The politics of Skyrim (as seen by a newcomer) - please debate!

[Stigweard Ruadhan]

I posted this in another thread but found it was relevant to the discussion we have been having here.

It was regarding the White Gold Concordat...

It is interesting to note that the term "concordat" is almost exclusively used in the context of a Church/State agreement...more especially the Catholic Church. And I wonder whether this term was used purposefully by Bethesda - particularly considering the contentions.

From a Church/State perspective, the contentions regarding Concordats involve two perspectives - the Church believes it has the moral and theological right to enter into diplomatic relations with states in order to reach agreements regarding the care of its members residing there. This is the concept of libertas ecclesiastica (freedom of the Church).

However, from a non-Catholic perspective (I am a Catholic btw) this poses certain concerns regarding religious freedom, such as:

Concordats give to the Church a privileged position that other religious groups are denied.

Concordats are not "the same as treaties" because they are entered into by an entity that is BOTH religious and political in nature - whereas any other treaty is between two sovereign entities on a horizontal level, i.e., purely political in nature.

Depending on the negotiations agreed upon in the Concordat, some religious groups face the threat of being marginalised as the Church is mentioned by name and holds a pre-eminent position among other religious groups.

If we replace the "Church" with "Thalmor" it makes things very interesting, especially considering the predisposition towards eleven supremacy and their belief (amongst those of the higher echelons) that the Altmer should pursue a path back toward their former divinity (or at least their ancestral lineage.)

In this, the Stormcloaks argue that their religion, their political freedoms and their societal fabric is being marginalised by an increasingly imposing and powerful entity.

I don't support the Stormcloaks - or more accurately, the wailing of Ulfric. But neither do I like the Thalmor!

It just struck me as very interesting that Bethesda picked this term...

 

[Stigweard Ruadhan]

I've been doing some further reading...

Taken from, "A Concise History of the War between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion."

"Critics have pointed out that the Concordat was almost identical to the ultimatum the Emperor rejected five years previously. However, there was a great difference between agreeing to such terms under the mere threat of war, and agreeing to them at the end of a long and destructive war. No part of the Empire would have agreed to the terms in 4E 171, dictated by the Thalmor at the point of a sword and with the heads of the Blades in a cart - it would have provoked a Civil War for Titus II. By 4E 175 however, most of the Empire was prepared to accept almost any terms in order to secure peace at any price."

 

[Moris]

I posted this in another thread but found it was relevant to the discussion we have been having here.

It was regarding the White Gold Concordat...

It is interesting to note that the term "concordat" is almost exclusively used in the context of a Church/State agreement...more especially the Catholic Church. And I wonder whether this term was used purposefully by Bethesda - particularly considering the contentions.

From a Church/State perspective, the contentions regarding Concordats involve two perspectives - the Church believes it has the moral and theological right to enter into diplomatic relations with states in order to reach agreements regarding the care of its members residing there. This is the concept of libertas ecclesiastica (freedom of the Church).

However, from a non-Catholic perspective (I am a Catholic btw) this poses certain concerns regarding religious freedom, such as:

Concordats give to the Church a privileged position that other religious groups are denied.

Concordats are not "the same as treaties" because they are entered into by an entity that is BOTH religious and political in nature - whereas any other treaty is between two sovereign entities on a horizontal level, i.e., purely political in nature.

Depending on the negotiations agreed upon in the Concordat, some religious groups face the threat of being marginalised as the Church is mentioned by name and holds a pre-eminent position among other religious groups.

If we replace the "Church" with "Thalmor" it makes things very interesting, especially considering the predisposition towards eleven supremacy and their belief (amongst those of the higher echelons) that the Altmer should pursue a path back toward their former divinity (or at least their ancestral lineage.)

In this, the Stormcloaks argue that their religion, their political freedoms and their societal fabric is being marginalised by an increasingly imposing and powerful entity.

I don't support the Stormcloaks - or more accurately, the wailing of Ulfric. But neither do I like the Thalmor!

It just struck me as very interesting that Bethesda picked this term...

This is a very interesting point. It's pretty darned subtle, though. I'm trying to wrap my thoughts around the idea of a specific use of terminology, but it's not making complete sense to me yet. I'll have to think about this for a while.

 

[Tyrone]

I think the term "concordat" was forced upon the empire, and that the thalmor do see themselves as a religious organization, believing that they are divine-anointed and destined to rule Tamriel. The problem is, the nords probably see themselves the same way, upholding the right to worship Talos, and I believe, take it even farther than that, if they win the civil war, and say that Ulfric is destined to rule all of Tamriel.

Ever since my high elf got his saves deleted and was stuck on the stormcloak questline, I am unsure or not if I should go further or not. I can find very little reason for my non-thalmor high elf to join the stormcloaks, who constantly tell me how better man is than mer (a certain similarity to another faction?, just flip flopped?). And the empire isn't good either, they just want to milk Skyrim of it's resources and soldiers it provides, I doubt General Tulius actually cares that much about Skyrim, he just cares about the empire's interests, which only care about Cyrodiil really.