Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[ArcaneAuthority]

I shouted Ulfric to death, like he did with Torygg

Some awesome Revenge Role Playing from you my friend, i never even thought of that! I'm in the middle of playing my 2nd-3rd playthrough of the Dark Brotherhood at the moment, it saddens me when you have to kill the emperor sorry for the spoilers anyone ..

 

[Mighty Pecan Pie]

Why would a rebellion would be crushed? I got to say I like people who dare to fight the unquestionable power (the Empire) just to not accept everything because they're the Empire!

As stated before, I believe there should be a rebellion in real life, in this world.

 

[ArcaneAuthority]

Because it is a rebellion with an empty cause and a selfish, unjust leader.. Ulfric fights for selfish intentions, rebellions like that never last long

 

[Mighty Pecan Pie]

Because it is a rebellion with an empty cause and a selfish, unjust leader.. Ulfric fights for selfish intentions, rebellions like that never last long

that's true, but if people believe in him. he could do anything.

 

[Anouck]

Why would a rebellion would be crushed? I got to say I like people who dare to fight the unquestionable power (the Empire) just to not accept everything because they're the Empire!

As stated before, I believe there should be a rebellion in real life, in this world.

>> A rebellion is a group who stands up against the establishment. They fight the unquestionable power << It is true in one way.. but a standing up against something comes with severe consequences. so you have to ask yourself: Is it worth it?

 

[Anouck]

if people believe in him. he could do anything.

...And that's why he is so dangerous...

 

[ArcaneAuthority]

that's true, but if people believe in him. he could do anything.

I agree, but i believe the Empire is fighting the winning fight, they have more land, resource, soldiers etc.. but it's all being wasted against Ulfric when it could be used to defend Tamriel from the dominion.

Ulfric's actions are all selfish and people will eventually come to realise it..

 

[Karen]

Selfish in what context, though? I don't know if I really believe he is doing all this for just himself, though I guess it could be construed as selfish if he is willing to watch the rest of Tamriel crumble just for the good of Skyrim.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Empire is not as strong as it used to be

There is a theory that the Aldmeri Dominion is glad with the Stormcloaks because the civil war weakens the Empire. And a weak Empire is a defenseless one.

It is a little more than a theory, the Thalmor Dossier confirm that they're behind keeping the Civil war going by supporting the Stormcloaks through indirect aid. They were even at Helgan trying to stop the execution. Hadvar mentions something also, that Ulfric would always slip away from Imperial capture as if he knew they were always waiting for him. Tullius also mentions the Thalmor are behind it.

Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."

Legate Fasendil also requested a posting in Skyrim because he believes the Thalmor are up to something.

I think it's all about pride. Ulfric Stormcloak probably knows that surrendering was the only thing the Empire could do. But Nords, who consider honor and pride a very important part of their being, rather die.
The White Gold Concordat saved Skyrim but that doesn't mean people are glad about the way things turned out. I joined the Legion but I understand the Stormcloaks and their views.

For a man who thinks surrendering is not the way, he has a history of getting captured... TWICE by the Imperials, the second time he surrendered without a fight. That and I always see Stormcloak prisoners, they call the Empire cowards... I don't see Imperial prisoners everywhere except on that one Civil war fort capture.

 

[Anouck]

Selfish in what context, though? I don't know if I really believe he is doing all this for just himself, though I guess it could be construed as selfish if he is willing to watch the rest of Tamriel crumble just for the good of Skyrim.

That would be some sort of nationalism.

I think Ulfric is selfish because he's tearing Skyrim apart for personal glory. I might be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time ) but I really think it's all about becoming High King.
Why else did he murder Torygg? He said he was sending a message to the other jarls. What message? It made no sense.

Together we stand stronger against the Dominion. and the Imperial Legion is exactly what is keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim. They are minimizing the damage done by the Great War and the White Gold Concordat.

 

[DrunkenMage]

That would be some sort of nationalism.

