Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

The part about "how was that?" Etc etc...

After his speech to the men in Battle for Solitude, he turns to Galmar.

Ulfric: "Then it is settled. The Jarl will continue to rule Solitude, I will garrison armies here to ward off Imperial attempts to reclaim the city. And in due time, the Moot will meet, and settle the claim to High King once and for all. There is much to do, and I need every able bodied man and woman committed to rebuilding Skyrim. A great darkness is growing, and soon we will be called to fight it, on these shores or abroad. The Aldmeri Dominion may have defeated the Empire, but it has not defeated Skyrim!"
Soldiers: [cheering]
After addressing the people with a speech, Ulfric will then confide to Galmar:
Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."
Galmar: "It's a foregone conclusion, you know."
Ulfric: "Oh, I know."

Skyrim:Ulfric Stormcloak - UESPWiki

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

After his speech to the men in Battle for Solitude, he turns to Galmar.

Ulfric: "Then it is settled. The Jarl will continue to rule Solitude, I will garrison armies here to ward off Imperial attempts to reclaim the city. And in due time, the Moot will meet, and settle the claim to High King once and for all. There is much to do, and I need every able bodied man and woman committed to rebuilding Skyrim. A great darkness is growing, and soon we will be called to fight it, on these shores or abroad. The Aldmeri Dominion may have defeated the Empire, but it has not defeated Skyrim!"
Soldiers: [cheering]
After addressing the people with a speech, Ulfric will then confide to Galmar:
Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."
Galmar: "It's a foregone conclusion, you know."
Ulfric: "Oh, I know."

Skyrim:Ulfric Stormcloak - UESPWiki

It is not an uncommon practice. Besides, it's obvious he will be high king if he wins the war. Nothing wrong with dressing it up nicely, as we all dress up our points nicely in the thread, to solidify his control. It is intelligent and cunning, marks of either a good leader or a tyrant like dictator. Albeit it looks bad to some, Ulfric has within his grasp to be great. Tiber Septim/Talos more than likely used the exact sane methods to create the Empire you love so dearly today. As the master of the greybeards once said "Would you stop the new world from being born?" Or something along those lines. (See?! I can use quotes too! )

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

But I have to admit you got me with that one.

 

[Anouck]

 

[The Laoch]

That isn't actually as bad as it sounds. There is a Talos Cult that many Legionnaires are apart of

The Talos Cult is a group of worshipers of the great Tiber Septim, founder of the Empire. In order to join, new recruits must swear the following oath: "That we shall die to put a strong man back on the throne of Tamriel." They have many followers in the Legions, conspiring to assassinate whoever the current emperor may be and replace him, so to prevent the Empire's decline.

I respected the Legion all the way up to Skyrim. I would gladly help the Talos Cult. It isn't that I like Talos it is more i just think people should get to worship whoever they like. If the Thalmor have such a problem, refer to Talos as the eight and one or don't build any Talos temples.

And the whole thing of Talos being the best divine, I never heard that before. Yes I bet men put him in high regard ,but when I ever heard the eight and one I just took it as Talos wasn't as powerful. I played knights of the nine ,but still I thought all divines were equal at most or eight were very powerful and Talos was almost as powerful.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I respected the Legion all the way up to Skyrim. I would gladly help the Talos Cult. It isn't that I like Talos it is more i just think people should get to worship whoever they like. If the Thalmor have such a problem, refer to Talos as the eight and one or don't build any Talos temples.

And the whole thing of Talos being the best divine, I never heard that before. Yes I bet men put him in high regard ,but when I ever heard the eight and one I just took it as Talos wasn't as powerful. I played knights of the nine ,but still I thought all divines were equal at most or eight were very powerful and Talos was almost as powerful.

The Eight Divines were very Aldmeri influenced. With elves living for thousands of years, one in Morrowind was apparently 4000 years old, you're basically adding a new God to the religion, one that many of them are older than and probably may of even met when Tiber was Emperor. I guess they find it kind of heretical. I guess it is like using the same religion but changing slightly it. Like say Christianity, the one true God. Now lets say someone were to add onto it, like it is still the same religion, the bible is the same etc. But then you tell the Church "General such and such a great and wise Military leader, has now ascended and become a God, there are now Two gods." They would find that heresy and in fact hundreds of years ago you would of been killed for it. I suppose when one would think of Gods, they would of been there long before the people. I may be mistaken but that is my guess on how the Aldmeri see it.

