Can't Decide between Stormcloaks or Imperials...

[DrunkenMage]

Making sure of something is a mark of a good leader. Not a bad trait. Generaly following orders is OK, its making more efficient while not infringing on liberty and power of jarls too much.
General orders can be anything from assemble the army to clear the reach of forsworn etc.. Do I have to list all of them XD

Not general orders, Generally following orders. Means what he says you do it or else, you really think Ulfric will accept No as an answer to his demands once he's High King? He knows he is going to be High King, he was only using the moot for the common people, I disliked what he said after his speech to Galmar quietly, makes you realize the man doesn't really care about tradition when it doesn't agree with him.

"... To return to our glory and traditions, to determine our own future!"
"And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it."

Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."
Galmar: "It's a foregone conclusion, you know."
Ulfric: "Oh, I know."

 

[Two Bears]

Making sure of something is a mark of a good leader. Not a bad trait. Generaly following orders is OK, its making more efficient while not infringing on liberty and power of jarls too much.
General orders can be anything from assemble the army to clear the reach of forsworn etc.. Do I have to list all of them XD

Right, because the governors of the states just sit around shiftlessly unless the President tell them "hey you, governor, enforce your laws, fund public education and be sure to work on your economy."

 

[Mookie]

Not general orders, Generally following orders. Means what he says you do it or else, you really think Ulfric will accept No as an answer to his demands once he's High King? He knows he is going to be High King, he was only using the moot for the common people, I disliked what he said after his speech to Galmar quietly, makes you realize the man doesn't really care about tradition when it doesn't agree with him.

"... To return to our glory and traditions, to determine our own future!"
"And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it."

Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."
Galmar: "It's a foregone conclusion, you know."
Ulfric: "Oh, I know."

He could have used Follow orders instad of generaly. Generaly is more relaxed form.
I would probably ask the same thing after a speech, how did I do
And btw its 5 am here time for me to sleep.

 

[DrunkenMage]

He could have used Follow orders instad of generaly. Generaly is more relaxed form.
I would probably ask the same thing after a speech, how did I do
And btw its 5 am here time for me to sleep.

I preferred Tullius' after speech. "I hate giving speeches."

Thalmor at that time. Now empire and thalmor

The only threat to Skyrim is Ulfric, I don't see the Thalmor sacking two Nordic cities. I didn't realize you needed a warrior King and an army to fight back several Thalmor Agents. The Aldmeri Dominion can't reach Skyrim, they can't touch Skyrim. Skyrim is protected by geographical location, the Aldmeri Dominion won't go through Hammerfell to reach Skyrim. There is nothing important in Skyrim they would want for the risks of trying to take Skyrim while they're still at war. You and other Stormcloak supporters lack any strategic sense, you really believe the Thalmor are going to bust their way into Skyrim from another way? Nearly the entire Imperial Army is sitting on their border, they would have to destroy that before they can even think about Skyrim.

The Legions aren't an easy thing to defeat, especially not when they're prepared for battle, and when they're all gathered there. Stormcloaks can't touch the Aldmeri Dominion, you think you're saving Tamriel by pushing out the Empire because there is a handful of Thalmor Agents roaming around? Take a look at the bigger picture, Skyrim can't do anything. It's hated by it's own neighbors and Ulfric thinks he'll lead Tamriel when the outbreak of war happens? That is laughable, there is no way the other provinces would follow Ulfric. He's all talk.

"Soon, the elves will again seek to rule the world. We must ready ourselves to fight them. For it will be Skyrim that shall lead Tamriel in those dark days, when the fate of the world is finally determined." - Ulfric

Yeah, no one is going to follow him, Skyrim will lead plops. It's hated by everyone, they have made enemies of every single neighbor they have. They just killed Tullius who surrendered, he could of been used to make relations with Cyrodiil be nice. Cyrodiil was the only province who had good standing with Skyrim, now Skyrim has surrounded itself by provinces who would rather now see it burn before they allow Skyrim to order them around.

 

[Lunaruse]

So I've read through all the comments (there were so many more than I expected XD) and I've made my decision, I'm going for the Imperials. The last 3 pages made my mind up I'd like to thank all of you, but especially you, Mookie. Your arguements helped me realize the rational decision.

 

[Doctor Langstrom]

So I've read through all the comments (there were so many more than I expected XD) and I've made my decision, I'm going for the Imperials. The last 3 pages made my mind up I'd like to thank all of you, but especially you, Mookie. Your arguements helped me realize the rational decision.

You have made the correct choice.

 

[Gearuvagen]

Correct indeed...plus we have sweet looking Heavy Armor they have...err...Bear hats...

 

[Dagmar]

You escape some giant hollocaust by a vulcano or something and a country takes you in and you wouldnt help out?
They arent treated like pl*** from the start, only after refusing to pitch in

This is an example of total logic failure. Ulfric =/= Skyrim. The Jarls and the High King took the Dunmer refugees into Skyrim almost 200 years ago before Ulfric was even a twinkle in his daddy's eye. How is abstaining from supporting a usurper who killed the High King, upset the order of the province and wages war against half of the Nords of Skyrim while treating the Dunmer as second class citizens refusing to pitch in for the kingdom of Skyrim on the Dunmer's part? In case you don't get it, that's a rhetorical question because it isn't.

 

[Dagmar]

College of political sciences.

United States?

 

[Epic Keith]

So I've read through all the comments (there were so many more than I expected XD) and I've made my decision, I'm going for the Imperials. The last 3 pages made my mind up I'd like to thank all of you, but especially you, Mookie. Your arguements helped me realize the rational decision.