I think Ulfric is selfish because he's tearing Skyrim apart for personal glory. I might be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time ) but I really think it's all about becoming High King.
Why else did he murder Torygg? He said he was sending a message to the other jarls. What message? It made no sense.

Together we stand stronger against the Dominion. and the Imperial Legion is exactly what is keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim. They are minimizing the damage done by the Great War and the White Gold Concordat.

Well the timeline in Skyrim between NPC's is a little messed up. Hadvar mentions that the Rebellion had been going on for sometime, that Ulfric would use the ban of Talos to get people to join him, he wasn't getting much success so several months ago he murdered the High King which got the Empires attention. I think because the game might of been a bit rushed, so basically there is a strange time warp happening in Skyrim. Could be some kind of dragon break, but it would kind of explain the, Ulfric: "Torygg was merely a message to the other Jarls"

 

[Karen]

That would be some sort of nationalism.

I think Ulfric is selfish because he's tearing Skyrim apart for personal glory. I might be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time ) but I really think it's all about becoming High King.
Why else did he murder Torygg? He said he was sending a message to the other jarls. What message? It made no sense.

Together we stand stronger against the Dominion. and the Imperial Legion is exactly what is keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim. They are minimizing the damage done by the Great War and the White Gold Concordat.

Yeah, the first part's what I'm unclear about - I'm not really sure what Ulfric's motives are, and frankly, I don't care because I don't support the Stormcloaks' cause. I've never really spent enough time on his side to learn too much about him personally, so I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt and think maybe he's doing this for more than personal gain.

 

[Anouck]

Yeah, the first part's what I'm unclear about - I'm not really sure what Ulfric's motives are, and frankly, I don't care because I don't support the Stormcloaks' cause. I've never really spent enough time on his side to learn too much about him personally, so I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt and think maybe he's doing this for more than personal gain.

That's what is dangerous about him. Nobody really understands what he is up to and people are giving him power...

 

[DrunkenMage]

That's what is dangerous about him. Nobody really understands what he is up to and people are giving him power...

Him power and Galmar power, Galmar becomes in charge of keeping the new Jarls in line.

 

[feliciano182]

Legate Fasendil also requested a posting in Skyrim because he believes the Thalmor are up to something.

"The Night Of Green Fire"

 

[DrunkenMage]

"The Night Of Green Fire"

Hopefully next game, we'll be able to kill them all. The Legion has many things to payback the Thalmor for.

 

[Raijin]

I think it's all about pride. Ulfric Stormcloak probably knows that surrendering was the only thing the Empire could do. But Nords, who consider honor and pride a very important part of their being, rather die.
The White Gold Concordat saved Skyrim but that doesn't mean people are glad about the way things turned out. I joined the Legion but I understand the Stormcloaks and their views.

The White Gold Concordat didn't save Skyrim but Cyrodiil from getting slaughtered caused by a stubborn Emperor who failed to agree with the terms the first round. Titus Mede II thought he could tell the Thalmor to fluff off when they first approach him with the W.G.C which he rejected knowing that his Empire was weak to the begin with. What do you think caused the Great War to happen?

The White Gold Concordat created trouble for the people in Skyrim, since Talos worship is widely known there. Thalmor are free to patrol Skyrim, and in any other Imperial run provinces, under imperial protection to arrest Talos worshipers on their home land. They are sent to Thalmor prisons where the treatment are probably far worst than being in Cidhna mine in Markarth.

I don't hate the Empire, so don't get the wrong impression, I however think they should downgrade for a while, which theirs nothing wrong about it at all. Sometimes you need to step back to regain strength. Skyrim should be independently run. High King Torygg had the opportunity to do that, but he was more interested in Imperial coin, and entertaining his queen rather than running his country. Ulfric Stormcloak could no longer allow this to happen, and challenged Torygg to a duel.

 

[Mighty Pecan Pie]

That would be some sort of nationalism.

I think Ulfric is selfish because he's tearing Skyrim apart for personal glory. I might be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time ) but I really think it's all about becoming High King.
Why else did he murder Torygg? He said he was sending a message to the other jarls. What message? It made no sense.

