Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Crooksin]

The only reason Ulfric is called out more on his racism that, say, Rolff, is because he is a jarl. If the people of Skyrim hate the Khajit, then I say the racism is more just because of the setting. Does not make it more right, just shows that the time it is set in is different that today, and that people blindly use today's morals instead of saying "this is medieval times, stuff like this is going to happen." and finding more logical reason to join one side or the other.

Racism may be more accepted in Skyrim's setting, buts its still not completely accepted. The Empire certainly does not enforce racist policies like Ulfric or the Stormcloaks do and the Dark Elves definitely don't enjoy it, either.

That's besides the point anyway, please explain your last analogy comparing Necromancy to racial segregation of the Dark Elves. How would segregation be better in the long run for anybody, except the Nords of Windhelm's egos? Necromancy is a tool and therefore can be used for many things, good or bad, while segregation is a policy but I am curious to know how it could be for the benefit of the Dark Elves or Windhelm like you suggested.

 

[123]

The only reason Ulfric is called out more on his racism that, say, Rolff, is because he is a jarl. If the people of Skyrim hate the Khajit, then I say the racism is more just because of the setting. Does not make it more right, just shows that the time it is set in is different that today, and that people blindly use today's morals instead of saying "this is medieval times, stuff like this is going to happen." and finding more logical reason to join one side or the other.

I use it as an example of how different the times are, and that there needs to be a more logical reason to join a faction.

Except people in Skyrim can tell when they're being discriminated against. Racism = bad isn't this wildly new concept that humans have only very recently begun to understand. There have been lots of humans throughout history who have bridged gaps between societies, ending racism for the most part.

You need to understand that in order for most of Tamriel to ever overcome the Dominion, they need to be united. Argonia doesn't care if humans get enslaved. Why should they? Ulfric has treated them like crap. Why should the Empire care? They offered Skyrim protection, and they violently refused it. Hammerfell and Skyrim aren't going to defeat the entire Dominion, my friend.

 

[Jeremius]

Racism may be more accepted in Skyrim's setting, buts its still not completely accepted. The Empire certainly does not enforce racist policies like Ulfric or the Stormcloaks do and the Dark Elves definitely don't enjoy it, either.

That's besides the point anyway, please explain your last analogy comparing Necromancy to racial segregation of the Dark Elves. How would segregation be better in the long run for anybody, except the Nords Windhelm's egos? Necromancy is a tool and therefore can be used for many things, good or bad, while segregation is a policy but I am curious to know how it could be for the benefit of the Dark Elves or Windhelm like you suggested.

Lets look at it this way, IF you lived next door to a dark elf who hated you because you were not a dunmer, would you just let it go, or would you defend your race and your honor?

 

[123]

I wouldn't defend my 'race' because race is not a faction of likeminded individuals who share the same beliefs.

I also wouldn't try to kill somebody for disliking me. If they attacked me, I would kill them to save myself, not to 'save' my race.

 

[Crooksin]

Lets look at it this way, IF you lived next door to a dark elf who hated you because you were not a dunmer, would you just let it go, or would you defend your race and your honor?

The only problem with this is the Dark Elves don't hate the Nords because they are Nords, they hate them because they segregate them into the poorest part of town and utter slurs and hostile remarks whenever they can, treating them inferior. If I was a Dark Elf in Windhelm, I would hate the Nords just as much for doing that to me.

AGAIN, you're avoiding the question. How is racial segregation for the benefit of anybody similar to how Necromancy could be used for good? Back up what you say, instead of looking like a blabbering idiot.

 

[Jeremius]

The only problem with this is the Dark Elves don't hate the Nords because they are Nords, they hate them because they segregate them into the poorest part of town and utter slurs and hostile remarks whenever they can, treating them inferior. If I was a Dark Elf in Windhelm, I would hate the Nords just as much for doing that to me.

AGAIN, you're avoiding the question. How is racial segregation for the benefit of anybody similar to how Necromancy could be used for good? Back up what you say, instead of looking like a blabbering idiot.

And I am still waiting for a logical reason to pick a side in the Civil War, but we cant all get what we want.

 

[123]

HERE'S A REASON:

IMPERIALS: ONLY WAY HUMANITY CAN ESCAPE ENSLAVEMENT

STORMCLOAKS: ONLY WAY SKYRIM CAN HAVE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM

 

[Crooksin]

And I am still waiting for a logical reason to pick a side in the Civil War, but we cant all get what we want.