 

[Anouck]

The Eight Divines were very Aldmeri influenced. With elves living for thousands of years, one in Morrowind was apparently 4000 years old, you're basically adding a new God to the religion, one that many of them are older than and probably may of even met when Tiber was Emperor. I guess they find it kind of heretical. I guess it is like using the same religion but changing slightly it. Like say Christianity, the one true God. Now lets say someone were to add onto it, like it is still the same religion, the bible is the same etc. But then you tell the Church "General such and such a great and wise Military leader, has now ascended and become a God, there are now Two gods." They would find that heresy and in fact hundreds of years ago you would of been killed for it. I suppose when one would think of Gods, they would of been there long before the people. I may be mistaken but that is my guess on how the Aldmeri see it.

Never looked at it that way.. It's true..

 

[DrunkenMage]

Never looked at it that way.. It's true..

It is how I generally see it anyway, instead of it being a different religion all together. He was made the Ninth Divine, so he was added to the religion. The Eight Divines was introduced in the First Era, Talos didn't become Divine until sometime in the Third Era so I can see why they'd call it heresy.

 

[Hard to Believe]

Anyone heard of "group think"? Normally it's used derogatively. I will not join the empire or the stormcloaks, but if they offer honest work, I would be happy to earn my "living".

I have no say in the matter, it's a pirate's life for me.

 

[The Laoch]

The Eight Divines were very Aldmeri influenced. With elves living for thousands of years, one in Morrowind was apparently 4000 years old, you're basically adding a new God to the religion, one that many of them are older than and probably may of even met when Tiber was Emperor. I guess they find it kind of heretical. I guess it is like using the same religion but changing slightly it. Like say Christianity, the one true God. Now lets say someone were to add onto it, like it is still the same religion, the bible is the same etc. But then you tell the Church "General such and such a great and wise Military leader, has now ascended and become a God, there are now Two gods." They would find that heresy and in fact hundreds of years ago you would of been killed for it. I suppose when one would think of Gods, they would of been there long before the people. I may be mistaken but that is my guess on how the Aldmeri see it.

Couldn't the elves make their own religion? If we are using Christianity metaphor take the eastern orthodox, they have some differences from the roman catholic and Protestant. I know there are many other elven gods. I always thought the divines were a mix between men and mer religion.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Couldn't the elves make their own religion? If we are using Christianity metaphor take the eastern orthodox, they have some differences from the roman catholic and Protestant. I know there are many other elven gods. I always thought the divines were a mix between men and mer religion.

The Divines is a mixture of Aldmeri gods which man worshiped in Cyrodiil and Nordic gods. The religions joined, the elves had their own religion, man just worshiped the Elven Gods in Cyrodiil. So the religion of the Eight Divines is worshiped by different cultures under different names. I guess it just ticked them off that man is worshiping their gods but also adding a new one as the ultimate hero-god equal to them.

 

[feliciano182]

I guess it just ticked them off that man is worshiping their gods but also adding a new one as the ultimate hero-god equal to them.

I still think this is BS, call me paranoid but I think The Thalmor have another agenda in mind.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I still think this is BS, call me paranoid but I think The Thalmor have another agenda in mind.

They do, they seek to enslave mankind. The symbol Talos represents to man is more powerful than anything they can do. The very idea one can achieve divine-hood. You must destroy that idea if you seek to show elven superiority.

 

[feliciano182]

They do, they seek to enslave mankind. The symbol Talos represents to man is more powerful than anything they can do. The very idea one can achieve divine-hood. You must destroy that idea if you seek to show elven superiority.

That's a good one, though I was thinking of an even MORE surrepticious purpose............

.................like bringing back Mehrunes Dagon !