Together we stand stronger against the Dominion. and the Imperial Legion is exactly what is keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim. They are minimizing the damage done by the Great War and the White Gold Concordat.

If you're going to trow nationalism in here.

We all know what pride can do! take the second world war! so many people believed in Hitler in that time, although he was evil as hell. He wanted to rule te world and shape it in his idea of perfection.

For the record: I am not a nazi or racist. I don't want to offence people, but I just want to explain how deep and far pride can take someone or a whole country!

 

[DrunkenMage]

The White Gold Concordat didn't save Skyrim but Cyrodiil from getting slaughtered caused by a stubborn Emperor who failed to agree with the terms the first round. Titus Mede II thought he could tell the Thalmor to fluff off when they first approach him with the W.G.C which he rejected knowing that his Empire was weak to the begin with. What do you think caused the Great War to happen?

The White Gold Concordat created trouble for the people in Skyrim, since Talos worship is widely known there. Thalmor are free to patrol Skyrim, and in any other Imperial run provinces, under imperial protection to arrest Talos worshipers on their home land. They are sent to Thalmor prisons where the treatment are probably far worst than being in Cidhna mine in Markarth.

I don't hate the Empire, so don't get the wrong impression, I however think they should downgrade for a while, which theirs nothing wrong about it at all. Sometimes you need to step back to regain strength. Skyrim should be independently run. High King Torygg had the opportunity to do that, but he was more interested in Imperial coin, and entertaining his queen rather than running his country. Ulfric Stormcloak could no longer allow this to happen, and challenged Torygg to a duel.

So you think the Empire should of just banned Talos, given up southern hammerfell, disbanded their Intelligence agents, paid the Aldmeri Dominion a crap load of money without even a fight? There would of been Civil war everywhere, not just thirty years later in Skyrim, but every single province. There wouldn't be an Empire if they agreed to those terms, so do not call him a stubborn Emperor for rejecting terms on the mere threat of war. If that is your argument against the Empire? That they fought back instead of surrendering without a fight, it is a weak stance. The treaty saved thousands of lives, not just those in Cyrodiil, what of the Legionnaires from High Rock? Or the Legionnaires from Skyrim? Do those Nords mean nothing to Skyrim? To their families? It didn't save Skyrim you say? Where would Skyrim be if Cyrodiil was destroyed because they continued the war and lost every soldier attacking the Dominion in southern Hammerfell, invading Valenwood and Elsweyr. What would Skyrim do to defend themselves if all the soldiers are gone and the only protection is a small Militia Ulfric is leading to attack Forsworn controlled Markarth. Ulfric's forces in full strength three decades later can't even afford a war with the Empire, how would they manage against thousands of Dominion soldiers marching unopposed because there is no more Legions to stop them, because forming a peace treaty would be weakness, much better to have thousands die so a small few old Nords can thump their chests and say what a brave defeat it was?

The White-Gold Concordat was hard on everyone, yet it had to be done to regain strength and fight another day, they did step back to regain strength what do you think they've been doing for nearly three decades? Sitting around doing nothing? They've been busy rebuilding and keeping the Imperial army tied down on the Aldmeri Dominion border. Talos worship was wide in Cyrodiil and Skyrim, but the ban was never enforced, people worshiped in secret and didn't pay much attention, the Thalmor would of pressured the Empire into enforcing the treaty. "We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down" - Alvor

You have no idea how Torygg was as a High King, it is suggested he greatly respected Ulfric and wanted to hear more of it, I'm sure he may of agreed if Ulfric could come up with a bloody plan on what to do afterwards since they still depended on Imperial coin, all of the Jarls did, the people depended on the food and supplies through trade and commerce, the miners depended on the work that was brought through the East Empire Company, shipping ore and ingots. You can't feed your people on notions of greatness, you can't pay your guards and workers on the promises of independence. I don't understand why you dislike the High King because he loved his wife? That he wanted to treat her like someone he loved?

 

[Dagmar]