I didn't think anybody could be worse than Raijin, but you definitely take the crown.

 

[Jeremius]

HERE'S A REASON:

IMPERIALS: ONLY WAY HUMANITY CAN ESCAPE ENSLAVEMENT

STORMCLOAKS: ONLY WAY SKYRIM CAN HAVE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM

*Takes a good, long, hard look* Do not see the logic, Skyrim defending Skyrim from Skyrim. Good reason to fight in the war. /sarcasm

 

[123]

Wait what the fluff are you talking about?

Enslavement from the Aldmeri Dominion, dummy. Wow.

 

[azali100]

Wait what the fu** are you talking about?

Enslavement from the Aldmeri Dominion, dummy. Wow.

Maybe he'll understand if you type it bigger.

 

[Jeremius]

Wait what the fu** are you talking about?

Enslavement from the Aldmeri Dominion, dummy. Wow.

How is Cyrodil Faring? Can it's men actually protect Skyrim without being stretched too thin? These are the kinds of logical evidence I need to make a decision.

 

[123]

The point is united is better than divided.

We don't know anything about it right now, but we can assume that MAYBE since they waged war with the Aldmeri Dominion and weren't obliterated, that they have the ability to fight. (sarcasm)

 

[azali100]

How is Cyrodil Faring? Can it's men actually protect Skyrim without being stretched too thin? These are the kinds of logical evidence I need to make a decision.

You know how Empires work right? They draw troops from their provinces. If all the troops came from one province they wouldn't have had enough to maintain an empire in the first place.

 

[Jeremius]

You know how Empires work right? They draw troops from their provinces. If all the troops came from one province they wouldn't have had enough to maintain an empire in the first place.

If that is the case, why not have each province defend itself? no need to establish a legion.

 

[123]

Because a cluster of divided provinces cannot defeat a large organized fighting force.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

The only reason Ulfric is called out more on his racism that, say, Rolff, is because he is a jarl. If the people of Skyrim hate the Khajit, then I say the racism is more just because of the setting. Does not make it more right, just shows that the time it is set in is different that today, and that people blindly use today's morals instead of saying "this is medieval times, stuff like this is going to happen." and finding more logical reason to join one side or the other.

I use it as an example of how different the times are, and that there needs to be a more logical reason to join a faction.

That...makes sense. Same argument was made for the execution at Helgen. Still, the Empire seems to offer peace and unity, and the Stormcloacks are still racist.

 

[azali100]

If that is the case, why not have each province defend itself? no need to establish a legion.

Because without a centralized military the power of the government is undermined and because without a well organized military answering to a central power, an Empire becomes prone to collapse. One of the contributing factors to the decline of the Roman Empire was the decentralization of its territory and military as the size of the Empire grew.

 

[Raijin]

The only problem with this is the Dark Elves don't hate the Nords because they are Nords, they hate them because they segregate them into the poorest part of town and utter slurs and hostile remarks whenever they can, treating them inferior. If I was a Dark Elf in Windhelm, I would hate the Nords just as much for doing that to me.

Here's the problem. The Nords didn't go to the Dark Elves... The Dark Elves migrated in Nord land... to Windhelm none of the less. And If I was a Dark Elf who just entered Windhelm instead of acting proud and naive I would search for someone that can guide me through... perhaps someone like the Altmer woman,Niranye, in the marketplace. You are given the chance to ask her a question after you first enter Windhelm: "Are you treated as badly as the Dark Elves?" she replies by saying "It was difficult at first. The Nords of this city are, at best, suspicious of outsiders. But in time I made the right friends and proved myself useful enough that they don't give me trouble anymore. The Dunmer are too proud and naive to see the way things truly are, and so they continue to dwell in that slum."

And one last thing... If I was a Dark elf living in Windhelm I would be grateful to have shelter.. a place to sleep and eat, and not have to worry about bandits attacking me. It is my responsibility as an immigrant to prove myself worthy to the land owners. Theirs things that I may not want to do, like joining up with the Stormcloaks, but that's the way it goes. Respect is earned. You must work hard to achieve the respect.

 

[123]

Nobody's saying Windhelm is evil. We're saying Ulfric is racist, and no matter how 'grateful' his people are obligated to be, he isn't fit to rule. A leader needs to completely set aside their prejudices and do what's right for everyone in the city, and not let drunks raid Dunmer homes for evidence of beign Imperial spies.