 

[DrunkenMage]

That's a good one, though I was thinking of an even MORE surrepticious purpose............

.................like bringing back Mehrunes Dagon !

They're good at the waiting game. Years have little meaning to those who live for thousands, they were silent for 70 years when the rose to power, then they sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with the heads of the blades.

 

[feliciano182]

They're good at the waiting game. Years have little meaning to those who live for thousands, they were silent for 70 years when the rose to power, then they sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with the heads of the blades.

Yeah, The Thalmor are well aware that they have time on their hands, and they sure know how to use it.

 

[Dagmar]

Ulfric did not attack the town without a reason to do it. Ulfric gave Balgruuf a chance to finally pick sides, and he picked the Empire therefor he is no longer neutral.

No, in the Stormcloak version of the Battle for Whiterun, Ulfric forces Balgruuf to choose a side because he knows if he insists on it Balgruuf will accept the aid of the Empire. The game makes it emphatically clear that he's already mobilized a Stormcloak attack force before he even makes the overture. Balgruuf is informed of this by Rikke and Imperial intelligence reports that she provides him so it's a calculated move on Ulfric's part to manipulate the situation so he can use Whiterun as a display of the strength of his Stormcloak army now that it's been reinforced by other Holds. He already informs players of this indirectly in his default starting dialogue with Galmar in the Palace of Kings. It's simply illustrative of his consistent viewpoint that using people as a means to his ends is completely acceptable regardless of the cost.

The Imperial Legion version of the quest is even worse because it's Balgruuf that sends him the axe to see if his intentions towards Whiterun are friendly or hostile irregardless of whether Whiterun remains neutral or not. He's basically calling Ulfric out on his mobilization of the Stormcloaks against Whiterun and Ulfric confirms his intentions by rejecting the axe. For all practical purposes Whiterun was neutral before Ulfric decided to attack it. It reflects his undeniable characteristic of seeing anyone that isn't actively supporting him as an enemy.

 

[DrunkenMage]

No, in the Stormcloak version of the Battle for Whiterun, Ulfric forces Balgruuf to choose a side because he knows if he insists on it Balgruuf will accept the aid of the Empire. The game makes it emphatically clear that he's already mobilized a Stormcloak attack force before he even makes the overture. Balgruuf is informed of this by Rikke and Imperial intelligence reports that she provides him so it's a calculated move on Ulfric's part to manipulate the situation so he can use Whiterun as a display of the strength of his Stormcloak army now that it's been reinforced by other Holds. He already informs players of this indirectly in his default starting dialogue with Galmar in the Palace of Kings. It's simply illustrative of his consistent viewpoint that using people as a means to his ends is completely acceptable regardless of the cost.

The Imperial Legion version of the quest is even worse because it's Balgruuf that sends him the axe to see if his intentions towards Whiterun are friendly or hostile irregardless of whether Whiterun remains neutral or not. He's basically calling Ulfric out on his mobilization of the Stormcloaks against Whiterun and Ulfric confirms his intentions by rejecting the axe. For all practical purposes Whiterun was neutral before Ulfric decided to attack it. It reflects his undeniable characteristic of seeing anyone that isn't actively supporting him as an enemy.

Yeah, there is no neutrality when it comes to Stormcloaks.

Galmar: "If he's not with us, he's against us."
Ulfric: "He knows that. They all know that."

Even when speaking with a Stormcloak officer about how to join the Stormcloaks, confirms that there is no neutrality. When asking how to join and they say you're basically one of them or you're not and makes a threat. "If you are, then you make your way to Windhelm and talk to the man himself. If you're not, well friend, you'd best walk away before this gets ugly."

 

[DrunkenMage]

A bit like that incestuous prick, Idolaf Battle-Born. Gray-Mane or Battle-Born, which one?

Yeah, guess it must be a trait in Nords.

 

[DrunkenMage]

What, the false dilemma or the incest?

Stubborn pride. Think Brunwulf Free-Winter makes a comment about the stubbornness of nords when he is Jarl about if the Argonians will be let inside. He says they remain outside for their safety. May need to check later, I can't remember the exact quote or if it was from him.