You have chosen......Wisely - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

 

[Epic Keith]

Correct indeed...plus we have sweet looking Heavy Armor they have...err...Bear hats...

I would've liked the Bear armor, IF IT WAS A HEAVY ARMOR!

And our armors are awesome! Who doesn't like Greek/Romans?

 

[Dagmar]

You cant just take take take and expect more. The dark elves are just takers who dont pay back.

You have absolutely zero evidence to support this transparently biased attempt to make Ulfric out as someone different than who actually is. The Dunmer are as productive as any citizen of Windhelm. One of them owns a farm and provides gainful employment for a Nord citizen of Eastmarch. They all have jobs. By inference from one NPC's dialogue they pay taxes the same as any citizen of Skyrim. There are also non-Dunmer in Windhelm that do nothing evident to support the Stormcloaks but you don't see them being shoved into the Gray Quarter because the only motivation to segregate the Dunmer is because of their race regardless of whatever your uninformed opinions on the matter may be.

Look at high elf, she is in Windhelm a short time and is allready respected. Because she gives back to the comunity and is ready to do something. She has proven herself so to speak.

First of all, unless you're vying for the most clueless person in Windhelm medal this is a LOLable statement. Niranye is a criminal. She's a fence who sells smuggled, stolen and/or illegal goods. Even if you've never done the Thieves Guild quest line it's implied if you observe the NPC discussions with her. Nothing she does is motivated by anything other than her self-serving desire to make a profit. Second of all, see above, the Dunmer work and sell goods too. You're referring to her in that regard is a complete non-point. Lastly, she's not treated like the Dunmer because (surprise) she's not a Dunmer. I'll never understand why so many Ulfric sycophants and apologists constantly try to use her as some kind of example that there's no racism against the Dunmer. It's like pointing to a Canadian as proof that there's no racism against Mexicans.

 

[Dagmar]

Empire isnt all of Skyrim either. Empire is killing nords to. So that argument is invalid

Please explain how this statement, even when accepted as completely true somehow magically changes all the facts that Drunkenmage pointed out about Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, because that's what it would have to do to make those observations (they're not arguments) invalid.

 

[Dagmar]

That empire is trying to destroy Talos now. There was an empire before Cyrodilic one. There was the first, the second.. You know?
There will be a knew one.

Yes because when you number them that always guarantees that there must be another one that follows. Just like the First Empire of the Nords....oh...wait.......

 

[DrunkenMage]

Yes because when you number them that always guarantees that there must be another one that follows. Just like the First Empire of the Nords....oh...wait.......

I wonder what ever happened to that First Empire of the Nords... that's right they destroyed themselves over a Moot decision.

 

[Dagmar]

How did he comited treason? Why isnt Erikur shorter by a head? And a court mage? And all the thanes, they were there, they saw the duel and they did nothing. No, OH HELL NO, blame it on some poor gateman.

I beginning to wonder if you're actually some kind of elaborate troll or whether you're really this obtuse. Roggvir was a member of the city guard not just some civilian of Solitude. He deliberately disobeyed a direct order from his superior to aid Ulfric's escape after he killed the High King. Even in contemporary military units in the real world this kind of act is still recognized as a capital offense. If you're really incapable of grasping the distinction between the standards to which a member of the High King's city guard is held compared to mere civilians then you simply lack the capacity to carry on an intelligent or constructive discussion on the matter.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I can't say which side would beat the thalmor, but I believe the nord 'spirit' provides the boost needed to do so. The fact that they can recognize the dragon born does it for me:

• Proventus Avenicci (imperial) calls the dragon born legend nonsense
• Balgruuf (a nord) made the pilgrimage to high Hrothgar
• Irilith ( (dark elf) doesn't believe in the dragonborn (even after witnessing a dragon soul being absorbed)
• The nord whiterun guards recognize the dragonborn

This is why I love the stormclocks.

Imperial soldiers call you Dragonborn when they're in towns. Nords aren't the only ones that recognize Dragonborn, in fact the only Dragonborn they always rave on about is Talos. They weren't always loving of Talos, wasn't until he defeated them at the Battle of Sancre Tor. The Dragonblood wouldn't stop Nords from trying to kill you, certainly didn't stop them when they rebelled against the Septim Empress during the War of the Red Diamond.

Proventus doesn't call the Dragonborn nonsense, he says about you in his skepticism about you being Dragonborn. The two well known Dragonborn's seem to be larger than life because of how people wrote about them etc. So when they meet you in person it's not what anyone really expects. Since everything they know is God like. Imperials would also recognize Reman Cyrodiil, he was a great Emperor and he was Dragonborn. 'Culture god-hero of the Second Empire'

You should read the stuff they wrote about Tiber Septim, changing the terrain of Cyrodiil with his voice. How come you're not moving any mountains?

 

[Dagmar]

What threat does US faces? Its rather isolated. But US still keeps a huge navy, army and airforce.

The fact that you make this statement and claim to be a political science undergraduate makes me feel sad.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The fact that you make this statement and claim to be a political science undergraduate makes me feel sad.

I didn't hear about the United States Air Force, defending against the Roman Empire. Guess my history must be off

 

[Dagmar]

Its about space and law.

No it's simply about law. The law is racist and the man that upholds it because he believes in it is racist. It doesn't make him some horrific despot like Pol Pot but it is an evident flaw in his character.

If there is no that law where would they live. Show me a place in that city where you can place a single house. Just one spot

Whether there is or isn't a place for them to move does absolutely nothing to change the fact that the law is racist even if you lack the capacity to comprehend that otherwise obvious fact.

I could go on to explain the concept of scaling in games and how it relates to the availability of space and vacant residences but you already appear to be way out of your depth so it would probably be a waste of time.