.

 

[123]

Don't you get it? I'm not trying to trivialize the Holocaust. My family is Jewish.

The point is that just because it could be worse, doesn't mean it's good. Get that through your head. Being in the holocaust isn't GOOD just because it could be worse. It doesn't matter how much worse it was than Windhelm; What matters is the relationship between worst case scenario and the current problem.

Secondly, the College of Winterhold DOES exist to be a safe-haven for persecuted mages. It's also a school, in that it's the only place mages can be safe to learn. You can't just teach an entire army to suddenly hurl fireballs from their hands. It takes practice and time.

It's viewed as a dishonorable form of fighting.

 

[Scotty Piffin']

For what its worth poor people don't always have the option of just "picking up and moving elsewhere" whether in Skyrim or in life lol.

This whole "He's not making them stay there/live with it" thing is a clown shoes argument, they probably don't have a choice based off being poor and incapable of defending themselves against the wild of Skyrim. Just because they live within it (willingly, forcefully, or because they have no better option) doesn't make it any less wrong.

 

[Raijin]

Its like you don't know anything about the Nords. Do you really think a military force based on Nord traditions and ideals (and completely comprised of Nords too, cough*racist*cough) would be ever so willing to learn magic, something they look down upon considerably, completely reversing their customs? (and we all know what happens when someone reverses a Nord's customs i.e Talos worship)

You do realize that you can spawn a Stormcloak mage by simply enter this code? 4622B what does that tell you, eh?

Okay first of all, do you know how hard it is to move? Especially in a place like that. You've said yourself they keep them safe from all the bandits and monsters along the roads which I'm sure a lot of them would meet their fate on the journey to Riften. Contradiction in your argument, but I'm not surprised.

I'm not contradicting my argument. The living conditions in Windhelm for these people aren't all that bad if they continue to live there. And moving isn't all that complicated. Windhelm does have a carriages services that can take these people to their final destination. I believe traveling from Windhelm to Riften cost 20 gold. It's not all that expensive.

Second, you can't just take a quarter of a city and move it to another, neither one would be able to support that migration.

Separation is the key. The Dunmers can go to Riften and the Argonians can go to Solitude.

 

[123]

No, omfg, just stop. Your arguments are continually awful and you're just chasing your tail here.

Segregation is only a good thing when it's nothing more than fortified separation with equal conditions. It's NOT good when it's bad living conditions, low pay, and the constant 'get out of our city, Dark Elf!' from the Nords that are regarded as 'heroes' and 'brave soldiers.'

 

[Raijin]

123 wow you just gave me a ranter pin, and yet you were the one that brought up Nazi Germany to what Ulfric does in Windhelm regarding to the segregation situation. How abusive to the rating system. I'm done debating with you. I can no longer take you seriously.

 

[123]

How was I ever ranting? You took a simple metaphor as some serious cultural insult and tried to go into an angle where I'm a hate-mongering monster.

Okay, so you're surrendering. Goooooooddd. Let the hate flow through your veins.

 

[Raijin]

123 Not surrendering. You decided to abuse the rating system base on the mistake of dragging the victims of the holocaust (Real life) to compare to what is going on in windhelm (A fictional game).

I'm allergic to stupid people and stupid comments that people make. What you said was completely stupid and irrelevant.

 

[123]

The rating system is based on your personal opinion, my friend. I've also made it clear that when referencing the Holocaust I was referring to the wide gap between an awful situation and a bad one; The bad one is not good just because it could be worse.

I don't want to drag this thread even more off-topic, so I'm going to kindly have to ask you to bring this argument into a private message if you're just going to turn it into baseless personal attacks.

 

[Mr1cammando]

You do realize that you can spawn a Stormcloak mage by simply enter this code? 4622B what does that tell you, eh?

They are never seen ingame if they arent spawned in. What does that tell you, eh?

And, as people have said before, the Dunmer really aren't in any place to move.

One. They are barely scraping by. They don't have the resources to pick up everything and leave. Why? Because those who have (the nords) aren't giving.

Two. Where would they go? While were using ingame figures, there isn't any open property that they could ever afford. Not to mention, the only open property are single houses, not fit to house an entire district of double-refugees.

Three. Even if they seperated, the cities ingame are entirely full. No spare houses, none being built and there are only ever one or two bed in an inn at any given time in any city.